Thanks EP. I had glossed over that point for this post, but it is an important point to make.. and yet another reason why electric bicycles/small electric vehicles are a good way to go because the energy conversion is more efficient.
So just to restate the final conclusions more accurately.. they would have actually needed 15 litres or 4 gallons of diesel in a generator to power the concert, or hundreds of cyclists pedalling dozens of bikes for a week!
At least with powering the concert there are other alternatives to generate fixed electricity for such small amounts. Then again there are alternatives to holding an energy dependent concert. In Albury we had an accoustic concert for Earth Hour and the pedal power was spent getting us there and back home. The really good tucker from the community wood fired oven, provided by the Eat Local Food(ELF) group was all the energy input we needed! Our little gathering could have been duplicated in parks and playgrounds across the city or country, with minimal energy impacts.
I hope the pedalling exercise in Melbourne convinced the participants of just how much work is done for them by fossil fuels and just how much they waste on hedonistic indulgences like feel good concerts. A big thumping brass band, pipes and drums or a full orchestra in a properly designed and built amphitheatre, scaled to the size of local communities, may be a better use of human energy in the future of entertainment and won't require anyone to bust their guts pedalling to make it possible.
Your point is well taken, but I object to the shaming of "hedonistic indulgences like feel good concerts.." .. You just described some concerts that would feel great, AND be responsible with their energy use, and their good foods.. all of which would ALSO 'feel good'. Let's put some more topping on John Calvin's grave, already. I can still hear him muttering down there.
It's very smart to do things that 'feel good'.. we just have to learn how to differentiate between addictions, which only make us think they feel good, which are just mediocre painkillers for all the stuff that we feel bad about.. and things that actually do and should feel good, because our bodies are getting what they need. Food, Exercise, Love in all forms. (Grossed out yet? Tough.) There's no shortage of that 'feel bad' stuff which gets to go along unchallenged, because the Malthusians, the Calvinists and the Machiavellians in all of us keep pounding this idea that the stuff that feels bad is the only thing that's real. It's a very old lie, and it keeps jumping back out of the grave, because we keep summoning it.
As far as the concert goes, I would like to know how they spent your hard-earned 50kwh, and maybe design a future show like this with a Supply/Demand challenge.. so that somehow, those who are flipping the flipping switches are tasked (Maybe from set to set, or between competing stages) with consuming as little power as possible and still 'do the job' .. maybe using better acoustics, and acoustic bands, maybe changing some of the assumptions about what kind of volume and stacks of speakers are actually 'Required'.. Lighting, of course.. The music biz is definitely spoiled with energy.. and a good place to make a show of the work we need to do.
It's also the place where artists can work the message so it works with and gets through to its audience. It doesn't have to be moribund and 'weak', it doesn't have to lie and be hypocritical with a 'do as I say, not as I do' undercurrent. It better have a good beat.
As far as the concert goes, I would like to know how they spent your hard-earned 50kwh, and maybe design a future show like this with a Supply/Demand challenge.. so that somehow, those who are flipping the flipping switches are tasked (Maybe from set to set, or between competing stages) with consuming as little power as possible and still 'do the job' .. maybe using better acoustics, and acoustic bands, maybe changing some of the assumptions about what kind of volume and stacks of speakers are actually 'Required'.. Lighting, of course.. The music biz is definitely spoiled with energy.. and a good place to make a show of the work we need to do.
I second that. Here in Jamaica, it's a sound system crazy country. Lots of systems that require an 18 foot truck or larger with 15kW or more of amplification. Over the last couple of decades fancy lighting has also become compulsory for premium events, even those with djs only. Bigger promoters have got into the habit of renting a trailer mounted generator (50kVA or more) to provide power for events since a problem with the public power supply or inadequate infrastructure at the location could result in significant losses on an expensive venture. Back when I was a teenager good music, lots of liquid refreshment and good company was all that was required for a great party.
