Review: How Can We Outlive Our Way of Life?
Posted by Robert Rapier on October 2, 2007 - 10:00am
Topic: Environment/Sustainability
Tags: cellulosic ethanol, electric car, original, PHEV, solar power, sustainability [list all tags]
"Have the guts to consider the silent consequences when standing in front of the next snake-oil humanitarian." -Nassim Nicholas Taleb in The Black Swan
I believe our generation faces a sobering choice: Take serious steps to reduce our fossil fuel usage now - and this will undoubtedly entail some amount of hardship - or leave it to our children to face a great deal of hardship. I firmly believe this is our choice, and we must look to solutions that move us in that direction. I also believe that if most people understood that we are pushing a very serious problem onto our children - instead of assuming scientists and engineers will solve the problem - then we would collectively pursue a solution with far greater urgency.
Berkeley Professor Tad Patzek, who has written many articles that are critical of our present attempts to replace fossil fuels with biofuels, has just published a new article in which he also discusses solutions:
How Can We Outlive Our Way of Life? (PDF download)
Many of you know Tad Patzek as the co-author of a number of papers with David Pimentel. If you are pro corn-ethanol, then you have probably been conditioned to discount everything Professor Patzek writes. But even if you disagree with his corn ethanol position, there is still a lot to take away from this paper. Patzek's conclusion on cellulosic ethanol is the same as my own: The status of cellulosic ethanol has been exaggerated and over-hyped, and the solution that we really ought to be pursuing is electric. The abstract of the paper reads:
In this paper I outline the rational, science-based arguments that question current wisdom of replacing fossil plant fuels (coal, oil and natural gas) with fresh plant agrofuels. This 1:1 replacement is absolutely impossible for more than a few years, because of the ways the planet Earth works and maintains life. After these few years, the denuded Earth will be a different planet, hostile to human life. I argue that with the current set of objective constraints a continuous stable solution to human life cannot exist in the near-future, unless we all rapidly implement much more limited ways of using the Earth’s resources, while reducing the global populations of cars, trucks, livestock and, eventually, also humans. To avoid economic and ecological disasters, I recommend to decrease all automotive fuel use in Europe by up to 6 percent per year in 8 years, while switching to the increasingly rechargeable hybrid and all-electric cars, progressively driven by photovoltaic cells. The actual schedule of the rate of decrease should also depend on the exigencies of greenhouse gas abatement. The photovoltaic cell-battery-electric motor system is some 100 times more efficient than major agrofuel systems.
The paper is highly technical, which will turn off many people. But what I enjoy - and I believe is one of my strengths - is to distill technical information and present it so that it is more readily digestible for the layperson. My hope is that this essay succeeds in doing that.
The paper was presented at the 20th Round Table on Sustainable Development of Biofuels in Paris, and therefore contains a lot of Europe-specific discussion and recommendations. The paper covers a lot of ground. Petroleum depletion is discussed, and the business-as-usual scenario is discarded as simply not possible. Cellulosic ethanol is covered, with a close examination of the energy efficiency of Iogen's plant in Ottawa. This result is then compared to the energy efficiency claims of the six proposed demonstration plants in the U.S. The last section compares the potential of photovoltaic cells to biofuels for mitigating our depleting fossil fuel reserves.
Summarizing the Paper
Introduction
In the introduction, Professor Patzek states that world production of conventional petroleum peaked in 2006, and will decline exponentially within a decade. He suggests that heroic measures such as infill drilling, horizontal wells, and enhanced oil recovery methods can stem the decline initially, but this will lead to a steeper decline rate later on. He extrapolates the current per capita use of petroleum with the growth of population in the U.S., and concludes "that the US and the rest of the world soon will be on a head-on collision course." He also states that the U.S. currently uses 33 times as much energy in transportation fuels
than is required to feed the population.
