SendOil...,

Its an extremely satisfying thing to visit and live well with ones neighbors out in farmland in smallish communities.

I can remember very clearly when living with one of my aunts and uncles back in the 40's...my aunt grabbed up a grown hen and put it in a gunny sack...told me...Son lets take a walk,,we walked down the country land and about 2 miles to a neighbors farm where she was giving the hen to another farmwife. That farmwife gave her some things in return.

We walked back home after we had a good visit, ate some dinner and they chatted a long time.

Very pleasant to interact in a good neighborly fashion. I miss those kind of experiences. Now everyone has some vague agenda that doesn't include such. Some keep bad dogs to keep people away. Some are drug addicts. Some are theives. Some have nothing to trade and don't want to. You can get run over by wildly driven pickups with ignorant teenagers at the wheel.

So much has changed. So much will have to change back if possible.

Working with others. Yes but will they cut your throats late at night to take what you have? Who can you trust then? Its going to be hard to work out for back then we were all 'related' to one and another and trust and honor were held in very high esteem.

Read that last sentence above once more. Trust and honor.

If a man said he was going to do something ,,then he DID IT.

Today they will screw you over for a dime and laugh at your back as you walk away.

All this stuff about 'we can come together'?....yeah..sure.....

Airdale

Airdale,

Lets not oversell the past as something of idyllic nostalgia that no longer exists. There are good neighbors today just like there were in the past. Just like there were really bad neighbors in the past as there are today. I am sure you can remember some of those as well.

My grandfather on my mothers side was a farmer in Wyoming. He got along well with some of the neighbors. Others tried to kill him and his family (the Johnson County Cattle Wars if you want to Google it). He carried a gun on his hip at all times clear up into the mid-1920's.

In the sixties two of our otherwise friendly neighbors decided they liked each other so much that they took to shooting at each other. The winner dragged the loser into the back of his pickup and drove 60 miles into town and dropped him off at the hospital. Just being neighborly you know.

Generalizations are generally mistaken aren't they?

Wyo

Wyo,

Yep everyone sees life different. What is truth then? Of life?

We didin't live in the old west. We lived in about the center of the USA.

Are there good people out here today? Lots of meth heads,crack heads and the crimes now as opposed to when I was a child are far far off the scale.

I won't belabor the point. What I posted was clearly not a generalization. It was my experience/s.

Idyllic nostalgia. Well when one gets a bit older sometimes thats where your reality seems to be. But more and more I think of that past returning as this nation and the world shuts down.

So I speak of it. Much like I guess those in the FoxFire series of books did. All those people in the FoxFire series are now dead. Wigginton captured them perfectly. And he did us a favor to do so before they and their remembrances passed away.

Many here have no clue as to how it once was. A few do. I think I am one of them. I get a lot of emails that are very positive so I continue.

As I replied to another detractor yesterday who spoke of Verificable Facts vs beliefs....this is Campfire and Nate Hagens stated that a lot would not be 'hard data'. ....

So I disagree with Jason and his depiction of 'farming'...when its really 'gardening'. What is the problem with that?

I spoke of trust and honor in the past. We lived by it. I think if you look closely as where you live and the past you might find it the same. Don't know your age but what I wrote is the truth for I experienced it. Did you or are you passing on what others said?

Airdale

"In the sixties two of our otherwise friendly neighbors decided they liked each other so much that they took to shooting at each other".

In Great Britain and the continent this activity was refined to duelling. I love the diversity of viewpoints on this website! And f#*$@ being p.c! It is time for a little anarchy and, as someone has mentioned, perhaps a revolution is needed!

For those interested in gardening the commons there is a good article on land use reforms at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7898314.stm

Go at this, you drummers.

"In the sixties two of our otherwise friendly neighbors decided they liked each other so much that they took to shooting at each other".

In Great Britain and the continent this activity was refined to duelling. I love the diversity of viewpoints on this website! And f#*$@ being p.c! It is time for a little anarchy and, as someone has mentioned, perhaps a revolution is needed!

For those interested in gardening the commons there is a good article on land use reforms at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7898314.stm

Go at this, you drummers.

Why so bitter?

Where's the love?

Every extra day alive is a good day, so why have such a po attitude?

Power Down, you'll live longer.

CA,

Judging by YOUR posts I think you have the roles reversed.

I read YOU as a very very bitter man and screaming out at those on TOD with extreme negativity.

Airdale -hey man,,,if you read WTF I post you will see that I am powering down. I think your msg is getting a bit stale myself. I have only read it about 300 times or more. "Power Down"...

Yup. Yup.

Your way or the highway, as others have said.

A sad and bitter old man, not surprised you view the whole world is against you. Not surprised the youth of today have no use to learn from the elders.

BTW, female.

Sad and bitter? Your are now into character assassination.

MY WAY is when I am head of household and we have to live by somebodies rules. Its not going to be what Oprah says. Its going to be me for I would be the one who does the hardest work and have to plan.

So right now? Yes it is my way. When I was building my 4500 sq ft loghouse was there anyone else telling me how to do the work? No.
So no preaching please. Please go find someone else to bark at.

As a woman I guess that in your opinion this is being MCPiggy but really I don't give a rat's red ass what you think.

Go power down your hubbie instead and quit whining that PowerDown mantra over and over. Everyone gets the message.

Airdale-BTW male

Hey airdale, this thread kinda points out some of things you talk about. Chuckle. Youngsters don't really quite get, that after years on the land folks like you and Todd and myself end up with a large pile of grit as part of our soul. Here on my 60 acres, I am the dictator. What I say goes. You're right no one told me how to build my house. Didn't have much help hammering those nails either. I decide what to plant and when to plant it. There are no rules here but mine. There were quite a few people who laughed at me when I started, now they are asking if I have room.

