153 comments on DrumBeat: August 9, 2008
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
153 comments on DrumBeat: August 9, 2008
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
TOD:Europe
- Oilwatch Monthly November 2009
- Some predictions on the forthcoming Russian-Ukrainian gas 'crisis'
- The US stimulus and "green jobs" for wind energy
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
- The Bullroarer - Friday 20th November 2009
- The Bullroarer - Friday 13th November 2009
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- The Energy Blog
- Entropy Production
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“What people need to hear loud and clear is that we're running out of energy in America.”
—George W. Bush, May 2001
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
As some of you may have noticed, SuperG has activated the <pre> tags for everyone. They are for preformatted text. Put <pre> before the text you want to be preformatted, and </pre> after it.
It will keep the spacing exactly as you see it while you're typing your post. Including the monospaced font, which keeps things like columns of numbers lined up properly.
Testing testing.
http://www.ascii-art.de/ascii/mno/oilrig.txt
/\ /\/\ _|/\|_ |______| |\/\/| \|/\/\| .''`/: :\''. \`'. | || / : : \ || |\ ||| || / o j _\||__/__\||_\_||/___ |___________________| | | | | | | ~~~~~~|~~|~~~|~~~|~~~|~~|~~~~~~treTa.
Go on, give us font now ;-)
All right, kids. You can test it by using "preview." No need to actually post it.
Preview quit working for me a couple of weeks ago.
Two different pc's, operating sys and providers too.
I think preview quit working correctly when the up/down voting arrows were added.
Have you two let SuperG know?
He's not psychic. He can't fix problems if he doesn't know they exist.
Preview works fine. But you can't post after you preview - the POST button on the Preview page does not work.
But you can copy your text after you Preview, hit the back button, paste, and then Post.
I've emailed support with the comments above.
Please don't be too harsh. The picture is cute.
And it's even on topic.
What I don't want is 50 billion other examples of ASCII art posted as "tests."
Is the modifications by Prof Goose the reason why TOD was down for a while today?
PG is not the one who does the tech stuff. SuperG is our web admin, and he made the change.
And no, this was not the reason TOD was down for so long last night. SuperG said it was a malicious attack. Bot-driven, and probably not personal. Just hackers looking for vulnerable servers. Ours isn't, but the traffic was enough to take the site down temporarily.
Hackers worry me. Saw a programme on Australian TV a few nights ago where some patriotic Chinese hackers are working out how to disable the West. Programme said there were several hundred thousand of them in hacking clubs and supposedly they disabled the power supply in North East US a year or so ago.
Guess the olympic games were boring to watch so they made their own fun.
These days, most hackers aren't doing it for fun. They're doing it for profit.
Interesting...the PC I'm on right now got it's first ever virus quarantined and removed by Norton AV last night as well.
i quit the window's world a long time ago. viva la gentoo :P
Monthly Averages of World Oil Production (Crude plus Condensate), With Monthly Average Spot Price:
Month & Monthly Avg 12-Month Avg Monthly Avg Year Oil Production Oil Production Spot Price Thousand bbl/day Thousand bbl/day USD Jan-07 72,823 73,410 $54.51 Feb-07 73,066 73,366 $59.28 Mar-07 73,007 73,331 $60.44 Apr-07 73,249 73,308 $63.98 May-07 72,770 73,229 $67.49 Jul-07 72,905 73,136 $74.12 Aug-07 72,262 73,016 $72.36 Sep-07 73,073 72,988 $79.91 Oct-07 73,726 72,985 $85.80 Nov-07 73,434 72,988 $94.77 Dec-07 73,913 73,050 $91.69 Jan-08 73,991 73,147 $92.97 Feb-08 74,176 73,240 $95.39 Mar-08 74,286 73,346 $105.45 Apr-08 73,901 73,401 $112.58 May-08 74,481 73,543 $125.40Source: US Energy Information Administration, July 2008 International Petroleum Monthly and Petroleum Navigator.
It works! Yeah! :o)
-best,
Wolf in YVR BC
If you can't get it up after 3.5 years, you've peaked :(
Does everyone who knows about these matters agree that those figures are accurate?
That is about the most easily read, concise, convincing argument for Peak Oil that I have seen yet.
Are there any remaining unknown unknowens?
The oil production numbers are often revised. From what I understand, the EIA data is among the best that can be easily accessed (approximately free). How accurate the production figures really are is difficult to ascertain.
Given that the recent crude-oil price spike to ~$133/bbl (WTI) average for Jun & Jul has occurred on a world oil production "plateau" and indeed may have happened during a slight upswing in production, one is left wondering what the price response will be when global production starts to decline. According to WT, the recent price rise is perhaps largely due to a "bidding war" over declining net exports. Net exports would likely decline even faster with diminishing production rates. Thus, sharply higher prices can be anticipated.
In regards to the data, I wonder how many of us on TOD will ever see Peak Oil in the "rear-view mirror." At a minimum, three to five years of production declines would likely be required to prove peak. It's an open question as to wether-or-not any of the agencies that provide oil production figures will still be functional five years after peak, and, if they are still operating, if the data will be freely accessible. There's also the potential for data manipulation (for the conspiracy-minded among us :o) In any event, what this means is that when Peak Oil has/is occurred/ing is largely a personal judgment based on the available information.
-best,
Wolf in YVR BC
You can already see 2 underlying peaks bounding the crude oil plateau:
Fig 1c: a peak in 2005
Fig 1d: a peak of hitherto growing countries shaping up now
I posted the graphs here:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4386#comment-391842
In that case the peak will have become self-evident anyway, even without looking at statistics.
I would disagree that these numbers, by themselves, constitute a convincing argument for Peak Oil. One only has to ask whether oil production has ever plateaued like this before. Reviewing the historical production numbers in the Energy Export Databrowser one sees that world oil production spent the first half of the 1980's in retreat and only regained the 1980 highs by the end of the decade:
Discrepancy between consumption and production represents the uncertainty in the numbers.
The early 1980's were years of major economic and political upheaval throughout the world accompanied by huge jumps in the price of oil. This combination caused a noticeable decline in the amount of oil consumed and, hence, produced.
Today we are once again in a period of major economic and political upheaval accompanied by huge jumps in the price of oil. It is conceivable, though I expect unlikely, that demand for oil could actually decline below current production capacity with a concomitant decline in oil prices. Such a development would cause many to disregard the message of Peak Oil if the argument for it is only based on production numbers or price.
So no. To me 17 months of bound-to-be-revised production numbers do not constitute a convincing or reliable argument. More information about historical trends in discovery, total production, production per well and national and per capita consumption rates are needed to make a scientifically rigorous argument that the availability of oil is about to decline. Taken together, these trends make what I consider to be a very convincing argument that cannot be discounted by a single month's or even year's increase in production or decrease in price.
Making the data behind these historical trends easily accessible is what I'm trying to do with the databrowser.
Happy Exploring!
-- Jon
"More information about historical trends in discovery...."
er...... discoveries have been declining more or less continuously since about the '80's.
Elwood made the point about discoveries, let me make the point about inventories and surplus. Oil **production** could decline because people were conserving, CAFE standards in the US had jumped and a lot of people wanted economical cars.
Most importantly, it could decline because there was a very large gap between production and consumption. Oil went to $10 dollars because OPEC had little discipline and worked against itself, the North Sea was producing a lot and Alaska was ramping up.
None of those things are true today. This plateau reflects maximum capacities being reached, not oversupply.
This is all pretty self-evident, I'd think, and should not be ignored while you seek your data.
Cheers