Background
In this section, Professor Patzek outlines five constraints that impact humanity's survival, followed by possible solutions given these constraints. The constraints include exponential population growth, overuse of the earth's resources, and our current political structure in which "more is better." He presents two solutions to our current situation: 1). Go extinct; or 2). Fundamentally and abruptly change. The status quo is not an option, as Patzek believes it will lead to solution (1). I understand that many doubt that (2) is possible, which is why they believe we are doomed. Personally, I believe the most likely solution is a combination of the two. People will go extinct as food and energy become unaffordable (this is happening even now), but there will be pockets of fundamental and abrupt change. Fast recognition and adaptation - both on a personal and governmental level - are going to be very important.
Patzek examines the impact of fossil fuel usage on population growth, and concludes that of the present world population, "4.5 billion people owe their existence to the Haber-Bosch ammonia process and the fossil fuel-driven, fundamentally unstable 'green revolution,' as well as to vaccines and antibiotics."
He comments that too many in society consider themselves more knowledgeable about energy matters than they really are, and this is why we aren't urgently confronting the problem. As his 2nd conclusion of the paper, he writes:
Business as usual will lead to a complete and practically immediate crash of the technically advanced societies and, perhaps, all humanity. This outcome will not be much different from a collapse of an overgrown colony of bacteria on a petri dish when its sugar food runs out and waste products build up.
He concludes this section by pointing out that we have been conditioned to think that technology is almost magic and will solve our problems. He quoted a biofuels expert who suggested "Biotechnology is not subject to the same laws of chemistry and physics as other technologies. In biology anything is possible, and the sky is the limit!”
Efficiency of Cellulosic Ethanol Refineries
This section was extremely interesting to me. Real energy efficiencies of cellulosic ethanol plants (which presently exist only on paper or in demonstration scale) are hard to come by. Those 4:1 or 8:1 energy returns that you often see claimed are hypothetical; nobody in the cellulosic ethanol business has demonstrated anything like this. Professor Patzek attempts to shed some light on this subject. In his words:
I start from a “reverse-engineering” calculation of energy efficiency of cellulosic ethanol production in an existing Iogen pilot plant, Ottawa, Canada. I then discuss the inflated energy efficiency claims of five out-of-six recipients of $385 millions of DOE grants to develop cellulosic ethanol refineries.
Using published information, Professor Patzek calculated the efficiency of the Iogen plant. He defined the efficiency (albeit by an equation that could have been more clear) as the BTUs of ethanol produced, divided by the theoretical maximum. His calculated efficiency of the process was 20%; input 1 BTU into the process and return 0.2 BTUs, for a net of -0.8 BTUs. This calculation is in the same form as Dr. Wang's gasoline efficiency calculations - the initial BTUs of the feedstock are counted as an input into the process, and then the processing energy is counted against it. In simple terms, if you take 1 kilogram of wheat straw, add in the distillation energy and take credit for the heating value of the lignin, you have the denominator of the equation. The numerator is the heating value of the ethanol that was produced from that kilogram of wheat straw. If you started with 1 BTU of straw, and produced 1 BTU of ethanol, the efficiency is then governed purely by the distillation energy (essentially the amount of external energy required to drive the process).
Of particular note, the equation did take a credit for the lignin, which is always the assumption that cellulosic ethanol proponents use to obtain inflated energy returns. However, the most significant piece of the calculation for me - and one that Patzek did not call attention to - is that if you look at only the distillation energy (the 2nd term in the denominator of Eqn 1), it is 55% greater than the ethanol that is yielded from the distillation. That means that production of 1 BTU of cellulosic ethanol requires a distillation step that consumes 1.55 BTUs.
The reason for this is one I have stated numerous times. As Patzek writes "there is ca. 4% of alcohol in a batch of industrial wheat-straw beer, in contrast to 12 to 16% of ethanol in corn-ethanol refinery beers."
I do note that if you take full credit for the heating value of the lignin, it just barely satisifies the distillation requirement. If you run through the math, the lignin BTU credit gives an energy balance of 1.05, which is worse than the 1.3 of corn ethanol plus by-product credits. But remember, the lignin in the process is not dry. It is very wet. Drying co-products in a corn ethanol plant requires a substantial input of energy. If lignin is to be used in a cellulosic ethanol plant, it will have to be dried.
