I would like to reply to this but there is so much angst in the posters comments that I am hesitant.

I mostly speak on TOD of the hinterlands and what I see here in Ag.

In 2007 hay was unfindable and almost unbuyable. The prices were astronomical. A large round bale could be sold for over $100 in Florida and some here took bales to Florida to sell but we ran out here. We ran out real real bad. I used to bale and sell a lot of hay but gave it up as a losing proposition back in the 80's. I even gave away a 24 acre field last year that produced 60 round bales. Gave it away to get it cut but if I had kept it? I wouldn't have owed a single penny to anyone after selling it. I was out of my mind to give it away as I found out when the real crisis hit. Due to the spring of 2007 and the winter preceeding it when all the wheat was lost,the same events shattered the hay crops.

So it goes. Right now all bets are off. I am expecting something unplanned for 2009 and maybe worse.

"Times are strange"? Indeed they are becoming stranger as unexpected events twist thru the time continuum and wreck havoc in unplanned ways.

Some observations: No birds. They appear to all be pretty much gone.
No geese sighted and by now I would have seen many v wings flying overhead. Not a single honk have I heard so far and last year it was bad but not this bad. I live right close to a flyaway. A very big one.

No ducks to speak of. Woods ducks used to overfly my ponds and raise young there. No more wood ducks do I see. Zippo. Nada.

I think someone is surely realizing something is very wrong! But no. Its not getting much play. Just like the honey bees.

We are right now utterly destroying this planet. Way way beyond tipping points. We have no one really to fight this madness.

I once expected our countries youth to mount up in protest and assemble. They won't. They weren't raised in such a manner as to go that route.

We are alone. All of us old codgers. Those who protested in the 60s?
They won't be doing anything for their time has come around and now gone. They can just dream of how it once was.

Todays yuppies and genXers are going to do nothing. They were raised to let other people take care of their wants and needs. They kissed mgmt ass for far too long to view it otherwise. They believe in the mighty gummint.

So be it. Ka has spoken(whatever that is). We have no sinews left in us. It would likely do no good anyway. The tragedy has gone on too long. Too deep it has ran and far too wide.

Who can bring back wildfowl or honey bees or the big grandfather oak trees or the wild nut trees or even stop the relentless cutting and destruction? No one.

Ag is busy stripping out the land. The runup in grain prices brought this on. The dollar seems to be all that anyone cares about.

Airdale-who hears in the background the haunting strains of 'Waltzing Maltilda'....and wonders...

Thanks Airdale -

I appreciate your posts. (I almost said "I love to read them..." but to love to hear that which you observe would be perverse.) There's been some discussion of hunting in the last week. I believe, based on my experiences and knowledge, that folks are completely deluded if they think ANY edible North American creature could last more than 1 season if even a fraction of our current population decided it was time to hunt and gather.

One thing humans do well is to hunt. Our state of overshoot would be abundantly clear in about 2 days if even a fraction of the population made an effort. This goes for any resource - deer to mushrooms, ducks to trout. We could drive any species to extinction in 2 or 3 years. Fantasies about living off game are just that, utter fantasies.

Fried Green Tomatoes ... it'll be like that.

Funny thing is- lots and lots of deer running around here, everybody has killed one with a car, usually to tune of big bucks for repair ( groan!), and yet people who bitch about too many deer DON'T hunt them!

Right at the moment I have three split carcasses hanging in my coldcave, awaiting my work, and a lot more of my wife's work, to put them into nice little bags for the year's meat.

I tell people we eat no meat but deer and chickens. They shudder in disgust, as if I have confessed to cannibalism-- Jeez. I am sure that in need they would eat deer, or for that matter, rats -or students, but not now, still high on petroleum, they scorn anything but fat sizzling beafsteak.

So, I agree with Orlov- the higher we are flying now, the harder we hit the rocks when we run out of juice. So, for goddssake, people, let's get down to a lower altitude fast, please.

But then I keep coming back to that old bad, bad thought lying back there in my reptile brain- maybe people aren't worth saving anyhow.

My lifestyle doesn't include hunting ATM, but I have in the past and probably will in the future.

Some of my community college classmates and instructor were discussing the different taste of deer. I've always had corn fed deer (Nebraska).

One said his brother had cooked up some deer from, I think, Colorado. The deer's staples were scrub brush and what not. His brother thought the meat was great but classmate strongly disagreed - but didn't have the heart to say anything derogatory about the meat to his brother.

Hi wimbi,

re: "eating deer and chickens"

Something I've wondered about...

The agricultural system is supported by a cadre of soil scientists and other specialists who can advise farmers on both organic and commercial farming.

When it comes to hunting and fishing, (and poultry-raising) there's a similar issue, in the sense of the health of wildlife populations - that they need to be monitored, and also, someone(s) have to understand how to do this.

This is a quote from an undated article on the problem of information.

“While humans have places such as the National Center for Infectious Diseases and the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, biologists aren't as fortunate. Organizations such as The American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians, the National Wildlife Health Center and Wildlife Diseases Association exist to help monitor wildlife diseases. But the weak link in the chain is getting reliable, consistent, quality data to these organizations.”

http://www.createstrat.com/muledeerinthewest/diseases.html

And here are some links on the subject, more generally.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/cwd/gametrails.htm
http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/cnwds/ann2_e.cfm
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/FW/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_168752.html

So, the question then becomes: How does "peak oil" and the economic consequences of same affect our ability to feed ourselves, eg., specifically, in this case, how do we maintain our ability to apply the benefits of science to our food supply?

