75 comments on "Peak Civilization": The Fall of the Roman Empire
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
75 comments on "Peak Civilization": The Fall of the Roman Empire
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Google search
Blogroll
- ASPO The official site of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil & Gas.
- Energy Bulletin Clearing house for news regarding the peak in global energy supply.
- PowerSwitch Dedicated to raising awareness & discussion of the impending & permanent decline of cheap oil & gas supply.
- ODAC Oil Depletion Analysis Centre working to raise awareness and promote better understanding of the world's oil-depletion problem.
- Global Public Media Public service broadcasting for a post carbon world.
- Post Carbon Institute Learning to live in a low energy world.
- PeakOil.com US site and forum to educate and promote awareness of global hydrocarbon depletion.
- FEASTA The Foundation for the Economics of Sustainability
- Tradable Energy Quotas (TEQs) This website describes an effective and fair response both to climate change and oil/gas depletion
- Aleklett's Energy Mix Global Energy Systems, Peak Oil, etc
- www.SamassaVeneessä.info Finnish peak oil site
Other Blogs
User login
Personnel
Editors
Contributors
Peak Oil Primers
Archives
- March 2010
- February 2010
- January 2010
- December 2009
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- February 2009
- January 2009
- December 2008
- November 2008
- October 2008
- September 2008
- August 2008
- July 2008
- June 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- February 2008
- January 2008
- December 2007
- November 2007
- October 2007
- September 2007
- August 2007
- July 2007
- June 2007
- May 2007
- April 2007
- March 2007
- February 2007
- January 2007
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
Vital Trivia
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.




GAIA Host Collective
Ah.... also, about the Chinese civilization, All the time as I was writing, I had in mind that I should have mentioned the parallel Chinese empire; but the essay was already too long and the matter too difficult. It would be interesting to explore the concept that the Chinese didn't collapse as the Romans did because their society was less based on military fortunes than the Roman one. But I don't know enough about China to go into this in any depth
Terrific article! I know this may sound far-fetched to some, but perhaps China's long-standing civilization is due to their use of "night soil" or human waste as a fertilizer. When I read about ancient ruins, I find it odd that the existence of sewer pipes is considered a sign of an advanced society. Looked at another way, they are highly efficient devices for moving valuable nutrients into the ocean. Grain, vegetables, and meat are moved from rural areas into urban centers, where they are flushed into the nearest river and washed into the ocean. Over centuries, this will almost certainly reduce agricultural productivity, because ancient farmers couldn't economically borrow nutrients from distant places, as we have done by mining guano or producing fertilizers from natural gas. In contrast, China and Japan had efficient systems for moving feces and urine back into the fields. I heard a radio interview with William McDonough in which he described growing up in Japan in the 50s, hearing farm carts rolling into the city full of produce in the mornings and rolling out full of sewage in the evenings. I have also read that in 1880s Japan, people were paid for the contents of their privy barrels, and five or six people living in an apartment could pay the rent with the proceeds. Apparently farmers in China still build outhouses next to highways to collect night soil from passing truckers. I believe attaching this kind of value to human "waste" is a sign of a long-term agriculture that can sustain dense populations like those of China and Japan. Yes, I know they had periodic outbreaks of cholera, but there are other ways to cultivate rice without so much standing water (see Masanobu Fukuoka) and other ways to process the manure (see The Humanure Handbook).
All ancient civilizations depended almost completely on agriculture for their energy needs, and their EROEI was based mostly on fertility which determined how many people a single farmer could feed. Legionnaires, bureaucrats, miners, and craftsmen did not have time to farm, so they had to be fed on the agricultural surplus, and the gold may have served largely as a marker for the basic value unit of food. An influx of gold would then only cause inflation, and perhaps the more important aspect of conquest was obtaining fertile land, previously inhabited by "barbarians" too uncivilized to have removed the soil nutrients efficiently.
Yes, I have lived in Japan for 6 months, back in the 1980s, and they had stopped doing the humanure trade long before. Too bad!