Furthermore, even if the lignin is dry, no other energy inputs into the process have been considered (so this is not a complete energy balance calculation). In other words, if those inputs were all free (of course trucking the biomass back and forth will require significant energy inputs), and the lignin was dry, you would get 1.05 BTUs of cellulosic ethanol out for a lignin input of 1 BTU. Even presuming that Iogen has made major advances recently, it is not surprising why they have been slow to build a commercial facility; they know the score. Patzek concludes:
The Iogen plant in Ottawa, Canada, has operated well below name plate capacity for three years. Iogen should retain their trade secrets, but in exchange for the significant subsidies from the US and Canadian taxpayers they should tell us what the annual production of alcohols was, how much straw was used, and what the fossil fuel and electricity inputs were. The ethanol yield coefficient in kg of ethanol per kg straw dmb is key to public assessments of the new technology. Similar remarks pertain to the Novozymes projects heavily subsidized by the Danes. Until an existing pilot plant provides real, independently verified data on yield coefficients, mash ethanol concentrations, etc., all proposed cellulosic ethanol refinery designs are speculation.
Patzek then addresses the six proposed cellulosic ethanol plants that were awarded $385 million USD by the US Department of Energy. For reference, he gives the energy efficiency of Sasol's coal-to-liquids (CTL) process as 42%, the efficiency of an average oil refinery as 88% (and I can verify that this number is spot on), and that of an optimized corn ethanol refinery as 37%.

Figure 1. Inflated Energy Efficiency Claims of Announced Cellulosic Ventures
Figure 1, from Patzek's paper, compares the claimed efficiencies of the various cellulosic ventures. Of the six proposed plants, only Abengoa, reporting 25% estimated energy efficiency, was close to Patzek's reverse-engineered efficiency for Iogen. The other five all claimed energy efficiencies in the 40-60% range. The most optimistic was Vinod Khosla's former Kergy (now Range Fuels) venture. See the last section of Cellulosic Ethanol vs. Biomass Gasification for some discussion on Kergy. This process is actually a gasification process, and as such won't have the same sorts of issues that Patzek documented for Iogen. But I don't think in an apples-to-apples comparison they can beat a CTL process on efficiency, because it is much easier to handle coal than biomass (not that I endorse CTL). They are also going to have one problem that the others don't, and that is the production of significant amounts of various mixed alcohols.
There are theoretical reasons why cellulose is unlikely to produce an ethanol concentration in the range of corn ethanol. Patzek writes that at "about 0.2 to 0.25 kg of straw/L, the mash is barely pumpable", and states that this straw concentration will result in a fermentation beer of 4.4% ethanol at a maximum. Yet five of the proposed plants are claiming energy efficiencies that are as great or greater than those of corn ethanol plants.
Where Will the Agrofuel Biomass Come From?
In this section, Patzek tackles an issue that I have also addressed: Where could we get that much biomass to begin with? Patzek asks and answers: "Where, how much, and for how long will the Earth produce the extra biomass to quench our unending thirst to drive 1 billion cars and trucks? The answer to this question is immediate and unequivocal: Nowhere, close to nothing, and for a very short time indeed."
In the interest of brevity, I won't go into the details of this section. It is a discussion of Net Primary Productivity and Net Ecosystem Productivity, as well as the USDA/DOE billion ton vision - Biomass as feedstock for a bioenergy and bioproducts industry: The technical feasibility of a billion-ton annual supply (PDF download). The short of it is that Patzek argues that the biomass is simply not available, and attempting to grow and process enough biomass to continue the business-as-usual model "would be a continental-scale ecologic and economic disaster of biblical proportions."
