36 comments on Home Buyers Demand Short Commutes, Efficient Homes (with Backyards, Parking, Lots of Square Feet)
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
36 comments on Home Buyers Demand Short Commutes, Efficient Homes (with Backyards, Parking, Lots of Square Feet)
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
User login
Personnel
Classic posts
Archives
- November 2008
- October 2008
- September 2008
- August 2008
- July 2008
- June 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- February 2008
- January 2008
- December 2007
- November 2007
- October 2007
The Oil Drum: New York City archives
- September 2007
- August 2007
- July 2007
- June 2007
- May 2007
- April 2007
- March 2007
- February 2007
- January 2007
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
- February 2006
- January 2006
- December 2005
- November 2005
- October 2005
- September 2005
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.
GAIA Host Collective
You talk about urban vs. suburban areas. How do you make the distinction?
I live in a suburb of Atlanta. I find it hard to believe that our in-town areas are all that different from the suburbs in the amount of energy use. Our businesses are scattered throughout the metropolitan area, so commuting "downtown" isn't something very many do, unless they work in government offices, one of the downtown hotels, Georgia Tech or Georgia State University. Most of the homes, even very close in, are single family homes, on separate lots. The older homes are probably poorly insulated. Public transportation is iffy, even in the closest locations. Sidewalks are not generally available, so if you do take public transportation, you have to deal with not having sidewalks to walk to the public transit. Also, buses generally don't run on Sundays.
I don't think very many live apartments. If they do, they are probably almost as likely to be living in apartments in the suburbs as the city. Likewise, the percentage of residents using public transportation in the city is likely pretty low. There are buses in the suburbs as well. Using public transportation in either the city or suburbs requires a lot of diligence.
Is your urban model primarily New York City, and a few Eastern cities, or are you thinking about cities that aren't all that city-like?
In this study, Atlanta is the #4 US city on the sprawl index out of 83 cities. The score is lowered by less compact housing, a poorer mix of homes and jobs, poor street connectivity, or weaker than average town centers.
Thanks Gail - yes my model is the classic urban area before before development centered around the automobile - New York, Boston, Philly, San Fran, Chicago and many other cities have retained much of this infrastructure. I think many cities that I've visited like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, have strayed so far from that urban model that they are nearly just a collection of suburbs with only a very small classic urban core. Walkability (usually a good combination of pop. density and mixed use development is a major key to any urban area's efficiency, as is small square footage apartments in attached buildings. If it's not walkable, it's suburban. If you can grow a surplus of crops beyond your family's needs, then that would be a good definition of rural. Suburbs are neither efficient with energy nor productive enough agriculturally.
How far can you walk in 20 minutes--a mile?
Typically walkability is defined as less than 600 foot distance to motorized transport.(OTH, bicycles do extend that considerably, though they compete with cars on the street.)
When you say 'walkability' you really mean walk PLUS mass transit, so this ends up as suburban and mass transit are mutually exclusive, a fine bit of circular reasoning.
A lot of 'walkability' issues obviously are related to zoning and there are areas in cities zoned for residences which keep retail or business use a good distance from a residence. This happened because people wanted to keep their homes away from the 'streetscape'.
By your definition, would those areas suddenly become suburban? Most zoning codes neatly segregate residences from commercial or industrial property and getting variances is very difficult.
Mass transit serves a small minority of the population(far under 50%) in every US city except overpopulated New York City and every seat is subsidized.
Many people dislike the noise, smell and dirt of cities and decided to move to suburbs despite miserable commutes to miserable jobs.
Given the Internet, flex-time and a less secure job environment,things like telecommuting, satelite offices, part-time or a three day work week more do-able and save some energy for commuting(which amounts to just 15%(!!) of total miles per households--45% goes for shopping, 27% for visiting friends/recreation)).
You're talking a lot about consumer wants & preferences.
I'm saying that those are going to change very quickly. I think most suburbs will either get busy urbanizing for efficiency (mixed use zoning, mass transit, increased density) or get busy producing as much food & energy as possible.
Otherwise, they will become the ghost towns of the 21st Century.
I find this interesting as a Canadian. Canada has it's share of urban sprawl, though you tend to find it in newer cities in the west (especially smaller centers).
But what about smaller towns? I lived in a small town of about 6000 for 3 years. Excluding the drive to work, I found I could walk everywhere. Obviously, I didn't walk to get groceries once a week, but I could walk to my pub, walk to the cafe, walk to the farmers market. IT was only getting to work that requires a car.
I've always defined a city by it's downtown. The reason that Manhattan or Toronto are such wonderful cities is because they have a vibrant urban core with kick ass transit. One can live without a car quite easily
I've mentioned this some time ago, but I lived car free for 6 years in a city of 300,000. Moved to the city centre and used the bus for work. Is that not possible in America ?
There are a lot of small towns that are totally walkable. The problem recently IMHO has been that town centers have let commercial development crowd out residential areas and/or people have fled the centers of downtown areas as rents, housing prices and crime went up in small town centers as big box stores drove the downtown shops out of business. Downtown for many small towns is only one Walmart away from being destabilized.
And since I'm familiar with New York beyond Times Square, let me say that truly great urban areas have many, many retail centers and transit hubs. Just in Manhattan there's Union Square, Grand Central, Herald Square, Fulton Street, Columbus Circle, 86th street and Lex on the East side, 72nd & B'way on the West Side, 125th street in Harlem. Then there's dozens of satellite commercial and transportation hubs in the outer boroughs and Northern New Jersey, Westchester, Long Island and Connecticut. These major and minor hubs all work together to create the largest commuter rail network in the United States.
I used to have a five hour daily communte on that system from the CT shoreline, with a few connections along the way. The system is old and grimy, but in spite of this, I always liked the atmosphere. It was like walking back into the 1940's...and it is in fact a logistical wonder. I'd take it over a car commute any day.
I find it hard to believe that our in-town areas are all that different from the suburbs in the amount of energy use
In 1950, the US average SFR was just slightly over 1,000 sq ft (1,040 ?). And the shape was an energy efficient rectangular box (minimum surface area to volume).
In 2006, avg sq ft for a new SFR was just slightly less than 2,500 sq ft and the fashion was NOT a simple box, but complex shapes (more area to lose cool & heat). The # of SFRs/acre has dropped, reducing density.
Suburbs drive more than urban residents, even in Atlanta (from memory & visits).
Suburbs do have a lower % of multi-family housing (almost universal).
Suburbs take more energy to support water, sewer and electrical distribution (because of lower density).
Alan