![]() | The 2008 IEA WEO - The Oil Drum Initial Review (#1 in a Series) | The Oil Drum | Breaking News: EPA Ruling - Coal Plants Must Limit CO2? | ![]() |
75 comments on The 2008 IEA WEO - The World Energy Model and Energy Demand
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
75 comments on The 2008 IEA WEO - The World Energy Model and Energy Demand
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- What "Lower Consumption" Means
- Tricking and Treating the Future
- Meeting Energy Decline Part-Way - Potatoes?
TOD:Europe
- EROWI - energy return of water invested
- An interview with Stoneleigh - the case for deflation
- The Future of European Transport: iTREN-2030
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Saturday 7th November 2009
- The Bullroarer - Friday 30th October 2009
- Details of Solar Flagships Released
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- The Energy Blog
- Entropy Production
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“Pessimism of the Intellect; Optimism of the Will.”
—Antonio Gramsci
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
Good comments.
Why does the IEA assume that an assumed shift to more of a service economy in OECD countries would decrease energy intensity by such an inflated amount, to 2030? Do they think that the world, as a whole, will not produce as much, or use as much, goods, proportionally, as it does now?
Because in a service economy you get some other country to build your stuff. The West would use rather more energy if it had to make all its own t-shirts, CDs, cars and so on.
The IEA is probably forgetting that it still costs energy to make the stuff, where on the globe that barrel of oil is being burned or turned into plastic wishbones doesn't matter to resource depletion or climate change.
You can not explain the much higher GDP/oil barrel of Japan versus US because Japan manufactures less than US. Nor can you explain the declining oil intensity of OECD countries because they are importing manufactured goods from China. Even if all of China's oil consumption was included in G7 countries, they would still would have decreased oil intensity in last 30 years.
A lot of manufacturing doesn't use much oil, think of steel( coal), cement(coal) plastics( natural gas) aluminium( electricity). What uses oil? ; transportation especially cars and trucks, air transportation. Rail and ocean transport only uses a very small portion, and in most countries almost no oil is used for electricity production. Some oil is still used for heating homes and offices, but this use is being replaced by electricity or NG.
If oil prices continue to increase, its reasonable to assume continued improvements in GDP/oil barrel, in fact improvements in GDP/energy unit, although there is no reason to think that energy use will decline as oil use declines.
China doesn't have to reach the 12 barrels/capita, because they are building high density cities with mass-transit infrastructure.
Japan uses 5,2 mb/d and its GDP is one third of the US. So if it had the GDP of the US, Japan would've used 15mb/d, while the US uses 20,5 mb/d. It is a difference but not a whole lot, given the population density of Japan compared to US (which is advantagous for public transportation).
Japan consumes 14 barrels/capita. South Korea 17 barrels/capita. These countries are high density countries with high density cities.
Because in a service economy you get some other country to build your stuff. The West would use rather more energy if it had to make all its own t-shirts, CDs, cars and so on.
The IEA is probably forgetting that it still costs energy to make the stuff, where on the globe that barrel of oil is being burned or turned into plastic wishbones doesn't matter to resource depletion or climate change.
At some point the West has to start making things again. The job exportation to China and other parts of the world is not a sustainable situation. I don't see how you could borrow goods forever or how you can trade services internationally equivalent to goods. So any IEA analysis that anticipates the current international manufacturing distortion continuing or even increasing would be based on a false premise in my opinion.
@Sofistek
I assume you refer to my statement that the IEA assumed a shift in most non-OECD countries (not OECD) to a service economy hence leading to a faster decrease in energy intensity in the future versus the past.
I cannot tell what the underlying assumption is of that as it is not explained in any detail in the report. Unfortunately this holds true for many things. Withouthaving the explicit formulas and input figures used it becomes difficult to comprehend how and why the IEA is doing the things they do. I base my statements on the provided IEA texts and my interpretation of it.
It does seem difficult to understand. Assuming this is true, who, precisely, will be actually building stuff? I presume that even in countries with increasingly service-based economies, people still need actual physical stuff built by somebody. Is the assumption that economic growth is going to maintain (or increase) existing manufacturing capacity and, at the same time, increase the percentage of these economies that are service related? I am the furthest thing from an expert on this, but to any out there who are, does that pass the sniff test?
Brian
Yeah, that's what I was referring to. It seems a bizarre statement to make, to me. It implies that the world, as a whole, would be shifting to a more service based economy, which I'm not sure is likely (but they don't explain that, as you say) and I'm not sure would have the effect they claim (but they don't explain that, either).
In any case, a report that uses the completely useless phrase, "at current levels of consumption" (or some variant), is suspect, to my mind. It tries to give the impression that there is no shortage of oil (though a 40 year plateau would not be good, in itself, in terms of growth), when it is a completely meaningless phrase. There should be a world-wide ban on using that phrase on any resource that is finite.
Excellent point sofi. Over the last 40 years the US has shifted to a much more service oriented economy. Doesn't seem to have decreased our demand.
True. Nor worldwide demand. Nor has it reduced oil intensity by 1.7% per year. It seems as though the 1.7% figure was pulled out of someone's ass in order to get the calculations right.