Photovoltaic Cells vs. Agrofuels
The analysis of Iogen's energy balance and this final section were for me the gems of this paper. In this section, Patzek looks at a square meter of land, and compares the energy potential of various biofuels, solar power, and wind power. He also shows the amount of energy if this square meter was an oil field producing oil for 30 years, but that limits the discussion to a very small fraction of the earth's surface. Also, as Patzek wrote, "this resource is finite and irreplaceable and after 30 years there is no producible oil left in it." So, I am not going to focus on the oil comparison in this section.
For his comparisons, Patzek looked at photovoltaic cells, wind turbines, corn ethanol, sugarcane ethanol, corn stover ethanol, and Acacia and Eucalyptus for FT-diesel, ethanol, or electricity. He uses the actual demonstrated solar capture efficiency of these processes. Figure 2 shows how the various sources stacked up:

Figure 2. Professor Patzek's Comparison of Various Renewable Options
As shown in the figure, based on Professor Patzek's methodology solar PV is the only option considered that has a legitimate chance to offset a fair portion of our current oil production. Wind came in a distant second. Of the biomass applications, Acacia for electricity ranked the highest. It is significant to note that the top three options all involved production of electricity.
Interestingly, while the solar capture of sugarcane ethanol ranked lower than those three options, Patzek comes to the same conclusion that I did in my essay Brazilian Ethanol is Sustainable. He writes:
Because of the unique ability of satisfying the huge CExC [RR: Defined as cumulative exergy consumption] in cane crushing, fermentation, and ethanol distillation (0.41 W/m2), as well as fresh bagasse + “trash” drying (0.27 W/m2), with the chemical exergy of bagasse and the attached “trash,” sugarcane is the only industrial energy plant that may be called “sustainable.”
Patzek also performs a calculation designed to show how much area is needed to drive a hypothetical car 15,000 miles per year on some of the energy options. He concludes that "for each 1 m2 of medium-quality oil fields one needs 620 m2 of corn fields to replace gasoline with corn ethanol and pay for the free energy costs of the ethanol production. Similarly, one can drive our example cars for one year from ~30 m2 of oil fields, 90 m2 of photovoltaic cells, 1100 m2 of wind turbines, and ~18000 m2 of corn fields."
However, one key item not addressed in this essay - and for me the key to making this vision work - is improving energy storage technology. Patzek presumes continued improvement of battery technology. In fact, he writes "With time the batteries will get better, and electric motors will take over powering the vehicles." Is that a reasonable assumption? I don't know. I would have liked to have seen this explored in a bit more detail. One hopes that this isn't a situation in which Patzek is presuming "those guys will figure it out."
Professor Patzek's Conclusions
I will let Professor Patzek's conclusions speak for themselves. Here are some excerpts:
In this paper I have painted a radical vision of a world in which fossil fuels and agrofuels will be used increasingly less in transportation vehicles. Gradually, these fuels will be replaced by electricity stored in the vehicle batteries. With time the batteries will get better, and electric motors will take over powering the vehicles. The sources of electricity for the batteries will be increasingly solar photovoltaic cells and wind turbines. The vagaries of cloudy skies and irregular winds will be alleviated to a large degree by the surplus batteries being recharged and shared locally, with no transmission lines out of a neighborhood or city.
I have shown that even mediocre solar cells that cost 1/3 of their life-time electricity production to be manufactured are at least 100 times more efficient than the current major agrofuel systems. When deployed these cells will not burn forests; kill living things on land, in the air, and in the oceans; erode soil; contaminate water; and emit astronomic quantities of greenhouse gases.
Finally, no future transportation system will allow complete “freedom of personal transportation” for everyone. I suggest that good public transportation systems will free many, if not most people from personal transportation.
My Conclusions
I am not sure whether Professor Patzek believes that biofuels have no place at all among our future energy options. In my opinion, there is a place for them, albeit in niche applications and not as a major energy source. I think we will continue to have a need for some long-range transportation options (e.g., shipping, airline transportation) that would be difficult to electrify. But for the most part, the future has to be electric. The sooner we shift focus from biofuels to electric transportation, the better.



