Yes, I think that's an element, too. School-age kids are very susceptible to peer pressure. At that age, peers are more important than family. So parents who care about education are naturally reluctant to send their kid to a school where a lot of kids don't value education.

And yes, crime is an issue, too. I never went to the bathroom when I was at school. I wouldn't drink anything all day, so I didn't have to. If you went into the bathroom at a rural or city school, they'd beat you up and take your lunch money. This generally wasn't a problem in suburban schools. Oh, they were just as mean, and just as into drugs, but they had enough money that they didn't have to beat up younger kids for loose change. (My mom used to sew secret pockets into my clothes, so I could hide my lunch and bus money.)

Money isn't everything, though. My kids private school costs about 60% as much, per student, as the downtown schools spend, yet the educational difference is staggering, with the "cheaper" school coming out on top.

Parental support, ability to kick out problem kids, and a focus on academics is the key. Of course, private schools don't support special-ed programs very well (though they may support gifted programs, rarely), while public schools are more likely the other way around.

There is no easy solution -- it's socially reprehensible to abandon any child, but attempting to adequately serve all puts a disproportionate fraction of spending on the marginal children at the expense of the mainstream. Does society get more out of pushing along the top 10%, pulling up the bottom 10%, or modestly improving the middle 80% at the expense of the outliers? It isn't easy (or cheap) to optimally motivate and prepare each individual child.

My high school split the difference. If you chose to avail yourself, you could have calculus, physics, and chemistry. Or you could choose shop and remedial algebra, and you could co-op with the Votech your senior year. Or you could drop out and take the GED, and many did. Only a few teachers really cared much which you chose, but if YOU wanted to excel, you could.

The private school my kids attend, though, presumes EVERYBODY is going to college. This isn't a workable assumption for the city overall, but it's really that expectation filter, shared by staff, parents, and kids, that makes all the difference in the outcome. Still, if you want breadth of sports and specialized electives, a suburban school offers more.

I saw behavioral problems and educational level differences is my recent experience.

This was in a community college in a rural plain state in a trades program that has become more technical in recent years.

This secondary system has an additional dynamic at work which is a result of education being a for-profit business model.

Some consequences have been mentioned on this board, such as students in dire student loan debt.

Behavior problems range from disrupting class while in session to breaking/changing other students projects.

This was starkly evident in the younger demographic - for the most part.

I don't think parents are driven by greed, any more than anyone else.

Elizabeth Warren's research was telling. She found that parents were far more likely to get into financial trouble than people without children in the house. Why is that? If people don't really care about their kids, wouldn't non-parents be just as eager to overextend themselves by buying fancy houses? But that's not the case. People will spend money on their children that they wouldn't think of spending on themselves.

My neighborhood is an interesting example. It's an older neighborhood, built before school districts became such a big issue. And the street I live on is the border between a good school district and a bad one. The line literally goes down the center of the road. On the east side of the road, you go to the bad school district. On the west side, you go to the good school district. The houses are the same on both sides. Same age, same size, same lot size, etc. But the houses on the "good school district" side of the road are far more expensive.

My daughter was teaching high school science at another county near where I live. She had a degree as I said earlier in Instructinal Technology , which meant she was qualified to create lesson and study guide and work on criteria,etc...but she also had her teachers certificate...something that many teachers do not have but are there on a 'temporary' setup and seem to never get their certificates or at least thats the way it was back about 10 yrs ago that I speak of..and teachers were apparently in short supply.

So I went to her school,which was quite large, to fix a computer for her associate who was also her mentor there. I entered the classroom which had a lab attached and in the back was the supply area where damaged computers,lab supplies and so forth were kept.

As I stopped to watch the class from the back of the room I noticed what was written on the blackboard at the front. It said "3 feet equal 1 yard".....I was amazed as these were sophomores. I asked the fella ,who was her associate and also taught this class if I was seeing things!! He said...'No we have to actually teach this as many do not know that'...I was suprised at his response and he was quite truthful in the responses that todays youth are very academically challenged...