I am involved in the business as a sound system provider and I have developed a reputation for covering events with less, a lot less. People are often amazed at how little equipment I can use to do an event and still cover it adequately. A lot of operators are now copying this and providing downsized systems as many clients now require this. There are still significant numbers of people who truck in loads of huge wooden spaekers and crank them up so they can be heard miles away only to have the police shut them down for being a noise nuisance, go figure! The paradigm of the Mega concert with huge stacks of speakers sized so they can thump the chests of people at the opposite end of the show-ground does not seem to me to be one that will be sustainable post peak. A lot of energy is wasted making it way too loud at the front so that people at the back have a "good listening experience".
Of course there are new technologies that are reducing power requirements for concerts. Massively efficient amplifiers are now available as are high intensity LED lights that can replace incandescents in certain cases. I think the recent Presidential Inauguration is good example of how to provide sound for huge crowds, with lots of speakers distributed throughout the area. Still, how many events are planned with reducing power consumption in mind? My guess is that it's going to be a whole lot more as we hit the downslope.
The ASPO-guy in me says, you guys are right, it's a good demonstration of the incredible energy density of fossil fuels, and we'd better start thinking of alternatives to night-time concerts with tons of amplifiers and speakers (anyone remember the Grateful Dead's "wall of sound"? and their 700w Phase Linear amps?) that people drive sometimes hundreds of miles to see. To a commuter cyclist and energy thrifter it all looks just plain dumb and self-indulgent.
On the other hand, gotta say I do love a good rock n roll night in a dim smoky (or not) bar, there's a lot of good local talent AND these guys don't require a whole lot of power in that little pub.
The techno-weenie in me says: amplifier efficiencies have come a LONG way in 30 years and they have Class D switching amps now that put out the same power to speakers while drawing far less power from the mains; they simply dissipate much less wasted heat. Similarly, horn-type speakers like Klipsch makes are extraordinarily efficient compared to acoustic suspension (very inefficient) or ported (somewhat inefficient) designs. You could rock a stadium with a few hundred watts (RMS output).
It's also the place where artists can work the message so it works with and gets through to its audience. It doesn't have to be moribund and 'weak', it doesn't have to lie and be hypocritical with a 'do as I say, not as I do' undercurrent. It better have a good beat.
In 1991, I went to a Midnight Oil concert in Melbournes Rod Laver Arena and walked out highly disillusioned with the hypocrisy of it all. The energy used to blast the noise, run all the lights and sell all the merchandise and cheap greasy food was a huge indulgence by a crowd of middle class, high end consumers who saw no contradiction in the message that the band was pushing and the method of delivery. Fast Forward 20 years and the same crowd are using more energy than ever before, living in bigger houses with more gadgets and driving bigger cars to more places than ever before. But they'll tell you they care about the environment, after all they do have all of Midnight Oils old records!
There are so many ways we are inundated in this oily setup. There's only so much you can scrape off at a time, and much of that clean spot gets oozed over again. There is some hypocrisy in it, but there is also just a paradox, as well.
Look at that last 20 years. Pure denial, robustly enforced by an overeager business mentality that believed this was moral, right and good.
We starve; look; at one another, short of breath
walking proudly in our winter coats
Wearing smells from laboratories
Facing a dying nation
Of moving paper fantasy
Listening for the new told lies
With supreme visions of lonely tunes
Electric bicycles are almost as efficient as petroleum-based ones. Yes, electric power can be transferred VERY effeciently to work, but production, transmission and storage or said power take the toll. In term of sheer efficiency electric bicycle is slightly more effecient then regular motor bike and it's not even clear if small electic vehicle has advantage over small potrol-powered vehicle...
You need to back this one up. Where are you getting these comparisons?
After the efficiency is compared fairly, it's also impossible to avoid the question of the notorious emissions and leaks/spills (and noise pollution) coming from Legions of 2-cycle engines. The comparison also needs to consider the 'fleet' overall, since there are some high-performing little gas burners, but just scores of dirty, badly maintained scooters, dirtbikes, etc..
Actually, I have a ton of statistics about electric bikes, because I have ridden one every day and carefully monitored power usage. On a typical day I use 20 watt hours per mile, if I am pedaling lightly (much less than that if I pedal more). For my 17 mile trip, that amounts to ~340 watt hours of power. At 20 wh/mile, the equivalence is to about 1,900 miles per gallon (~1100 km/liter if I'm doing the math right). Just for perspective, Justin Lemire Elmore cycled across canada over 4,000 miles on ~100 KwH.
