<Drumbeat: May 9, 2009 The Oil Drum Transitioning to A Society of Sloth?>

42 comments on Vinod Khosla at Milken Institute: Interview Excerpts

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kdolliso on May 9, 2009 - 12:06am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

DIYer,

The Sugar Cane land is about a thousand miles south of the Rain Forest.

They have 150 Million Acres of Fertile land lying fallow in the Cerrado. They farmed 58 Million Acres in the Cerrado in beans in 2003. In 2008 they planted 53 Million Acres in Beans.

They log the Rainforest to get . . . wait for it . . . "Logs." An acre of rainforest can have up to 150 different types of hardwoods, and they are incredibly valuable. Usually, after logging, someone will turn cattle loose on it for a couple of years to attain "homesteading" rights. The rainforest land is very infertile, and usually no one attempts to farm it for more than a year, or two.

BTW, they're making progress against deforestation. The last I saw it was down about 60% over the last decade.

As for "fertilizer:" Cane doesn't require much. It requires a lot of water, but they Have a lot of water.

It's not quite the "perfect" deal it's made out to be by the anti-corn faction, but it IS sustainable, and they do have an incredible amount of fallow land.

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paal myrtvedt on May 9, 2009 - 8:44pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Why am I not surprised ? Kdolliso-guess-book :

"They have 150 Million Acres of Fertile land lying fallow in the Cerrado"

My -myrtvedt's calculator computes this acerage in at 7.1% of Brazils total land area.
But --- CIA-factbook : Brazil arable land: 6.93%

Pick up the phone Kdolliso and tell CIA that you have discovered some more arable land - you know "fallow land" means ... pick one
1-Land left unseeded during a growing season.
2-The act of plowing land and leaving it unseeded.
3-The condition or period of being unseeded.

now Kdolliso , which is it ? 1, 2 or 3.
This is very good news for Brazil... Or are you just citing Brazil arable land as Fallow ??
You are very easygoing on facts Kdolliso. Very Helium, if I may say !

and then you have this one, can anyone understand this, I mean English speakers ?

BTW, they're making progress against deforestation. The last I saw it was down about 60% over the last decade.

down, what down ..? has 60% or 40 % grown back or ... is it less cutting, or maybe is it by some sort of volume ... or export is down perhaps ...

NO - I don't think anything is down UNTIL YOU PROVE IT. And when you do, still I can not BELIEVE you - due to your very lousy track record -

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kdolliso on May 9, 2009 - 9:08pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Brazil is approx 3,300,000 sq miles. 2,112,000,000 Acres.

The Cerrado (the world's largest savannah) covers 23% of Brazil's land area. Or, 485,760,000 Acres.

The main crop is soybeans. They planted 53,000,000 acres in 2008. That leaves 432,000,000 acres of Savannah. You have a hard time believing there are 150 Million Acres lying fallow, there?

I'll try to find the quote from Silva Lula, the President of Brazil.

The Cerrado

Okay, they CUT DOWN 60% Less trees in 08' than they did in 98'. will that do it?

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kdolliso on May 9, 2009 - 9:22pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Okay, here:

The cerrado has an area of 207 million hectares, or 24% of the Brazilian territory, being 139 million areas on which it is possible to produce, according to the Embrapa. Currently, 14 million hectares are farmed with annual plants, like soy, cotton and maize, another 3.5 million are occupied by perennial crops, like coffee and fruit, and 60 million are used for cultivated grazing land.

This leave 175 Million Acres, available.

Brazil - The Cerrado

Jeez, Paal, Google is just full of this "Brazil" stuff.

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paal myrtvedt on May 9, 2009 - 9:46pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

you are just going extremely astray here .... come back to court !
Please prove this excessive - still not documented - claim.

They (Brazil) have 150 Million Acres of Fertile land lying fallow in the Cerrado

You may also back your "60% down" claim if you can, but that one is actually outside my sphere of interest.

Why are YOU jezzzing ? I'm am the one who should do that.

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paal myrtvedt on May 9, 2009 - 9:30pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Are you slow ? CIA factbook over your input ANY DAY .......
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2097.... (SKIP DOWN TO .... ehhh Brazil and scream out loud to yourself)

Brazil arable land: 6.93%
permanent crops: 0.89%
other: 92.18% (2005)

You see .... other lands in Brazil is stated to be 92,18% . And none of that is FALLOW because fallow is RESTING ALREADY ARABLE.

The Cerrado covers 23% of Brazil's land area ??? so.... ? well it's n ot arable per see.
If I tell you the size of Antartica or the Sahara dessert, would that prove anything about Brazils arable land ? I see you just continnue your undocumented and erroneous "methods" - it's a pity

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kdolliso on May 9, 2009 - 9:38pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Here ya go, straight from the horse's mouth

President Luiz Ignacio Lula Da Silva

Lula rejected arguments that biofuels reduce the amount of land available for food production, noting that Brazil has 60 million hectares of unused grasslands that have already been deforested and no longer serve as pasture for livestock but can be "recuperated" for the cultivation of sugar cane and oilseeds to produce biodiesel.

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kdolliso on May 9, 2009 - 9:58pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Uh, Paal, old buddy. If you subtract 0.89 from 6.93 and multiply the difference times 2112 you come out with 127 Million Acres.

The CIA has a pretty "tight" definition of "arable." The definition many use is "suitable for agriculture." Agriculture includes, in most definitions, grazing, rowcropping, truck farming, orchards, etc.

The CIA seems to limit arable to "ready to plant," or somesuch.

BTW, the Ag minister, when referring to the country as a whole came up with, IIRC, 400 Million Acres that could, without cutting down a single tree, and, maintaining their production of other agricultural products, be planted in energy crops.

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paal myrtvedt on May 9, 2009 - 10:47pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

alright fine! It seems to be two sorts of truths out there. One real and one pending. I will stick to reality for some more time - where as you can dream about that area for ethanol.

I had a fast skimming in Wikipedia on that Cerrado area and the prospects are not very good long haul ... The soils are generally very old, deep, and naturally nutrient poor, but it could be made fertile by appropriate additions of phosphorus and lime... and other fertilizers and pest limiters.
Remember this is gonna constitute a grand , if not insurmountable task , remember you are talking about 7 % NEW and ADDITIONAL agro-area of Brazil here ... good luck to all involved, they'll need it .. you and Brazil need "totoneila"'s help to give directions on NPK and more ...

The Cerrado is one of the most threatened ecosystems in Brazil, suffering effects of the agricultural activities ... I see only bad news here.

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kdolliso on May 9, 2009 - 10:59pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

It's a Savannah, Paal. Almost 3 times the size of Texas. Sparsely populated, and lightly farmed.

Heck, they, actually, grew Less soybeans, there, in 2008 than they did in 2003. 53 Million Acres. Out of about 485 Million Acres.

It's a Vast Country, Paal, in a Vast World.

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42 comments on Vinod Khosla at Milken Institute: Interview Excerpts

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