what ho Airdale I think you speak my thoughts: that for a thing to be sustainable it must be worth sustaining. We have, for a moment, bought the potage and have sold the simple joys of making, doing and being with each other. That potage - the corporations and governments that offer a false sense of security in return for a servile life filled with commuting, mechanized meals, structured days and virtual human contact are not sustainable for other than the docile or slavish.

.......................... Are we not men?

Well I don't say that the return to sustainable society will be easy, but on the way it is becoming interesting!

Hey Ignatz,

In the above I gave two examples of life. This was in an era of very much difficulty and very hard times EXCEPT that I didn't know that living on the farm. Hadn't a clue.

But when whisked to the big city? It was overpowerin. No more sitting out in the lawn at dusk and listening to the hoot owls. Slow talk by my uncles,aunts and grandparents,winding down the day until full dark and bedtime.

I attempted to show others how it was in both lifestyles for a young child. And my younger brother.

So to me there is no decision on this. My past settled that before I even considered it hard. No decision. I aleady had been living this way for some years. Many years even though I traveled extensively working on mainframe systems. The farm was always my touchstone.

Any way...to each his own..this is my way.

Airdale-peace be upon you