Even accounting for dramatic efficiency losses in transmission and charging, I suspect that a petrol motor still won't reach these efficiencies. Even if transmission and charging amounted to 90% loss, that's still 190 miles per gallon.
And I like to charge my e-bike battery with solar, which increases the efficiency dramatically.
Thanks EP. I had glossed over that point for this post, but it is an important point to make.. and yet another reason why electric bicycles/small electric vehicles are a good way to go because the energy conversion is more efficient.
So just to restate the final conclusions more accurately.. they would have actually needed 15 litres or 4 gallons of diesel in a generator to power the concert, or hundreds of cyclists pedalling dozens of bikes for a week!
At least with powering the concert there are other alternatives to generate fixed electricity for such small amounts. Then again there are alternatives to holding an energy dependent concert. In Albury we had an accoustic concert for Earth Hour and the pedal power was spent getting us there and back home. The really good tucker from the community wood fired oven, provided by the Eat Local Food(ELF) group was all the energy input we needed! Our little gathering could have been duplicated in parks and playgrounds across the city or country, with minimal energy impacts.
I hope the pedalling exercise in Melbourne convinced the participants of just how much work is done for them by fossil fuels and just how much they waste on hedonistic indulgences like feel good concerts. A big thumping brass band, pipes and drums or a full orchestra in a properly designed and built amphitheatre, scaled to the size of local communities, may be a better use of human energy in the future of entertainment and won't require anyone to bust their guts pedalling to make it possible.
Your point is well taken, but I object to the shaming of "hedonistic indulgences like feel good concerts.." .. You just described some concerts that would feel great, AND be responsible with their energy use, and their good foods.. all of which would ALSO 'feel good'. Let's put some more topping on John Calvin's grave, already. I can still hear him muttering down there.
It's very smart to do things that 'feel good'.. we just have to learn how to differentiate between addictions, which only make us think they feel good, which are just mediocre painkillers for all the stuff that we feel bad about.. and things that actually do and should feel good, because our bodies are getting what they need. Food, Exercise, Love in all forms. (Grossed out yet? Tough.) There's no shortage of that 'feel bad' stuff which gets to go along unchallenged, because the Malthusians, the Calvinists and the Machiavellians in all of us keep pounding this idea that the stuff that feels bad is the only thing that's real. It's a very old lie, and it keeps jumping back out of the grave, because we keep summoning it.
As far as the concert goes, I would like to know how they spent your hard-earned 50kwh, and maybe design a future show like this with a Supply/Demand challenge.. so that somehow, those who are flipping the flipping switches are tasked (Maybe from set to set, or between competing stages) with consuming as little power as possible and still 'do the job' .. maybe using better acoustics, and acoustic bands, maybe changing some of the assumptions about what kind of volume and stacks of speakers are actually 'Required'.. Lighting, of course.. The music biz is definitely spoiled with energy.. and a good place to make a show of the work we need to do.
It's also the place where artists can work the message so it works with and gets through to its audience. It doesn't have to be moribund and 'weak', it doesn't have to lie and be hypocritical with a 'do as I say, not as I do' undercurrent. It better have a good beat.
I second that. Here in Jamaica, it's a sound system crazy country. Lots of systems that require an 18 foot truck or larger with 15kW or more of amplification. Over the last couple of decades fancy lighting has also become compulsory for premium events, even those with djs only. Bigger promoters have got into the habit of renting a trailer mounted generator (50kVA or more) to provide power for events since a problem with the public power supply or inadequate infrastructure at the location could result in significant losses on an expensive venture. Back when I was a teenager good music, lots of liquid refreshment and good company was all that was required for a great party.
I am involved in the business as a sound system provider and I have developed a reputation for covering events with less, a lot less. People are often amazed at how little equipment I can use to do an event and still cover it adequately. A lot of operators are now copying this and providing downsized systems as many clients now require this. There are still significant numbers of people who truck in loads of huge wooden spaekers and crank them up so they can be heard miles away only to have the police shut them down for being a noise nuisance, go figure! The paradigm of the Mega concert with huge stacks of speakers sized so they can thump the chests of people at the opposite end of the show-ground does not seem to me to be one that will be sustainable post peak. A lot of energy is wasted making it way too loud at the front so that people at the back have a "good listening experience".
