116 comments on DrumBeat: May 17, 2009
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116 comments on DrumBeat: May 17, 2009
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The Pacific Institute is linked in that NYT story, they have this study on their site: Desalination--W ith a Grain of Salt, A California Perspective. Table on page 55 suggests that desalination costs almost 9 times as much as extraction of groundwater.
Funny thing but the other day I was looking at a 3 year old TOD piece on minerals and the comments were almost entirely off topic. The good ol' days! Ugo's pieces are chock full of relevant info though. Recently someone related the woes of a woman who was trying to solve water problems for some south CA city - Santa Barbara? - and described a real logistics/red tape nightmare. Think she was trying to get them to bankroll a desalinization plant.
Figure 18 on page 55 graphs energy requirement not costs. The cost and energy requirement of groundwater only matters if groundwater exists.
Good point but you entirely miss the point. And that point is; can desalinated water replace groundwater where no groundwater exist, or where groundwater is extremely scarce? At which time we must consider the cost of desalinated water with the cost of groundwater where it does exist.
The answer of course depends on what you are using it for. If you are using it for industrial or household use, then it can. But if you are using it to irrigate farms then it is obviously way too expensive.
Ron P.
The federal government spends $2.00 to make a cubic meter of water that they sell to a farmer for a nickel. Why would that change?
Excellent! It is a very good thing that water obtained from desalinization will cost nine times what extracting ground water would. It is to the better that there is little ground water to extract as well. Why? Water needs to be priced to reflect its true costs, including the externalities of the costs to the environment, both short and long-term. Let the government refuse permits for ground water wells and make the consumers (residential, business/industry, and agricultural) pay for the expensive water from desalination. The government should simultaneously subsidize water-saving technologies, mandate xeriscaping, and heavily penalize water wastage.
The amount of water used to make every product sold should be mandated to be listed on the packaging/bill of sale/on company's web sites. The population needs to be educated that there is no free lunch, and that over-population and over-consumption is not sustainable and will not be condoned by society. For those who would squeal about their liberties being compromised, I would invite them to walk their talk about personal responsibilities to society and exercise some values which look beyond their personal greed and support welfare of the herd/tribe.
If gasoline and diesel were nine times their current price, then we would see all kinds of positive, energy-use-reducing measures as well. Walking, biking, taking the bus to work and to run errands, a general slowing down of the pointless pace of American society. It would cure the disease that one of my relatives called 'Having a gasoline @$$'...as in, "Joe is always running up and down the road making trips for nothing, just to get out...he has a gasoline @$$."
I just returned from D.C. (business trip), and once again traveled exclusively by the Metro and by walking. Too bad it takes so much energy/time/money to build those. It certainly seems that CNG or electric buses of various sizes are much less expensive and more flexible for routing, but stopping every block for lights and to pick up one person (or just stopping for no reason) makes them slower than subways. A combination of local rotators and cross-town expresses seems to be in order, as well as perhaps more yet smaller 'busses'...and that is probably what exists in many places...I'll have to investigate. Albuquerque sells annual bus passes for $300 and some bucks...maybe when I exit the rat race I will go that route.
Upkeep on cars is a pain in the rear...another reason for a paradigm of community electric 'zip cars'...swipe of wave your key card and rent them as required for specific little trips. Commute with friend and family and take turns on whose card gets debited.
There are ways to retain reduced sustainable mobility without going back to the stone age of doomerism...but there is a lot of glass that will have to be broken...vested interests will either have to wither away or be swept aside for the common good. Attitude changes are in order as well...people's love affair and self-identification/self-worth being represented by the style and horsepower of their cars will need to change...and this is from a marketing major who has seen the light. I also am a vet who happens to think (and have for some time) that war and war machines have very limited uses and that we should devote commensurately limited resources to their procurement and maintenance.
...desalination costs almost 9 times as much as extraction of groundwater.
But what if there is no groundwater?
Santa Barbara built a desal plant just as a drought was ending, never turned it on, and sold much of it (leaving aside the concrete structure and some piping) several years later. I do not think the city will build another one.
I have some additional information in regards to the desalination piece (http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5155) I wrote for TOD March 2.
Catalina Island has a small desal plant operated by Southern California Edison. According to the CPUC (http://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/64-W.pdf) the plant provides 25% of the Island's water but 70% of its total electricity usage.
The water rates paid by consumers are roughly $2000/AcreFoot (326,000 gallons/AF) for up to 2500 gallons. $5000/AF from 2500 to 10,000 gallons and $7200 over 10,000 gallons. Obviously Catalina has few options. However, California has barely tapped its options. The only "good" thing to be said about ocean desalination is that it will force prices higher which will bring about additional conservation--ultimately doing what the water board members don't seem to be able to do--by pricing water appropriately.
Does this sound like the kind of business model that will attract investors? Only those who are also investing in expanding airports, widening highways, and ski resorts.