I think the implied definition of energy independence used by Prof Cleveland is petroleum importation independence. Since we are now on the downward slope of peak oil, we are headed toward petroleum independence without a doubt. We may argue about the speed with which petroleum independence will arrive, but it surely will, some day. So, why argue about whether or not independence from _imported_ petroleum is possible. Of course it is possible. It will happen, and the question is - how much pain and suffering it will cause.

But to mitigate the bad effects of decline in supply of petroleum, we need to do something now. Waiting until there is agreement of everyone that petroleum will not fuel the future, will not leave enough time to implement a solution. Babbling about energy independence might be a useful political cover for doing some useful technical work.

well we are doing what we can to educate and access peoples long range thinking. our megaphone, in the scheme of things is quite small.

And, unfortunately, it is pretty clear that the general population does not react until we have a crisis.