How strange. Despite the effect the recent spike in oil prices had on efficiency of new cars? Despite the European example? Well, good luck to you with the soft paternalism of "education".

I would change 'lifestyle' by directly limiting consumer choice. Nobody has a 'right' to the mistake of buying an inefficient car. It impacts society at large.

The Europeans pay a lot in taxes for passenger cars that get average of 44 mpg which is a gain of 20% over the last 30 years. This is not tremendous progress. Instead it shows that under the heaviest taxes the economic impetus to improve efficiency is weak at best.

Now sure, it may be easier for the Europeans to do this. The continent is more densely populated, and development has historically been more clustered in towns. Public transport is undeniably better. But whether this is a result of their high taxes is debatable.

Schipper said the European gas taxes were instituted in the 1920's, primarily as a luxury tax on automobiles, which were then mostly toys for the rich.

The relatively vast network of rail lines were already laid, and gasoline tax revenue was directed to general state coffers. Even today, gas taxes go to the state's general budget and are not specifically marked for mass transit or other environmental projects.

Still, he believes the high taxes have encouraged people to live closer to city centers and to buy cars that get better mileage.

"If gasoline was always expensive, you have to conclude that some of that had an impact," he said. "What Europe realized is they could steer consumption, not just raise money."

Others aren't so convinced.

Denny Ellerman, a professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Sloan School of Management, also noted that the rail lines were already built before the gas tax. He also pointed to the terrible auto congestion in cities like London and Paris, and that Europeans don't appear to be deterred from heading out to the suburbs, which require a longer commute.

Ellerman said urban sprawl, while not matching the extent of the U.S., is increasing. He said it has yet to reach American levels - not because of higher fuel prices- but due mainly to higher land prices and lower income.

As far as instituting a bigger gas tax in this country goes, he wasn't for it.

He said most everyone has to use gas, and taxing it would hit the poor the hardest.

Ellerman also thought there were too many other variables for a gas tax to result in lower wholesale prices. Supplier nations like OPEC could simply cut production, or other nations could take advantage of falling demand and prices in the U.S. to use more themselves.

So could a gas tax result in lower wholesale prices and the resulting transfer in money to the government from oil companies? "That's absolutely fantastic thinking," he said.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/21/news/international/europe_gas/index.htm

Have the politicians lower other taxes with the same amount. It's up to you, the people.

Shirley, you must be joking.

Because all politicians are bought by the Big Oil?

THEY don't need to buy ALL of them.
Maybe some of them are too stupid to demand bribes/campaign contributions(yeah, right).

With punitive prices, demand diminishes and lifestyle changes are accomplished.

You have a libertarian perspective: miraculous but simplistic laws of supply and demand ruling human behavior.

I can see why you can believe in unlimited atomic power.

Are you sure? A more efficient nation doesn't have much to curb.

A more efficient nation doesn't have much to curb but it also doesn't have a large need to support. In a world of $150+ per barrel oil I would rather live in a nation that explores for and produces large amounts of oil but only consumes 10million barrels per day rather 19million (approximate current US consumption). The 9 million we used to consume can be sold elsewhere.

Ah FarmerMac,

Well it may be that the Germans are idiots.They are fixing to shut down thier existing nuclear capacity and it looks like they will be depending on the FSu and OPEC for thier survival.Do you think the Russians REALLY like the Germans?-not that we are whole lot smarter.--fm

The Germans are well known for their financial conservatism so I figured they had scrutinized their plan which I think is a good way to get guzzlers off the road and to stimulate the economy.
The only defect is that it appears to be a deal directly between the consumer and the government with out a middleman markup and that's SOCIALISM.

I notice that you skip over the fact that Uncle Sam is broke and that we may be printing enough funny money to bring about the real crash by means of said funny money alone.--fm

I don't get why it is so terrible for the government to print money. We need to print money
to lubricate the economy. We've had a mild case of inflation only once since the government started up the presses(caused by oil addiction) and it lasted only 2 years. Meanwhile we've had major deflation around the world.

You seem to worry about a lot about unlikely, looney stuff(is Obama is going to let Hugo Chavez sleep in the Lincoln bedroom).

If the fact that you get an income tax credit for buying a new car puts me in an effectively higher bracket than previously in relation to you (unless I also buy a new car)does not make sense to you,I suppose you don't understand taxes very well.--fm

More of your very weird worries. How does me taking a tax credit put you into a higher tax bracket? Do you actually do your own taxes? Do you pay any taxes?
Crazy!!

A very great part of our troubles are due to the fact that we have a tax system that encourages wasteful and uneconomic spending.I fail to see that virtue has anything to do with this issue,except that by VIRTUE of a tax credit of say 15 percent of the price of a thirty thousand dollar car you get a gift valued at 3000 bucks-assuming that you bite of course.And that of course means a little bit bigger slice of the pie for you,at everyone else's expense,.--fm

US personal tax rates are lower than most OEDC countries and corporate tax rates are somwhat higher but Japan has about the same rate that we do and their corporations are doing pretty well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

Ever notice all those Yankees up in Michigan get $.73 on a dollar they send to Washington while y'all in North Carolina get $1.08.

