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222 comments on Impact of Credit Crisis on the Energy Industry - Where Are We Now?

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VK on November 30, 2008 - 1:03pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/01/energy-independence-how-denmark-kick...

Comment number 22 and 28 are quite interesting on that site. I reckon we need to really investigate whether Europe really uses less energy and is scandanavia in particular really so independent? I'd say it's hogwash to say they are, they have not found some secret way to beat the laws of thermodynamics. Again if Scandanavia is so great than how come more people don't live there? And why hasn't their model been copied? There's more here than meets the eye.

What about the concept of virtual oil, a LOT of Chinese oil imports are most likely converted into exports for Western Europe, Japan and America. Hence because a lot of manufacturing has been outsourced, a lot of the energy use in America and Europe has been reduced due to this.

Also America basically maintains global security, i'd like to see how long Europe and Canada and all could maintain their low energy use relatively and their welfare states without the presence of the American Military, as they would have to set up their own forces.

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old_europe on November 30, 2008 - 1:24pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"Again if Scandanavia is so great than how come more people don't live there?"
In short: Its cold, dark in winter, and it rains alot. Otherwise its a truly nice place to live.
Central europeans might got to work to Scandinavia, but they'd rather emigrate to the warm mediterranien shores :)

Sweden isnt actually energy indepent right now, they just adopted that plan like two years ago. At the moment they mostly run their volvos on gasoline just like the rest of us.

In the comments you mention they seem to talk a lot about how wind energy is not cost competitive and subsidized. That is true, but I consider these subsidies (in Germany paid by the end user) a very smart investment for a future with a much more insecure energy supply. I rather have people spend money on renewable energy and small cars, and states invest in the development of the same instead of huge military spendings to occupy oil producing countries.

"Virtual Oil" is an important aspect, however Germany has a large export surplus (we still export a little more than China) whereas the USA import twice(!) as much as they export.
I think the difference is really in things like car size and efficiency, car sharing, riding buses and trains etc. Exchanging a Hummer for a VW Golf yields a manifold increase in fuel efficiency and wouldnt cost anything.

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Sterling925 on November 30, 2008 - 11:41pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

If you contend that Denmark and other Scandinavian countries do not use less energy (all types) Per Capita than the USA then you are wrong.

2005 IEA Energy Trends - Kilograms of oil equivalent (kgoe) per person:
USA - 7,885.9
Denmark - 3,634.3
Finland - 6,555.0
Sweden - 5,780.3
Norway - 7,153.2

Regarding America providing global security, well, I think that
A. nationalistic posturing (USA! USA!)in the face of global crises is counterproductive and
B. if you mean that by guarding the oil in Iraq the USA is really just being Mr. Nice Guy, practicing high altruism sacrificing our young for the rest of the world's benefit, you are again mistaken and
C. if you think that choices made by the people in democratic nations in Europe regarding health care and other social benefits are only possible because of US military presence then you suffer from a great and misguided arrogance.

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222 comments on Impact of Credit Crisis on the Energy Industry - Where Are We Now?

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