An interesting new battery development (new to me anyway):
http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news-betavoltaic-10.1.ht...
The article is light on details, so if anyone knows anything more, please speak up.
WOW, if true that is AMAZING? If it works I can't see any reason why you couldn't stack them in a electric car?
Fuhgeddaboudit.
People have been fantasizing about beta-ray batteries of various sorts for decades, with minimal practical effect. I would even speculate that there might be a 1950s or 1960s Popular Science article on the subject. Tritium is used in small lights for remote airfields and for gunsights, but that's about it. It is, however, theoretically possible to make a tritium battery, which is more than can be said for the various perpetual motion scams.
But no jurisdiction is going to allow any ordinary consumer to own enough tritium to power a laptop for 30 years irrespective of how it's packaged. Even tiny lights containing a minute speck are illegal in many localities, as 'frivolous use' of radioactive material. In addition, you have to consider the destructive effect of even low energy beta radiation on semiconductor junctions, and the woeful inefficiency of a semiconductor junction in harvesting the collisional energy. In addition to that, you have to consider that there are no tritium mines - the stuff is in short supply and made using neutrons from nuclear reactors.
So there may be limited military uses, but anybody who thinks this will be in laptops on store shelves in two or three years is full of baloney. Indeed, as the notion of finite fossil fuel supplies takes wider hold throughout this wicked world, we shall suffocate under ever larger piles of baloney. One way of sorting this out, oftentimes, is to go through the motions of trying to buy engineering samples. For example, A123 will happily sell sample nanophosphate lithium batteries. They're real. But you can't order sample beta batteries, Steorn devices, or zero point energy sources. There's a reason for that.
Oh, and did I ever mention that too many reporters went into their field because it can be one of the most effortless ways to slide through college? So whenever you see a report of pie in the sky, take it with a grain of salt - or, better yet, the whole salt shaker. It might conceivably be true, but what are the odds? Especially when it's an anonymous web report with no one taking responsibility in a byline.
As the man says ... Fuhgeddaboudit!
There is around 3.6kg of naturally occuring tritium in the world, spread evenly around the world!
Manmade tritium? ... around 30kg ...cost? ... ~ $200,000,000 per kilo!
See
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2806
Xeroid.
It says that tritium is a BYPRODUCT, not a requirement for the battery.
The battery has been known for over ten years. patent - http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1994sprt.nasa..373S
It provides micro/milliwatts of power.
A far cry from even a silver BB.
Light, nothing, it's got some BS in the details:
"Although betavoltaic batteries sound Nuclear they’re not, they’re neither use fission/fusion or chemical processes to produce energy and so (do not produce any radioactive or hazardous waste)."
First, the poor copyediting/writing to capitalize "Nuclear" and using "they're neither use" instead of "they neither use" show this isn't a top-shelf story or close to it.
Second, beta decay is one of the three main types of radioactive decay, so the author isn't quite correct. As for whether the process produces radioactive decay or not, I have no idea what radioactive waste it may or may not produce without knowing what parent radioactive element is being used to produce the beta particles.
Without having a lot more, a lot more, information, I would NOT use such a battery in a device such as a laptop computer that is in close contact with me.
Nice examples of what 1 square metre can give you.
However, what if it were 1 square metre of tidal range estuary, what would the energy possible be there? The potential energy of a 2-3 metre tidal range wouldn't be insignificant.
Equally, what about 1 square metre of wave prone shore?
Both have the major advantage that they aren't currently used as cropland.
Along the same line, after reading about the Air New Zealand trial running of a Boing 747 on biofuel
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/autocodes/countries/new-zealand/boeing-747-fly-on-bio-fuel-$1141111.htm
I did some rough calculations based on a fuel consumption rate of 3378 gal/hour and an optimistic production rate of 150 gallons of jet fuel per acre of soybeans. A single round trip flight from LA to New Zealand and back would use more than a square mile of soybeans. Maybe better, we could ALL start eating a lot more French fries.