And you have the GALL to complain about helping Detroit in an economic disaster. Typical ingrate.

http://www.nemw.org/taxburd.htm

Three thousand spent on subsidizing a new car purchase is three thousand that can't be spent on for example research in non chemical means of pest control in food crops,or home health care for my aged mother.

Can you be honest for once? You just want your bleeding tax cuts and forget the rest.

I understand very well the possible benefits of subsidizing new tech such as the hybrid car,but that is not the same thing as propping up a bankrupt and hopelessly decrepit business.In the real world things have a useful life span,and they die.Something else assumes the niche so vacated.

Hopelessly decrepit businesses like dairy farmers (or better tobacco farmers) who are going bust at record rates.

Do you or does anyone else believe that if GM and Chrysler cease to exist that somebody more capable will buy up the wreckage and be building new cars and trucks before the current unsold glut is cleared off the lots?

Because it's hard to build a huge complex industry, they don't just spring up out of the ground. The wreckage is from a system of financing to help people buy cars--in my example, I'm helping people buy cars directly from the government. The damage is to the car workers and yes car dealers who worked hard to build better lives. I notice you didn't mention them while harping on Uncle Sam.

I'm not broke,and I made a conscious choice many years ago to live somewhat frugally in order to live in my camper in the woods for a few months at a stretch reading good books and fishing rather than working my butt off FIFTY WEEKS so I could afford to stay in the woods in a camper for a couple of weeks annually.Jealous? XXXXed off is more like it that the people who had the cake and ate it now want more of my bread.We don't have a lot of cash, but we do have the skills and material resources to survive if tshtf,which has been predicted to have a 49percent chance of happening by Jared Diamond.You might enjoy his books.He is held in the highest possible esteem by most of the regulars here.I would not trade my life for the life of an auto worker,evenup.I do have a great deal of respect for them as individuals holding down dreary mind nunbing jobs.

(When tshf I fully expect y'all to go lootin' and to celebrate your moment of triumph with a little good ol' boy mayhem.)

We have been living way past our means for a long time.If you want to stimulate the economy with more deficit spending,why not just lower every taxpayers withholding rate?That would distribute the money much more equitably across the economy.

You're talking about payroll taxes(7.6% workers, 14.1% for self-employed) most of which
which go to your (and your mother's) social security and medicare.
What kind of baby are you?

Fifty five gallons of oil to manufacture a car?According to the iron and steel industry it takes over TWO barrels of oil to manufacture ONE ton of steel.Not a CAR mind you,but the STEEL used to MAKE the car.And even a small car has about a ton and a half.

Fine, add in 84 gallons of oil to 55 gallons and you get only 129 gallons of energy in a new car--when the average car burns 600 gallons of energy every year. A hybrid would reduce that by half in one year.

Your last comment seems to reveal your real feelings when you mention thieving bankers and then say the auto bailout is nothing,but actually it is more of the same.Do you by any chance have a bigger than average stake in Detroit?

No, I buy hybrid Japanese cars but I wish I could buy hybrid US cars instead. The hybrid was a good idea that was developed here in the US.

http://www.hybridcars.com/history/the-great-hybrid-car-cover-up-of-74.html

As a matter of fact I read the New york Times online daily,as well as the Washington Post.When I listen to the radio in the house it is BBC London on the net.My news bookmarks include a dozen major domestic news papers,about twenty environmental sites,and half a dozen foreign language news magazines such as Der Spiegel,in english of course.In the car it's NPR courtesy of Wake Forest University-except when Rushbo is on,cause he does do a ripsnorting old timehellfire and brimstone preacher sort of job of presenting the opposite point of view.HE IS OFTEN WRONG,but I believe it it important to know how his followers are thinking,and he is imo far more entertaining than pop music or athletic contests.He makes sure that people know about such astoundingly stupid affairs as the afone publicity flyover.He even turns up an interesting scandal once in a while, and nobody is better at exposing hypocrisy-assuming of course that the hypocrite is a democrat.Without Limbaugh and talk radio a very substantial number of people would be deprived of a readily accessible forum,and we might forget that our leaders are not descended from the stars.

Okay, you've convinced me how witty and urbane you really are but seriously, Rushbo?

Rushbo appeals to the really stupid prejudices of rural gentlefolk like any good con man.( You have to admire that.)

Limbo is a prescription drug addict, a racial bigot and a sex tourist(also the titular head of the GOP). How does this entitle him to a multimillion dollar gig sitting on his ass everyday?

Now how in the WORLD...could Rushbo be a hypocrite?

No, the real hypocrites are the folks who think Limbo is a 'real American'.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0706062rush1.html

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/10/10/rush.limbaugh/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh

Racist Rush Limbaugh Quotes

1. I mean, let’s face it, we didn’t have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I’m not saying we should bring it back; I’m just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark.

2. You know who deserves a posthumous Medal of Honor? James Earl Ray [the confessed assassin of Martin Luther King]. We miss you, James. Godspeed.

3. Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?

4. Right. So you go into Darfur and you go into South Africa, you get rid of the white government there. You put sanctions on them. You stand behind Nelson Mandela — who was bankrolled by communists for a time, had the support of certain communist leaders. You go to Ethiopia. You do the same thing.

5. Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it.

6. The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies.

7. They’re 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares?

8. Take that bone out of your nose and call me back(to an African American female caller).

OMG, this is your 'representative'.