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86 comments on Gas crisis: Is Gazprom really expecting Europe to take its side against Ukraine?

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tonyw on January 13, 2009 - 11:42am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Hi,
Can someone please explain what transit gas and process gas are?
To my simple mind if there is a pipeline then once it has been pressurised not much further gas is required other than for leaks, is this correct?

Surely it is fairly easy to monitor the amount of gas being input and output?

I am not surprised at anti russia sentiment, it was bound to happen once russia stopped(?) imploding and benefitted from rising oil prices. The US will naturally try to counteract any russian influence in order to protect its position.

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Syndroma on January 13, 2009 - 11:59am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The problem is that the Ukrainians sucked dry all gas from the transit pipelines for domestic consumption. The pressure has dropped to zero.
Gazprom knows that Ukraine can't deliver any gas to Europe until pipes are repressurized. It expects Ukraine either buy the gas for that from Gazprom (market price, of course) or use gas from Ukraine's reserves/local production. Ukraine wants that gas for free (see the failed declaration).

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Skeptical on January 13, 2009 - 12:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Ukraine burns gas running the compressors that deliver the Russian gas supplies to Europe. This fuel is what they're talking about.

Apparently the gas transit contract stipulates that Russia pays Ukraine a flat fee for transit, without reference to the cost of this process gas. Signing such a contract was obviously a pretty boneheaded move for the Ukrainians, but a contract is after all a contract.

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tonyw on January 14, 2009 - 7:32am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

OK, so some energy is required to pump the gas, this should be fairly easy to calculate. Perhaps the Eu would be happy to pay this small cost to Ukraine?
Likewise the amount of gas to pressurise the pipeline a one off cost, say it is a 1m square then x length 200km?? = 200 x 1,000 x 1 = 200,000 cu metres or at a cost price of USD 400 per 1,000 cm 200 x 400 = 80,000 USD. Probably need to allow for compression so say 30 times?? then 30 x 80,000 = 2.4M USD = peanuts for the Eu to pay Russia directly for the gas Ukraine has stolen/used.

Or have i got it all wrong??

Obviously it is no good paying the gangster regime in Ukraine because they would be back next week needing another top up.

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khimru on January 14, 2009 - 9:12am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Transit gas "problem" is obviously used as pretext. Ukraine does not like to have just one contract under control of Eu. It wants two contracts: for transit and for domestic consumption. And with prices adjusted to make gas for domestic consumption essentially free. That's how it was done for years. Russia does not want this - at least not with current Ukrainian government. Why should it subsidize hostile country?

As for "one off cost" - this story goes around and around: Ukraine just takes what it needs from the pipe - and to the hell with the consequences. So this cost will be repeated over and over. This means Eu and Ukraine will be in constant conflict over this gas. And what leverage Eu does have over Ukraine Russia does not have?

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86 comments on Gas crisis: Is Gazprom really expecting Europe to take its side against Ukraine?

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