I looked over the class. Many were not paying the least bit of attention. Many were sorta 'doping off'. Almost none were taking notes.

So I fooled with the computers. Some were thrown out though they were not that old. He and my daughter said that most teachers did not know how to use them and most when broke were allowed to stay broke.

My daughter later left for another position in another state. She informs me that its pretty much the same all over. An 'old boy' rather and 'old girl' as well network. You go along to get along and if you stir something up you are an outcast.

Trying to do your best is not what its all about.

I am sure some schools are better but of my relatives I have seen some of them go all four years , graduate and I still cannot discuss much technically with them nor current events.

Airdale-I could be wrong,but I think our shool systems have been in trouble for some time now

Its a looong time back but when we moved from the country,where I attended a very challenged school and was taught by the 'rote' method and spelling bees and such, we moved to the new startup suburbs,even then they had coal stokers to heat the burb houses with, and I walked, my brother and I , or rode a bike to the school in the smallish town. Then to the next level was a bit closer but still in that smallish town.

Then for Junior High and High School I was just two blocks away. But then when my wife graduated she was in the 'new' consolidated mega school many many miles from her home and many of her classmates rode buses a long long way..

So how was this 'neighborhood' related? It wasn't for then a judge had decided that the African-American youth were to be shipped from way off to this mega school...of course many fights broke out and so forth.

So if you were from the very poor areas you still went to that mega school...and you got bullies and nerdowells thrown in with all the rest...

Now I am talking 1955,1956 when this happened.And its even worse for my nephew way out in the county went to a very well provided school. The very best. BUT...guess what? They actually used taxi-cabs to bring poor black children out of St.Louis to that very school!!

The judge went rampant in St. Louis to force intergration.

So with integration by force of court...what does the very well off suburbanites get for 'good schools'? It is a dream..and they knew it was that way whilst buying their houses there in that area for it had been raging on for years and years. In fact started back when I was in High School.

Of course I wouldn't move into a poor area with poor schools for my children to be beaten up for lunch money say but after the courts ruling things changed markedly to the 'good suburban schools' that were so highly thought of..

But IMO its the teachers that have created the school 'mill' that I spoke of earlier. That and the courts.

How many parents today go to PTA meetings then? Not many I am sure.

How many volunteer as teachers aides as my wife did? Not many I am sure.

Airdale

in general on this topic...

When basic education (5/6 - 14/16 years) becomes a service like a supermarket where parents can choose in function of their tastes, income, geo location, etc. and others cannot choose because they are broke, the whole, that is National, education system breaks apart.

It becomes like a country club, vs. a street-meet or desperate town hall thing, where the rich stay with the rich, the poor with the poor, and nobody besides few become educated - some exceptionally so for specific profession at top Unis, etc., such as tax lawyer, international trader, ha ha! ..

The system returns to branding for privilege and generational transmission, like in the Middle Ages.

The US and Britain, in the developed world, have the worst stats for social advancement, probably ever since 1960.

(Little known contrast: Afghanistan and Iraq were at one point equal opportunity countries, and had, for ex. far better women’s employment stats, including in top posts, as compared to many OECD countries. Hard to believe, I know, for Americans who have been drilled to demonize others on ‘human rights issues’ - of course the Taliban were, are, dire.)

Son of dr. becomes dr., son of millionaire becomes millionaire even though he can’t count, and ethnically challenged daughter of single mother becomes part time retail person, whore, unemployed, etc. Destiny, a class society, oppression.

The links below are all mainstream sources based on accredited or accepted studies:

Disturbing finding from LSE study - social mobility in Britain lower than other advanced countries and declining link

Log Cabin to White House? Not Any More CommonDreams

Social mobility lower in US and Britain than in other advanced countries link

Structural rigidities in the US and Europe link