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83 comments on Alberta oil sands on 60 Minutes

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mcgowanjm on January 23, 2006 - 9:42am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
In my studies of bioregions and the break up of monolithic nation states, the theory is that places like Alberta and Saskatchewan will
be more than happy to join Montana.

The talk gets louder when Quebec starts making independence noises.

BTW-on that 60 Minutes segment, I heard hot water mentioned twice, but never heard how they planned to heat the water (say with NG).

Also,  I know that Canada just ended a fight to limit the amount of gas used to create the synfuels.

And this on who will be "paying a premium" for the chance to refine this stuff:

EnCana drops plan to process oilsands at Valero refinery
Last Updated Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:57:08 EST
CBC News

EnCana Corp. and Valero Energy Corporation announced Thursday they have dropped a plan to process heavy crude oil from Western Canada oilsands at Valero's refinery in Lima, Ohio.

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Agric on January 23, 2006 - 9:18pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You have researched the potential break up of states? How about the USA? Depending on how things develop I feel that is a probability worth considering over the next 5 or 10 years. What do your studies suggest?
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mcgowanjm on January 24, 2006 - 11:07am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Yes Agric, my "studies" basically started with the straight line boundaries-ex Colorado- of US West.

Abritrary lines that must be temporary.

BioRegions of Energy and Arable land/potable water will  form first.

Or lack of energy delivered from above-say the New Orleans Gulf Coast.  

I mentioned Canada because Canada actually has a spelled out way for the Provinces to secede.

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Stoneleigh on January 24, 2006 - 12:45pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You might enjoy reading The Nine Nations of North America by Joel Garreau. It's twenty years old and out of print, but still available from Amazon as of the last time I looked. It looks at where the geographic and cultural fault lines (which are independent of political boundaries) may lie.
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mcgowanjm on January 25, 2006 - 11:58am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Exactly, Stoneleigh

A favorite book of mine and combined with Jane Jacobs'
Cities and the Wealth of Nations (that our cities are in transactions of decline)

and James Kunstler's-
"In The Geography of Nowhere I argued that the post-war enterprise of building suburbia as a replacement for towns and cities in the United States was a self destructive act. I argued that the living arrangement Americans now think of as normal suburban sprawl - is bankrupting us economically, socially, ecologically, and spiritually. I identified the physical setting itself - the cartoon landscape of car-clogged highways, strip malls, tract houses, franchise fry pits, parking lots, junked cities, and ravaged countryside - as not merely the symptom of a troubled culture but in many ways the primary cause of our troubles."

These three books form a foundation of sorts for my studies.

I'm now looking to the "Nine Nations" and their Capitol's and Second Cities for verification of trend.

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Southsider1 on January 25, 2006 - 3:12pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Of course, the great irony is that Garreau also wrote Edge City which is a fairly positive account of everything Jacobs and Kunstler despise.
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mcgowanjm on January 27, 2006 - 9:54am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Why did I think you were going to bring up Edge Cities.

Tyson's Corner becomes a new node, farther out, linking the outstretched veins with rings or beltways.

This can only work with cheap energy.  And the center must remain vital.  If only for geographic shortest route from Point A to Point B.

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Agric on January 25, 2006 - 5:04pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I'd be very interested in what you conclude about the possible break up of the USA, where the boundaries are most likely to be, what the most likely triggers for the break up are, and how the constitutional disentanglement (if still relevant) would occur.
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wkwillis on January 26, 2006 - 9:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
The parties are polarized but the people are not. America is not blue or red, or even purple, it's pink.
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mcgowanjm on January 27, 2006 - 10:20am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
where the boundaries are most likely to be-

Here's a nice place to start

 the most likely triggers for the break up are-

Energy, either lack of or hoarding.

Food, same as above.

Natural Disaster, one too many to handle.

Or a combo of the above.

I believe that collapse is already upon us.  And has been for at least
5 years.  With Kuwait's announcement, we're depleting at over 10% per year.

And of course there's Gaia and the fact that 7 Giga Tonnes CO2 must be removed from human annual output by 2020 or sooner as
Antarctica (rising seas) and the Amazon (biomass dieoff, end of CO2 sink) continue to deteriorate.

Peace, James

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