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"I believe our generation faces a sobering choice: Take serious steps to reduce our fossil fuel usage now - and this will undoubtedly entail some amount of hardship - or leave it to our children to face a great deal of hardship."
How can you live with yourself you shill for the oil industry you.
Good post. NPR just had a segment on how the PV industry in Japan finally moved off subsidies and is making a profit after 30 some years. Its still not making money hand over fist as they have a problem when they tell a consumer that it will take 20 years to pay off the investment. Houses in Japan are often depreciating assets.
Of course that 20 years assumes that energy prices track inflation and that has NOT been the case in the last 5 years.
Robert, batteries are "good enough", in PHEV's. Even lead-acid will do just fine in a PHEV: they're cheaper than gasoline when gas hits $.175/gallon. A PHEV-40 will displace 75-99% of fossil fuel usage, depending on usage pattern. That's enough for the moment, and of course battery capacity will grow as batteries get cheaper.
Professor Patzek's analysis of wind is a bit superficial. It's important to remember that a wind turbine may need 60 acres to prevent "shadowing" (interference between turbines), but the turbines don't "consume" that 60 acres. For instance, on a farm a turbine may "consume" about 1/4 acre for access roads and the turbine itself, leaving 99.5% of the land for farming. The same thing applies off-shore. The important thing is total resource (72TW average), E-ROI (40+), and cost (4-8 cents/kwh), all of which are perfectly good. So, wind is perfectly viable. Further, wind is competitive even now with natural gas, and wind can ramp up more quickly. Solar will be cost-competitive, and scale up, but it isn't quite there yet.
Robert,
I agree with Nick that the wind value in the figure looks suspicious. The comparison should be between solar panels and plants alone since wind is sideways solar and can't be compared in the same way. Also, solar can use in places that are not going to be used for farming so the figure has a problem there as well. If we insist that solar is mainly going to be on rooftops so that the denominator is essentially zero, there is no comparison by this method. This trend to use surface area really comes from the issues with plants, but we see it coming out in nuclear industry FUD where hydro is attacked for the surface area of the resevoir without accounting for the enhansed use of land downstream owing to irrigation and flood control. We should be careful with these surface area comparisions. The comparision of the efficiency of using quantum conversion of sunlight to electricity vrs. photosyntetic carbon storage and thermal conversion is somewhat helpful but elsewhere it can be deceptive.
Chris
I agree.
I think the bottom line here is that limits to available acreage are very important for plant-based fuels, and unimportant to everything else (oil, solar, wind, nuclear, etc).
Yes. It's a silly comparison, and I think even the author knows it.
The central constraint for oil production and especially photovoltaics are capital investment costs.
For PV, acres are irrelevant, we have plenty of low-value land with sunshine.
Panels and transmission lines are central.
Wind is especially good for electric cars because a lot of car recharging can be done over a period of hours either while parked at home or parked at work. The wind just has to blow part of the time for the recharging to work.
Oh c'mon. At least give Cellulosic Biofuels a chance! Some many people like Patzek want to shoot it down before it's even given a chance in real life scenarios. No one here can argue that bioengineering knowledge has grown beyond our wildest dreams in the past 10 years. Scientist are just now applying that knowledge to cellusosic biofuels (I say biofuels becuase it makes more sense to makes cellulosic butanol rather than ethanol) or even designer biofuels which are being worked on by companies such as LS9. The wired article has a pretty good overview of some of the people working on this stuff, and i'm sure most of them are as smart if not smarter than mr. patzek.
http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/15-10/ff_plant
I think Robert has spent a lot of time researching cellulosic and has been a strong supporter of it. That he seems to have moved from that position is telling, and most commendable.
This is very close to the argument that "someone will think of something".
On the question of electricity, Robert, I too would like to know if Patzek's faith in battery technology is the same trap as many fall into of thinking technology will save the day.