Of course there are new technologies that are reducing power requirements for concerts. Massively efficient amplifiers are now available as are high intensity LED lights that can replace incandescents in certain cases. I think the recent Presidential Inauguration is good example of how to provide sound for huge crowds, with lots of speakers distributed throughout the area. Still, how many events are planned with reducing power consumption in mind? My guess is that it's going to be a whole lot more as we hit the downslope.
Alan from the islands
The ASPO-guy in me says, you guys are right, it's a good demonstration of the incredible energy density of fossil fuels, and we'd better start thinking of alternatives to night-time concerts with tons of amplifiers and speakers (anyone remember the Grateful Dead's "wall of sound"? and their 700w Phase Linear amps?) that people drive sometimes hundreds of miles to see. To a commuter cyclist and energy thrifter it all looks just plain dumb and self-indulgent.
On the other hand, gotta say I do love a good rock n roll night in a dim smoky (or not) bar, there's a lot of good local talent AND these guys don't require a whole lot of power in that little pub.
The techno-weenie in me says: amplifier efficiencies have come a LONG way in 30 years and they have Class D switching amps now that put out the same power to speakers while drawing far less power from the mains; they simply dissipate much less wasted heat. Similarly, horn-type speakers like Klipsch makes are extraordinarily efficient compared to acoustic suspension (very inefficient) or ported (somewhat inefficient) designs. You could rock a stadium with a few hundred watts (RMS output).
Dick Lawrence
In 1991, I went to a Midnight Oil concert in Melbournes Rod Laver Arena and walked out highly disillusioned with the hypocrisy of it all. The energy used to blast the noise, run all the lights and sell all the merchandise and cheap greasy food was a huge indulgence by a crowd of middle class, high end consumers who saw no contradiction in the message that the band was pushing and the method of delivery. Fast Forward 20 years and the same crowd are using more energy than ever before, living in bigger houses with more gadgets and driving bigger cars to more places than ever before. But they'll tell you they care about the environment, after all they do have all of Midnight Oils old records!
It's understandable.. we're soaking in it.
There are so many ways we are inundated in this oily setup. There's only so much you can scrape off at a time, and much of that clean spot gets oozed over again. There is some hypocrisy in it, but there is also just a paradox, as well.
Look at that last 20 years. Pure denial, robustly enforced by an overeager business mentality that believed this was moral, right and good.
Electric bicycles are almost as efficient as petroleum-based ones. Yes, electric power can be transferred VERY effeciently to work, but production, transmission and storage or said power take the toll. In term of sheer efficiency electric bicycle is slightly more effecient then regular motor bike and it's not even clear if small electic vehicle has advantage over small potrol-powered vehicle...
You need to back this one up. Where are you getting these comparisons?
After the efficiency is compared fairly, it's also impossible to avoid the question of the notorious emissions and leaks/spills (and noise pollution) coming from Legions of 2-cycle engines. The comparison also needs to consider the 'fleet' overall, since there are some high-performing little gas burners, but just scores of dirty, badly maintained scooters, dirtbikes, etc..
Bob
Interesting claim. Got proof?
Actually, I have a ton of statistics about electric bikes, because I have ridden one every day and carefully monitored power usage. On a typical day I use 20 watt hours per mile, if I am pedaling lightly (much less than that if I pedal more). For my 17 mile trip, that amounts to ~340 watt hours of power. At 20 wh/mile, the equivalence is to about 1,900 miles per gallon (~1100 km/liter if I'm doing the math right). Just for perspective, Justin Lemire Elmore cycled across canada over 4,000 miles on ~100 KwH.
Even accounting for dramatic efficiency losses in transmission and charging, I suspect that a petrol motor still won't reach these efficiencies. Even if transmission and charging amounted to 90% loss, that's still 190 miles per gallon.
And I like to charge my e-bike battery with solar, which increases the efficiency dramatically.
I have lots more of this kind of geeky stuff on my website, e.g. https://www.cycle9.com/blog/c9blog.php?id=6919001179472611402