But I watch and I wait, keeping friendly with many people and looking for an opening, a sign of sorts, that they are questioning some fundamental beliefs, losing faith in what they have known, and searching for a way out.

And, this is why I remain a doomer. It is already too late to make the needed changes in a rational way. Things will be even worse by the time society has reached even a minor consensus on just a few of the issues. After all, we aren't simply taking about just energy but rather a plethora of interlocked systems and beliefs. There is, of course, energy but there is also governance, finance, population, food production and on and on.

Simply the need to move beyond BAU is a massive step to fully grasp that few people I encounter can understand much-less accept.

Todd

No disagreement from me.

For some reason I still try. I suppose it's because I'd rather give it my best shot, even if the odds are ridiculously slim. And maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Some may see my lack of belief in the likelihood of success as a great disadvantage. But this is not necessarily the case. Because I feel like I have nothing really to loose and don't expect to win, I am not upset by my own failures.

Think of a football team going for the hail mary pass. Nobody expects it to work, but they give it a shot anyways and, behold, sometimes it pays off.

I keep at it because I want to be able to say to myself that I did everything I could.

I'm also finding people along the way who I think will be good to help with the rebuilding, or at least make the descent as decent as possible, which I actually believe can be quite decent if we get enough people going.

Although I have lived in quasi-urban, suburban, exurban areas and the boondocks, I really view the future from a boondocks perspective since that is where I have been for the past 30 years.

I think Jeff Vail's Rhizome Communities (see his post of February 11. 2008 at http://www.JeffVail.com ) are, perhaps, the most realistic, best case as to how the future might play out.

One of the things about the boondocks is that we recognize our interdependedness, especially in difficult situations. At the same time, the old-timers/true survivors have the skill-sets and resources necessary to pull it off alone if necessary. To put survival in perspective, many years ago the snow was so deep that when my neighbor went to check his sheep, his horse couldn't get through the snow with him on its back. Instead, he hung onto the horse's tail and was dragged a mile through the snow to home.

Further, we all "owe" each other. If I help a neighbor, he "owes" me. The thing is this happens so often, and no one keeps track, that we simply respond when called upon. This is vastly different than "city people" who never develop these kinds of necessary interrelationships.

Let me put this into a real life context. Last year my 4x4 was in the shop and we had a snow storm (I'm in the northern CA mountains) and my wife had to get to a conference. My neighbor said would get her out. He not only did this but he and a friend had to spend two hours cutting up an oak tree that had fallen across the road to even get to our house. Now, David didn't have to do this...but he promised he would get Ginny out and he did. His word, and all of our words, are our bond.

I never saw this sort of thing in other areas where we have lived. But, this is what it is going to take to survive.

Todd

Todd - Thanks for pointing out the article by Jeff Vail. FYI it's a .net not a .com so the address for others to go to is
http://www.jeffvail.net/2008/02/hierarchy-must-grow-and-is-therefore.html

Best

Panda,

Thanks for the correction. It's ironic since I had a hard copy of the article in front of me when I posted.

Todd

Todd,

How it used to work in the older farming lifestyle of my youth was like this:

I helped my neighbor get his hay in the barn. I did it for no pay. He now owed me a 'favor' or some compensatory work on my farm. He did so by helping me cut my hogs.

So you helped others and if they did NOT return the favors? That person found himself alone when he needed help. He was perhaps 'shunned' so to speak. He didn't return favors. They weren't called 'favors' but the practice was very prevalent and of course it had to be this way.

Yes you could make it on your own hook IF you had some children. Having no children made it very tough so you didn't grow much as you could have. You might just make it.

Now if you were a miller or blacksmith or midwife..then your 'traded' work.

At a nearby county the fairgrounds each Saturday or perhaps Monday had what was called a 'Trade Day'. Folks brought in chickens,geese,dogs,whatever in order to trade what they had a lot of for something they needed.

Up until a few years ago this was still held and I picked up a lot there. But I think the auctioneers maybe killed it off for it was all free and no costs. The auctioneers are viewed pretty much as scum by many. Necessary but they tend to feed off peoples misfortune. They now exact a very very high price.

Airdale

My list of "favors owed" is quite long (and often useful :-)

Best Hopes for Urban Communities as well,

Alan