With PV, we also need to know how much PV material can be manufactured and deployed. Heinberg recently talked about rare metals in PV panels. All harnessing of energy takes resources. We need to ensure that any solutions, even in a powered down society, are fully thought through so as not to create false hopes or inappropriate investments.
Concentrated thermal electrical generation. Use the sun to heat water to steam. Power a turbine which turns a generator which produces electricity. Exactly the same as a coal fired power plant except the thermal energy is provided by the Sun instead of FF. We can deploy as many of these as we have land for.
Tim
You do realize there are some upper boundaries involved, right? Regardless of your hopes and dreams for bioengineering, the amount of solar energy which can be converted into burnable fuel has an upper boundary. Admittedly, the amount of CO2 available in an algal recycling system from coal burning means that the upper boundary of available atmospheric CO2 can be avoided, though to be honest, burning coal is just too dirty even if you can recycle the CO2 (the algal products are also recycled in as closed a loop as possible - no reason to burn more gigatons of coal, is there?).
George Monbiot (a reliable enough source) has a rough (but testable) ratio that the energy currently being generated with fossil fuel in a year represents 400 hundreds of sunlight from the past. Even giving an error margin which reduces that estimated amount to 10 years, instead of 400, you still need to come with a way to cut currently fossil fueled energy consumption by some 90%.
I think we will be changing how we live, regardless of your anti-doom perspective. And quite honestly, walking and bicycling where you live, for example, actually experiencing the world we share, is a good thing, with the correct infrastructure and community perspective - shame that so much of the U.S. will have to be rebuilt/abandoned to accomodate that fact, and that so many people will struggle against actually walking a half mile, or living in a way that makes a car fairly unnecessary.
Ironically, there was a time when New York City was considered the highest point of civilization, a livable city with immense riches, from Central Park to its subways to its schools, museums, and libraries, to its entertainment. And yet, with the rise of suburbia, NYC began its 'decline.' New York City still consumes considerably less energy, and its citizens are much less likely to value a car, than the American average.
I don't think there is any reason to be that nostalgic about suburbia or trying to keep the cars running - changing how we live is not exactly doom.
Expat: Not sure that NYC is in "decline". Apartments purchased for $200000 in the 70s are currently valued in excess of $40 mill.
Decline is a tricky term, and I knew it wouldn't be perfect - what was meant is that in terms of being at the zenith, NYC's reputation and attraction was much broader in 1930 than 1980 (possibly its public nadir), and still above today.
We live in a world surrounded by other visions than someone coming off the farm and rising to the top in the Big City. Most seem to involve materialism and anxiety - materialism as a measure of worth, and anxiety that 'they' will come and take it away.
"George Monbiot (a reliable enough source) has a rough (but testable) ratio that the energy currently being generated with fossil fuel in a year represents 400 hundreds of sunlight from the past. Even giving an error margin which reduces that estimated amount to 10 years, instead of 400, you still need to come with a way to cut currently fossil fueled energy consumption by some 90%."
This isn't quite clear, but it seems to be a comparison between the number of years required to generate FF, and current FF consumption.
This doesn't make sense. FF's were generated by a process that was perhaps .00000001% efficient, starting with the plants that Patzek is criticizing as a source of power. Current solar insolation is 25,000 times greater than FF consumption - solar (PV or CSP) would capture that just fine.
There's plenty of solar power available.
Solar power is nice but saying that there is plenty available is a meaningless statement. Calculate your total energy use and then figure out how much land you would need to buy to cover with solar panels to generate that energy at 10% efficiency. And then consider how the price of land would change if everybody else was also buying land for that purpose.
"Calculate your total energy use and then figure out how much land you would need to buy to cover with solar panels to generate that energy at 10% efficiency. "
450GW average consumption. At 10% efficiency you get 20 watts per sq meter, on average (24 hours, 365 days, average US). That gives 22.5 billion sq meters, or about 8,000 sq miles.
"then consider how the price of land would change if everybody else was also buying land for that purpose."
First, there's a lot more than 8,000 sq miles of very cheap southwestern desert in the US.
