![]() | Energy Vision 2050 - part I | The Oil Drum | Hurricane Ike and Oil Refineries/Infrastructure Damage Models Thread #3 (21:00 EDT 9/11) | ![]() |
104 comments on Hurricane Ike and Oil Refineries/Infrastructure Thread #2 (9/10 16:30 EDT)
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104 comments on Hurricane Ike and Oil Refineries/Infrastructure Thread #2 (9/10 16:30 EDT)
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GAIA Host Collective
I'm getting calls from people wanting to flee the coast with their horses. Yet my weatherman tells me this storm could be quite powerful should the eye pass over us (Seguin, TX).
Move perpendicular to the path of the storm if you can.
If the track continues to move North and East we may be a good place to take refuge, but probably not if it goes overhead. Not near enough land between us and the coast to kill the winds.
Two things.
1) When's the latest Houston can be evac'ed.
2) When do they cancel the football games?
James
It's ironic, but under the current model, Louisiana would be the safe place to go if you live in Houston.
Yep.
From this shot:
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/gmex/jsl-l.jpg
I say it's Cat 2 now with a bullet.
I also say it's jogging to the N from it's WNW track. And that the NHC's
latest forecast having it stop cold just short of the coast and move to the N as a TS is way to conservative.
The Hogs football team leaves tomorrow PM for Austin.
And friends leave Friday. Someone's going to have to
either alter Ike or the fans soon.
If memory serves, Rita was initially projected to hit South Texas, and it ended up hitting the TX/LA border area.
A reminder of the damage caused by the 1900 Galveston hurricane, as it moved inland (note that it became a hurricane after it moved past Cuba):
http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/events/1900hurr.htm
Mc,
Just based upon the recent experience with Rita it takes at least 36 hours to move the majority out of Houston. But that schedule left many thousands stranded on the highway with empty gas tanks. The additional problem is that it's just not Houston that evacs. There will also be hundreds of thousand evacing from the coastal areas through Houston. Just a guess but I would say evac w/o the 18 to 24 hour trip to cover 200 miles would take 3 days. But I don't expect to see many folks pulling the trigger that early.
Hey Roc,
"Just a guess but I would say evac w/o the 18 to 24 hour trip to cover 200 miles would take 3 days. But I don't expect to see many folks pulling the trigger that early."
So folks should leave by this evening, but they're not going to. Is that right?
BTW-Do you know what the Matagorda nuclear plant
can take in terms of wind, storm surge?
Nuclear plants are designed to handle tornado type winds -235 mph plus. The Turkey Point plant was right in the eyewall of Hurricane Andrew, and I seem to recall that they measured 145mph before the anemometer failed. Most have containment berms and other protective measures that would keep storm surge from being much of a factor.
Take a look at:
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm/info-notices/1993...
and
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm/info-notices/1993...
Key lesson "learned" from Andrew is that while containment and safety systems do ok, all of the support equipment gets trashed so the plant is down for an extended period of time.
Texas officials spent all day Tuesday debating whether they should issue a mandatory evacuation (1,000,000 people) for the Rio Grande Valley, and instead pulled the FEMA people out and moved them to Austin "out of harms way."
Meanwhile, the forecast track has changed.
Since Rita, I've heard a lot of people say "We're staying right here" if it happens again. It was insane putting people out on a highway (and away from food and shelter) when they would have been better off at home. I think it's going to take a Katrina level problem, rescuing people from their rooftops, before an evacuation order is taken very seriously, given how poorly the forecasting has been.
On Sunday they were evacuating the Florida Keys. A couple days before that they were talking about Miami getting wiped off the planet. Yesterday it was Brownsville. I know I'm jaded, but it's just too fluid right now. By tonite they'll be saying Beaumont is in the crosshairs, probably.
The wed 8pm GFDL model now has Ike going directly over Houston. Oops.
The nuke plant is a good ways inland...about 30 to 40 miles at least. No storm surge problem there. Been a while since I drove by it but I remember lot of concrete so I'll guess wind won't be a problem for the plant proper. The transmission lines are a whole different game though.
After watching the latest N.O. evac seem somewhat unnecessary and remembering all the horror stories from the Rita evac I suspect many won't leave. But I just watched the latest loop of Ike. He's really assymetric...the east side is really strong and wet. Even if he hits 120 miles SW of us there could still be some serious problems here. Especially with electrical loss. Lots and lots of trees around Houston = thousand of downed lines.
Wrong, unfortunately.
The South Texas Project is about 10 miles as the crow flies from the bay, and about 14 from the Gulf proper.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Palacios,+Matagorda,+Texas,+Unit...
The problem with Rita was that millions evacuated that didn't really need too (North and West Houston). Katrina was fresh on everyone's mind, and many (including myself) over reacted. That won't happen again. Anybody 30 miles inland is going to stay put. I have family coming in today from Freeport and Galveston today just in case. We've all learned a lot, and while it could get ugly, I'm more concerned about spending the rest of the week with my inlaws.
If you have the ones healthy enough to leave on foot do so by foot, then the evacuation could probably be done in a day or so. You cannot go 200 miles in a day by foot, but 30-60 miles (1 or 2 days' travel) should be enough to find safe shelter for everyone.
That would be like five people. We're talking South Texas, not exactly the fitness capital of the world :)
That said, the latest update of Jeff's Wunderblog should sober up anyone along the coast taking this too lightly.
So true. Statistically Texas is just about the most obese population on the Earth.
[QUOTE]Hurricane force winds will push inland up to 30 miles, along a 50-mile wide region where the eyewall makes landfall.[/QUOTE]
In other words, evacuating to a place just 30 miles inland means you'll almost certainly escape hurricane force winds and, with a little foresight, the storm surge. This makes me wonder why people generally evacuate much, much further before a hurricane, even if they do have a car or are able to get a bus?
PS: I've never been struck by a hurricane in my life, so I lack firsthand experience.
Actually, Texas is only the #15 most obsese state in the country. Source
Way to go, Colorado!
completely off topic, but I wonder if anyone has done a correlation between that map and the red states/blue states...at a glance there is a correlation. (but as I am told, there is a difference between correlation and causation...)
Looks to be a neutral correlation, as both the fattest and leanest are conservative states.