I pause in my little chore of cutting up the meat to note that I am a descendent of a very long line of deer eaters, all of whom lived long enough to get to me. In other words, everything is risky, for sure, and maybe I won't make it past my next chomp on a haunch.

My wife worries a lot more about this sort of stuff so I will somewhat reluctantly pass your good links (we thank you for your kind attention) on to her to worry about, hoping she will not shut down our present cosy relation with those deer out there staring soulfully in the window at their passed-on siblings.

The risk I worry about is getting nailed by the toyota piloted by that boozer at the end of the road.

I wonder about crawfish and nutria. In part because of their habitat(s) and limited human access to some of them.

Alan

This is a pretty good read in line with the current "mood".

"Food Is Different"
by Jim Goodman

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/guest/317215

"The book is dedicated to Lee Kyung Hae, the Korean farmer who took his life in protest against the World Trade Organization on Sept. 16, 2003, at the WTO protest march in Cancun, Mexico."

"Most farmers I know, myself included, have a strong attachment to our farms, the land, our heritage, but it is a life-or-death attachment for very few of us. These peasant farmers are different; they will die for what they believe."

"How could we have let our world slip so far? Why must people die for their right to feed themselves? At what point did the profits of multinational corporations become more important than the lives of farmers? We must get agriculture out of the WTO."

At what point did the profits of multinational corporations become more important than the lives of farmers?

More important than the lives of everyone who isn't part of the rentier class.

If you think about it, we've not only been mining out the last of the oil, ores, and top soil, but even the health of our people. We feed them an all-corn-all-the-time diet, raised with Frankenchemicals on nutritionally depleted soils, and then suck the people who eat this crap into the for-profit health industry (Big Pharma) for the rest of their lives. (Chris Rock: The money isn't in the cure. It's in the come-back.) The people are malnourished and obese, and to deal with their symptoms we sell them drugs that destroy their livers. Then we sell them drugs to handle the symptoms of their destroyed livers.

All so the rentier class can get a cut of everything we do.

The other day x put up a comment in which he said that the key to dealing with peak oil was increasing utility--what that basically means is we need to get the rentier class off the backs of the people, and put the resources in the hands of the many, where they can do the most good. That's what westexas's ELP prescription actually comes down to as well. If we actually did that, I think peak oil could actually improve the quality of life of most people.

Of course, so far we're doing exactly the opposite--at the moment, the government is throwing everything we've got left at the rentier class.

what that basically means is we need to get the rentier class off the backs of the people

Yeah. Eat the rich...or compost them if you are on a low-fat diet.

Thanks Airdale. I don't think I could stand to live with ya, but always enjoy reading your posts :-)

I'm glad you are still with us, for now.

Appreciate your comments Airdale.

To follow on the thread of There are No Birds

I'm writing from the heart of the tallgrass prairie-- the duck factory of North America. Geographcially at the confluence of Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota.

There was no migration this year. No geese. No duck. No egrets. No pelicans. No cormorants. In other years the sky and wetlands are full of waterfowl. I've called around to my Ducks Unlimited neighbors and talked with hunters. There are no migrating waterfowl this fall.

Local thought is that the migration has moved further north. That could make sense with the warming climate-- but this is the pothole prairie. The shallow lakes region where these animals feed enroute. That landscape doesn't extend much further north.

So Airdale- not sure where you are located. But the same observation holds here on the prairie.

I believe Airdale hails from W. Kentucky.

Hi all,

Now this is just one observation, but here in Vancouver, BC, I overlook an urban park with lots of open grassy fields where the kids play baseball and soccer. Three bird species are in strong supply at this park: geese, gulls and crows. Just yesterday evening, as the cool blue light of dusk began to fade I took a walk around the park, and watched the geese take off, group up in their classic V-formations and head south, probably to the wetlands around Richmond. Recently, I took my daughter to visit a pumpkin patch, and we saw a healthy population of ducks in a local pond. Also, bald eagles continue to occupy the forested areas around the University of British Columbia, with a host of other species.

I enjoy the antics of the three bird species that dominate the park--especially the crows as they are always getting into everything, with a focus on the garbage cans. Occasionally, we are treated to some other bird species, more often than not chickadees, and one time recently a woodpecker. From the urban "frontier" on the Pacific coast, the limited selection of birds that I see appear to be doing fine. At least for now.

Maybe some migration routes are indeed shifting in your area...

-best,

Wolf

Now that you mention it, it's unsettling. Haven't seen or heard the Snow or Canadian geese this fall. This is the time. I hope it's just late. Been warm, relatively snowless.

Checking, Waterfowler says the mallards should have started moving last week with the cold, they don't show much goose movement. Still in Canada.

http://www.waterfowler.com/inportal/index.php?env=-map#

"Haven't seen or heard the Snow or Canadian geese this fall."

I've been schooled not to call them Canadian as the do not hold passports.

Canada geese.

Nit pik out

GenX believe in the government? Riiiight.

Seriously. Anyone my age thinks government is pretty much completely useless. Lying weasels employing lazy bums.

Even the stuff government does relatively well (roads, sewers, policing) doesn't get much credit.

We've never seen an honest politician (although, reading from any time period from ancient Greece to Twain, neither has anyone else). We've never seen a government program do what it was supposed to, end when it was supposed to, or be much of anything other than a way to steal our money.

We, mostly, aren't yet sick or feeble enough to care about the social safety net. We don't remember a time when it didn't exist. We know that the "homeless" are still collecting welfare checks, even if they choose to drink or inject it rather than use it to eat.

Rely on the government? Hardly. Cluelessly dependent on it? Perhaps.