There are people who talk, and there are people who write, and then there are people who do. We end up to be a pretty crusty crew, life does that. Quite short with words sometimes. Not a real "feel good" group.

But we old guys are still risk takers, not all, but some of us who speak up here, I disagree with some of the things Airdale has posted, and Todd, but you know what I expect if you put us in the same room with some good burbon, we'd have a hell of a time. We could do that even 10 years from now.

I'm a guy who can fix things, like Todd, like Airdale you have to learn that skill, I build what I need. Not always the best but it will suffice, it will do . Tybalt reference there.

So do you always do it right, no, I'm already burning next years wood. Adding it into the dry I had for this year. We got pounded up here this winter. Bitter cold and more snow than I remember. First year in 20 that I have shoveled off the roof. The driveway is like a tunnel. And I shovel it. Getting to be no place to put the snow. So this spring I cut some more, I like cutting wood, kind of like eating peanuts, just one more. Splitting means I don't need a Doc. Last time I was checked I think around 58, I had the cardio system of a 30 yer old.
I actually like splitting wood. The details go away, it's you and the axe and the chunk of wood.

The air is there, there is sun. You breath deep and swing.

Just filled my jim beam airdale, tip of it to you and todd.

I have the stars at night and the wind in the trees and I am a rich man.

Don in Maine

I feel exactly the same, guys. I built the first two houses my family lived in myself. From scratch, alone except for a small crew helping to mix and place the concrete for the foundation walls, and a hired hitchhiker for a week to help pound all the nails to fabricate the trusses. While working a full-time shiftwork job. (I know, a varied history, too complex for here).

To the woman above berating us for "my way or highway" attitude, I can only say that a) such a decision hierarchy was an absolute survival necessity for our family when we were growing up. b) Mom, a well educated smart individual in her own right, also completely agreed with it and never felt it an imposition that I know of.

The reason for the process is the necessitiy for significant and important long-term planning without the time-waste of "concensus-building" or whatever process management consultants are currently pitching to keep spoiled brats happy. The organizer has to know that if their plans depend on a particular fence being mended or a field being weeded by a specific date and time, that the job will be done without question and with minimum discussion. Its a position of respect that is earned by the results achieved, and can as well fall to a woman as a man depending on a family's dynamic. And the woman I've known in the position are often just as demanding as any man, example my grandmother after my grandfather passed on.

You got it man.

As for when I was building my loghome, my wife was always going off on long visits out of state. After 10 years she decided she didn't wanta live on a farm and she told me she didn't like Ky either.

I did a lot of 'off hand engineering ' to lay up 6x14inch roof beams, spliced in place, over 60 ft long and 20 feet in the air. Block and tackle work.Valley rafters same size. Driving 8 inch spike pole barn nails with a sledge.

Airdale

Hey Don(we say hey here instead of Hi),

Well heating season here on my place is over for the year. It gets down to the lower 30s at nite but I got lots of down comforters and so I don't light off the heating stove. I got thru with about a cord of wood. Still got some left and plenty more to gather up this spring.

I too love to split wood. Over the years I have picked up a fair number of double bit axes. Lately I went with one that had more heft(weight) and a bit broader head. With this axe I can finally split well seasoned hickory. Too light an axehead and you are just wasting your time.

Skills. Yes and this is where the younger folks are going to be in trouble. They never used their hands that much. My son is an example. He doesn't know the correct manner of loosening a bolt.I found him once putting his whole weight behind a sparkplug on my VW bug...Tightening it!!!! when I told him to pull them.

Once he took a wheel off without using a jack. He said"you never told me to use something"....ahhh his mother raised the boy you see.

A farmer/landowner who lives the live must have a big kit of real skills. If you have stock you also gotta give shots, pull calves,treat pinkeye, and clamp young bulls or cut them. Know how to build fence, winter over cattle, fix all your implements, be a good welder, on and on.

Jim Beam? Try some Evan Williams. Nice to costly. Nice smooth taste , at least for me. Four Roses is my favorite but only sold in Ky. Maybe Indiana. No where else AFAIK.

We are all rich men who have learned to be content with living well and appreciating the work to make it so.

Airdale

LOL

I am a woman - single mom. I was cutting my front lawn when I first moved over to this area and one of my neighbours came over and told me how to properly cut grass. I listened politely (he's my neighbour after all) but when he left I continued on my merry way. My son - at that time 6 - said "mom you're not doing it like he said" I replied "nope - my lawn, my reasons for cutting it the way I do - nothing he said changed my thoughts on the matter" I hate to say it but I think I am an old coot myself (cootess?) I do any work or renovations around my house - I use my sons for muscle but mostly I design the jobs around my strength. I find I have less and less patience with folks who helpfully come around and tell me how to do things without first asking why I am doing things the way I am. I probably get a bit more of this than you because I am a woman.

I really think some of the cootism comes from being responsible for the welfare of yourself and others. In my home most things are discussable, compromisable, negotiable. But when necessary none of that happens - and it is my word that goes. I have to keep the big picture of everyone's welfare in my head - so I get to make the hard decisions. That's just how it is.

Or maybe not - either way I agree with Don - the sun, the wind and the stars - watching my boys play rugby, the dog snoring in the sun. Life is good

Al

Hi airdale,

My little 'happy post' above aside, I understand your points and worries.

The majority of the time I feel little else than frustrated - pounding my head against the "wall of paradigm shift issues" as thaicoon put it, and feeling like I live among several thousand adult-sized children.

Right now I am considering taking my own advice about moving to a different community. My current community seems too heavily damaged by our braindead culture and there is precious little time for "baby steps" anymore.