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217 comments on DrumBeat: June 27, 2009

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dohboi on June 27, 2009 - 10:07am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Yes, I have such mixed feelings about this bill. It is great that a major climate bill has passed at least house of congress, but handing over the future of the planet the the investment bankers that gave us last year's global financial meltdown seems...reckless to say the least.

I'm all for "cap," but "trade" no longer has the bright, promising ring it did just a few months ago. We have all seen the "magic of the market" become the dark sorcery of destruction on a massive global scale. Does anyone anymore really think that systemic greed is likely to save the planet?

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louGrinzo on June 27, 2009 - 10:48am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Put down that broad brush, step back from the wall, and take a deep breath.

Just because we've seen some spectacular examples of greed-driven stupidity in recent years--and anyone who thinks we haven't is dumber than a sack of rocks--does not mean that any program that relies on market-based mechanism is doomed to failure.

One could use the same approach to condemn all government actions, all educational institutions, all gun ownership, any organized religion, etc.

We have to choose the best possible ways to address the quickly growing problems of climate chaos and peak oil. That means not just picking the right mechanism and walking away, but remaining diligent, and flexible, about how those mechanisms are implemented.

I really hate how much the current bill was watered down, but it's so much better than doing nothing or relying on Bush-era "voluntary compliance" that had I been a member of the House I would have voted for it--and immediately made plans with my colleagues to strengthen it.

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BrianT on June 27, 2009 - 12:34pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

That is not at all accurate-reclassifying fraud and neglect of fiduciary responsibility as "stupidity" is the current Party Line but it is a lie. Excluding a few exceptions such as Madoff, pretty well every "stupid" person involved in hurting the USA economy at a high level has done very very well indeed (and continue to thrive). Fuld, Greenspan, Bernanke, Geithner, Paulson, etc. etc.-the list is a very long one. You could label both Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan as "stupid" organizations as they needed taxpayer money to continue operations, but the players are thriving nonetheless.

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jeppen on June 27, 2009 - 2:06pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Not really. Just as in every recession, GINI falls and the number of billionaires dwindle.

Also, in response to the first commenter, I would like to mention that rationing of gasoline would be stupid for real. We have a mechanism to optimize resource allocation - it's called "price". Btw - cap and trade is also somewhat daft - simple taxes creates the same effect but with far less beaurocracy. It's a pity you yanks can't stomach carbon taxes.

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dohboi on June 27, 2009 - 6:52pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"cap and trade is also somewhat daft - simple taxes creates the same effect but with far less beaurocracy. It's a pity you yanks can't stomach carbon taxes."

We can certainly agree here. But note that by endorsing taxes that you are admitting that freemarket price alone has not been an adequate "mechanism to optimize resource allocation."

Rationing should still be in the mix. If you don't think the current crisis is every bit as pressing as WWII, you haven't been paying attention.

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Longtimber on June 27, 2009 - 2:52pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

A National (FIT) Feed in tariff really makes sense to encourage alternatives to coal - even if at market rates. Hard to corrupt a power meter, Infrastructure for trade already exists. Without a FIT (or to a limited extent -net metering), you have little choice in your role as polluting grid-sucker.

A 200w PV panel with a Gridtie Inverter is under $1000 now and falling. Given a choice, many will (and are) investing to new power technologies on the personal and most important on the business level, Summary of FITs here:
http://www.wind-works.org/articles/feed_laws.html

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217 comments on DrumBeat: June 27, 2009

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