131 comments on Upgrading the US Electric Grid - Many pluses but some minuses too
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131 comments on Upgrading the US Electric Grid - Many pluses but some minuses too
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GAIA Host Collective
The "Invisible Fist" of the Market usually pounds something until it dies. We need to not worship our God Capital, and The Chosen Path, The Free Market.
You'll find that the "invisible leech" of a command economy system will treat you much worse. See FSU pre-1990's. I'm a vocal opponent of present so-called free market systems for electricity, but am also aware that the present "fully regulated" model has a lot of weaknesses too, such as a) the higher they can get their costs, the more money they make. b) no incentive to efficiency. c) no incentive to innovation.
Bottom line is, workers need some incentive to work, investors need some incentive to invest. Trick is to use our intelligence to set these incentive vectors at the correct size and direction to do the most long-term good for our communities.
(in lieu of an up-rate) Hear, hear!
The regulated industry model can be made to work, if we can keep the free market Nazis out of the regulatory process. I remember how PG&E operated years ago. They spent money on maintenance to keep the equipment running for years not months. Free market economists would count this a waste, because the goal is to maximize profits on a quarterly basis.
The communist party in the FSU was not an “invisible leech”. It was a chest thumping, roaring, 500 lb gorilla armed with an iron mace, ready, willing and able to smash in the brains of anyone who refused to do its bidding. If “invisible leech” was the best metaphor you could come up with, it seems likely that you are parroting standard propoganda rather than thinking objectively about alternatives to the “Let’s get richer forever” economic paradigm.
Well, it seems that the leech WAS very invisible for a LOT of "good communists" long after the gorrila was obvious to everyone else. Still holds for many.
I'm not clear on what your objection is exactly. I'm certainly no fan of unfettered capitalism mainly because it creates as many leeches on society as any socialist system. The only difference is that in capitalism the leeches are found among the families and offspring of the successful capitalists, whereas in socialism they are found among the minority of working class who'd rather game the system than do a fair days work. I personally think that a fair system should provide an absolutely even start in life to every citizen, then beyond providing free healthcare to all (because most often health problems are not the result of bad choices but bad genetics, bad luck or environmental pollution) leave them alone to make the best of their talents, and no passing of advantage on to following generations. It also seems rational to provide some level of insurance against temporary lack of employment simply because that improves worker mobility, which is beneficial in the long term.
You don't think that a large part intellectual ability and manual dexterity are a matter of genetics just as much as a large part of physical health is a matter of genetics? Even if a society of 100% super geniuses existed they would still need people to pound nails, pick fruit, haul garbage, make clothing, clean the toilets in public buildings etc. Such a society would welcome with open arms people who were willing to spend 100% of their working hours doing these kind of humble but necessary tasks. Is is really justice that people who work hard and dedicatedly doing society's dirty work should be poorly paid simply because of their genetic endowment? (Am speaking of an ideal level playing field situation. The real situation is even more unfair because circumstances of birth often play an important role in economic success in addition to genetic talent.)
Furthermore capital markets (I distinguish capital markets from markets for goods and services) which give people more money simply because of the fact that they already have money can never represent a level playing field, not to mention the fact that such markets cannot function effectively without composite growth of the over all economy and are therefore inherently destructive in a world running up against resource limits.
My idea of a fair economic system has two components. One component is that the only way to earn money would be by doing constructive work. No one should be able to earn money simply by virtue of already having money. Of course one can conceive that people with good business acumen in a systems sense, who are capable of evaluating the potential for success of proposals for new enterprises or for expansions of existing enterprises would be providing a valuable service to society. However, such people should be rewarded for their hard work and intelligence and not for the volume of money that flows through their hands. Once people making investment decisions are rewarded for the volume of money flowing through their hands, then a growth orientation of the economy follows as the night the day. And if you allow people with excess cash to put their money in the hands of the people making investment decisions in return for a cut of the profits, then fairness goes out the window. We need a form of community or public finance. A dictatorial central government is one possible form of such community finance, but I am not convinced that it is the only one.
