The Oil Drum: Australia/New Zealand | Solving Climate Change without Pain

11 comments on Solving Climate Change without Pain

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Termoil on September 24, 2008 - 11:33pm

I think you have both been a bit unfair to Garry who has tried to work out some of the blockages to getting investment in renewables up. I ahve argued before that money is really an entitlement to spend some energy on whatever you think is good at the time. The super funds have basically run out of things to invest in which return good yields which is why the "financial" industry has invented all this ohter crap to soak up the large flows of cash. It seems to be an eminently sensible idea to force the public inot doing something that is good for them.

Medicare is the perfect analogy for this. Nobody would pay it if it was optional but we all like to use the service when we need it. Forcing ordinary Australians to actually invest in the future energy harvesting infrastructure and transport infrastructure is not that far off track.

Far better to do that than invest in more US shopping malls to try to eke out your 7.72% return. I'd rather have electricity and a viable train system in my old age than buckets of worthless dollars in my super.

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thirra on September 25, 2008 - 2:17am

Termoil- With regard to the super funds - I suspect that a lot of them have been investing in some very questionable areas.Now that TSHHF we are going to see a lot of very pissed off people when they realize that their fund is not only not making them money but their principal is disappearing as well.
The current privately operated super schemes are a Hawke/Keating invention - the sort of rubbish one would expect from a Tory government - Tweedle Dee,Tweedle Dum,Tweedle Dumber.

In the first place,a single national super scheme should have been set up and been required to invest in Australian industry and infrastructure.It is not too late for that to happen.That wouldn't please the financial community of course but,what the f'ing hell do we owe them anyway.

I am not a socialist by any means but it seems to me that when natural monopolies are privatized (eg Telstra)and vital infrastructure is sold off to merchant banks then the Australian community is being set up for a monumental ripoff.At least with government ownership there is some chance of accountability through the parliament.

To recap what I said in the previous post - We do not need fancy accounting schemes with their associated hangers on.We do not need complicated carbon trading schemes with all their loopholes and opportunity for ripoffs.We need a public recognition by all goverments that they are going to have to act very promtly in a targeted way to turn Australia from an environmental basket case into something resembling a nation with a future.And none of this is dependent on what China or the USA or whoever are doing.We also need to QUIT right now exporting our manufacturing jobs overseas.If this means protection then so be it.Australia comes first and last for Australians.If we don't look after ourselves then nobody else will and the world is not going to get any more friendly.

End of pissed off rant.

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Termoil on September 25, 2008 - 9:03am

Can't support you on the natioanl monopolized super sorry. If there is one group of people I trust less than the bankers with my money it's the politicians. besides that if you really want to you can set up a self managed fund and then invest it in whatever you like, renewables or whatever.

As far as manufacturing jobs goes, they are antithetical to a low energy post consumer society. Mass manufacturing is a never ending chore to squeeze out more units of production at ever decreasing costs and then selling the goods cheaper than you did yesterday to tak up the expanded volume. It has a limited life anyway. Waht we do need to start doing is training everyone to have a journeyman trade and to own their own tools of trade and not be dependent on a large employer to have full control over their fate. I know it must sound like paradise for some manufacturing nobs to stand at a machine all day and press the red button when the green light goes on, only to return to his castle each night to be enthralled by the magic plasma mirror on the wall, rinse, and repeat ad infinitum. But most of waht is manufactured these days is unecessary crap that used to be produced in industrious homes in quantities no greater than waht is truly required. How many varities of shampoo do we really need? Why do I need a choice of 75 different biros that take up 6 metres of air conditioned shelf space at Officeworks? No manufacturing generally is no panacae unless there is a purpose to it.

I have argued that Australians should have three areas of technical engineering endevour that we should concentrate on and forget everything else. They are long distance transport systems, long distance communications and energy harvesting and distribution. (Water could be another area that might make my list but I'm pissed off with what I see happening there at the moment with Brumby and his band of thieves from Melbourne, raiding the Goulburn River. Another reason I don't trust politicians.) Within those three areas are some pretty big opportunites for the engineering community to get stuck into ut it requires focused leadership from governemtn and business to seize those opportunities.

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