2nd, rooftops alone (residential & industrial/commercial) would suffice. Not essential to buy any land at all. Of course, CSP will probably be attractive, so we'll probably use some land in CA and FL - not enough to bid up land prices, though.
I think your 450GW number is only our (USA) current electricity consumption. Since we are considering replacing fossil fuels with electricity we should take a value closer to 3TW. That takes us to 50,000 square miles. And to take into account energy use in the winter is higher when solar energy is lower, and to account for transmission losses from the southwest to the northeast, lets multiply this by three-- 150,000 square miles. That is California right there. I agree that it is physically possible but efficiency would be a lot cheaper.
"Since we are considering replacing fossil fuels with electricity we should take a value closer to 3TW. "
Electricity is 3x more useful, so we need a value of about 1.2TW. For instance, a PHEV will use .25-.45 kwh per mile, where the average light vehicle currently uses about 1.5 KWH equivalent.
"to take into account energy use in the winter is higher when solar energy is lower"
It would be silly to rely 100% on solar. Wind is higher in winter, and it can be supplemented by nuclear, and biomass for electrical generation (which is much, much more efficient than biomass for liquid fuels).
"transmission losses from the southwest to the northeast,"
No one is suggesting powering the whole country from the SW. Most solar will be on rooftops. Finally, HVDC losses are only about 7% for 1,000 miles.
I don't expect solar to be more than roughly 1/3 of our total power.
"efficiency would be a lot cheaper"
Sure. We have a lot of mileage (pun intended) possible from efficiency.
A solar roof covering about 600 sq costs roughly $10,000 say, for a ballpark figure. At those costs, covering 10,000 sq miles with such panels would cost roughly $4.6 trillion. That would generate around 1.3TW.
Building 650 2GW nuclear power plants would cost around $3.9 trillion (assuming a fairly high cost of $6 billion per plant).
The solar panels would ideally last 20 years (probably less, being on roofs and such), and would only work well in some parts of the country, and not at night, not well in winter, etc.
The nuke plants would last around 60 years.
Just some numbers for comparison.
The sun is forever. The uranium is not, you'll end up harvesting down granite mountains to get a few kilos of it.
Just a reminder for comparison.
Don't forget that there is about 40 trillion tons of Uranium in the crust of which about 1 trillion tons is recoverable at reasonably high EROEI. You need 200 tons / reactor / year. And three times as much Thorium.
If you're going to argue that uranium is not forever, then I'm going to point out that neither sand nor the sun are forever either. One step at a time - uranium can last us a long time.
Costs don't really compare unless we talk about TOTAL costs, including environmental ones. When we do that. FF 's are all losers.
And as for nuke- why bother? we have far better alternatives.
Solar thermal beats PV in true overall costs by a long shot. Combine solar thermal with pumped hydro storage and HVDC and you have a winner over all the others, bar none.
I am too lazy to document all this. Just look at the latest issue of Engineering and Science (Caltech mag.), "Powering the Planet" by Nathan Lewis, http://nsl.caltech.edu. He has done most of the hard work (except he still thinks PV is going to win because he is a chemist and likes to work on PV--and I am a heat engineer and like to work on heat engines). But we both agree that solar is copious, the hardware is there, and we gotta go for it- NOW.
PS.Dammit! I wish people would quit spending so much time and talent beating the hell out of dead horses (ethanol of any stripe) and instead talk about winners like solar thermal.-HVDC- pumped hydro.
Spain spent $35 million euros for a solar thermal installation that generates 11MW, and the planned buildout is to spend $1.6 billion (USD) for 300MW capacity by 2013. Figure it out - it's abysmal compared to nuclear. And as for environmental costs, nuclear, particularly western nuclear, has an excellent record.
"$1.6 billion (USD) for 300MW capacity "
That's about 3x the cost/MW of the much larger Ausra installations just announced.
What do you think of Ausra?
Where are you getting the 3x cost estimate from? Ausra's website had no cost info I could see, but from