The second component of my idea of a fair economic system is that people who are very good at performing some valuable economic task should be rewarded by a combination of job security and/or reduced working hours but not by excess economic consumption relative to other people performing valuable economic tasks. This is to say that there should be a maximum salary which the majority of people employed on a full time basis would receive. This is not to say that anybody is guaranteed this salary. If I employ two janitors and I can easily go out on the street and find someone who can do the work of both of them in the same number of working hours, then I am free to fire the two inefficient janitors and hire the more efficient one. But if it is worth my while to hire a janitor full time, he or she gets the salary. A business could uniformly reduce salaries throughout the business in an effort to survive hard times, assuming the employees were willing to accept this reduction and not to jump ship. But you cannot say to anyone: we need you to work full time, but because you were born with the wrong genetics you can work like a slave all of your life and you will still be dirt poor.
You may say, of course that such a system would discourage talented people from utilizing their talents. I have two comments about such a claim. First, the day the you are willing to sign up to be a full time garbage man, or a garment worker if you receive the same salary that you do today, send me a note. I'm holding my breath. Second, encouraging talented people to try to use their abilities increase the total volume of stuff being manufactured and sold is an incredibly bad idea in a world running up against resource limits. We have to find some outlet for our entrepreneurial talents other than trying to sell more stuff this year than we sold last year. As Kenneth E. Boulding wrote in THE ECONOMICS OF THE COMING SPACESHIP EARTH:
My ideas for bringing about a wealth maintaining economy (as opposed to a wealth increasing economy) may well be impractical, but I have yet to read a single line written by any promoter of the "efficiency" of capital markets that they have clue about how to bring such an economy into existence.
Agreed on the need for incentives for investment and efficiency.
Some market critics go too far. Just because a mechanism or tool is flawed that doesn't mean you should automatically throw it out. Sometimes a flawed mechanism is the best choice available.
It is important to make a distinction between capital markets and markets for goods and services. Capital markets are driven by the desire of money to make money, and they require composite growth for proper functioning. There are in fact other incentives for investment and efficiency than the desire of rich people to get richer without doing constructive work. When you invest in a new roof for your house you do so because you desire to stay dry, not because you are trying to make your money grow. When insulate your house you are trying to cut your energy costs, not to gain wealth based on somebody else's productivity improvements.
Everyone know that the Golden Gate Bridge was one the greatest wastes of money in the history of humanity, since any investment of community funds will inevitably be executed in a inefficient, slovenly fashion. This is the reason why our sewer systems, street lighting systems, highway systems, state universities, national laboratories, etc. are completely non functional and worthless.
You really ought to try activating a couple of extra brain cells rather than just parroting standard economic propaganda. If you did so you would realize an elementary fact: Capital markets require composite growth for proper functioning. If I give you money, which represents purchasing power, and expect you to return a larger amount of purchasing power to me at some later date, then that excess purchasing power has to come from one of two sources:
No third option exists. I look forward to you explanation of how such a system of investment will work without economic growth.
My belief is that we need a system of public or community investment, which I think can be compatible with markets for goods and services and a large degree of private enterprise. We need to create a society in which the only way to earn the right to consume economic output is by doing constructive work. No one should be able to earn money simply by virtue of the fact that they already have money.
Fallacy of the excluded middle. The third option is you give purchasing power to me today and I give more back to you over time; it doesn't come from any third party. What I'm getting out of it is the use of more resources than I have at hand immediately.
In the case of borrowing for e.g. a house, where I'm paying more than rent would cost but I get the use of a house and wind up owning it (plus the social benefits of my personal stake in the condition of the house and neighborhood), it's likely worth it; in the case of borrowing for spinner hubs for an Escalade, almost certainly not.
Should people be able to earn money simply by virtue of the fact that they already have a building full of machine tools, or a house to rent? That will eliminate investment in factories and rental housing, and you'll see everything collapse. If you think that government can allocate investment better than private agents with their expertise, you're quite crazy.