<DrumBeat: January 7, 2009 The Oil Drum DrumBeat: January 8, 2009>

130 comments on Arizona Solar Power Project Calculations

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Paleocon on January 7, 2009 - 3:42pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

You're going to require landlords to spend a bunch of money and raise rents? What about the people who complain about the lack of affordable housing?

It makes zero sense to hold landlords to a different standard than homeowners. Just upping the efficiency of new units and new construction is about the best you can do, unless you're willing to foot the bill.

Heck, even the SEER 13 law shifted the repair/replace value point considerably, and grey-market coils are still avialable for repair applications. Unless you provide funding, such changes will take 20 years to roll into full effect.

Much higher energy prices makes it all happen automatically. It's just a painful mechanism.

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Nick on January 7, 2009 - 4:34pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"You're going to require landlords to spend a bunch of money and raise rents? What about the people who complain about the lack of affordable housing?"

Does it really raise rates, if the greater efficiency pays for itself? Don't most of these pay for themselves, if you amortize the cost over the life of the improvement?

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Paleocon on January 8, 2009 - 10:08am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

You can't amortize the expense very long without lending assistance. You can't as readily get second mortgages and low-cost money for investment property improvements, so 20-year paybacks would be impossible. It'll take some sort of gov't structured program to make it work very well, or only cash-flush small-time landlords will be likely to consider such improvements.

And no, the efficiency will not pay for itself, as the lower rents will always win regardless of efficiency. Some places premium rents go for location, but most people cannot see past the $/month for rent for potential savings on energy. They will instead convince themselves that they could use less in the cheaper place and that the numbers for the efficient place aren't "real" for their situation.

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enemy of state on January 7, 2009 - 5:18pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Much higher energy prices makes it all happen automatically. It's just a painful mechanism.

Only if the customers are well informed and rational. The penetration of CFL here in Northern California, where many are paying $.35 KWhr (marginal rates for people who use a lot), is still pretty low (under 50%). Just having cost effective solutions available, doesn't mean they will be widely utilized.

Then think of the typical industrial situation. Costs are compartmentalized. One department is responsible for capital expenditures, another for operating costs. If the manager of the former buys a premium priced unit which will pay for itself by cutting the operational budget, he may still have to answer to the COO for exceeding his capital budget! There is a lot of inertia, both institutional, and psychological. This means that the actually deployed systems are far behind current (economics tuned) optimal solutions.

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Engineer-Poet on January 7, 2009 - 7:33pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

You're going to require landlords to spend a bunch of money and raise rents? What about the people who complain about the lack of affordable housing?

They're already paying for the energy costs (or doing completely bone-headed things like using and refueling kerosene heaters indoors, with occasionally fatal results).  This would be a cost shift, not a cost increase.

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130 comments on Arizona Solar Power Project Calculations

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