Wow. Peak Oil Is on The History Channel. (or, the "Megadisasters: Oil Apocalypse" Open Thread)
Posted by Prof. Goose on November 14, 2007 - 12:00am
Topic: Supply/Production
Tags: oil, oil prices, peak oil [list all tags]
Tonight, November 13th, (at 11 p.m. EST/PST - 10 p.m. CST), the History Channel presented Megadisasters: Oil Apocalypse, a documentary that Los Angeles-based filmmaker Martin Kent is calling "a wake up call," about the world's energy crisis. "We can no longer count on getting all the gasoline we need -- and there's no plan B." (Here's a link to the History Channel site.) Consider this an open thread to discuss the show.
and, as John said in the DrumBeat:
...to get an energy bill passed this week, the House and Senate leaders are reported to have removed the tax credit extensions and provisions for solar and wind, and removed a nationwide mandate for 15% renewable energy, the so called renewable electricity standard.On this site focused on energy, how could one justify spending any time here without allowing 20 minutes of that time to call 5 people (Pelosi, Reid and your Senators and representative) on .... energy?
Amen, brother. (more under the fold.)
Think your voice doesn't matter? You're right it doesn't. It's when there are thousands calling Congress that it matters. That's why you should call.
So I called Offices of Pelosi and Reid, + 2 senators and one representative this morning. Total time used = 18 minutes (0.06% of time spent reading TOD so far). They simply let you go on for as long as you want, register your opinion, and that's it. No debates. Persist to speak to someone.
Simply explain that eliminating renewable energy provisions (tax credits) and a 15% renewable electricity standard would be disastrous policy decision and you strongly oppose (or not) making those changes. I said AGW and peak oil production are driving this, resource depletion, while near trillion dollars annually leaving the country to pay for oil.
Certainly don't miss an opportunity to say something about a new renewable fuel standard passed by the Senate and now in the energy bill, that would raise the standard to 36 billion gallons of ethanol by 2022. Personally, I think this is as stupid a proposal as suing OPEC for antitrust violations, nonetheless both remain in the bill.
Hell say whatever you want. But say something to the people who otherwise will assume no one out there cares enough to call in. The fix may be in, I was told, but this will come back to haunt Congress next November.
Call
Pelosi's offices: 202-225-4965
Reid's office's: 202-224-3542
Congressional switchboard: 202-224-3121
or find contact info by http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/dbq/officials/As Eric noted, see http://www.energybulletin.net/37082.html, and
recent articles pertaining to energy bill:
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=50527
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/12/business/oil.php
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a52LvWyrdo1o&refer=u...
http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/243213/4/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119463316090988184.html?mod=googlenews_w...
the end is nigh the end is nigh!
Actually these history channel programs on these subjects are rather good.
I shall be setting it to record and watch it :)
It looks like a whole night: renewables on modern Marvels at 8:00 (repeated at Midnight), 9 to 11 Global warming, and 11 to 12 peak oil. The repeat of the show about renewables follows the peak oil show. should be interesting to follow
Okay, okay. If no one wants to call Congress about the energy bill, at least call 'em to watch the show.
Pelosi's offices: 202-225-4965
Reid's office's: 202-224-3542
Congressional switchboard: 202-224-3121
or find contact info by http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/dbq/officials/
The day's still young for staffers.
Perhaps the History Channel should do a Megadiaster series featuring the US Congress title Debt Explosion. Congress is more despised than Bush.
What is the sound of Peak Oil falling in a $90 Trillion Dollar World Bond Market?
Have you lost your mind? Or your ability to think critically?
The congress makes decisions based on what lobbyists tell them. That's why the language of most bills are lifted straight from lobbyist's white papers. Perhaps you hadn't noticed . . . The only good calling does is it helps their staffs figure out which sound-bites they should use to placate people. So the dumb schmucks hear their representative say something that rings true to them. Then they get all excited thinking "see my voice matters." The next day, behind closed doors, the senator or congressman votes for a law or makes appropriations in line with what the lobbyists told them to do. But the suckers - including most of the highly educated folks - almost never catch on to this.
So when you tell people to "call your congress person", what you're really telling them is "you're an easily gamed sucker, I'm an easily gamed sucker, let's all act like easily gamed suckers at once!!!"
As an example: I'm a white liberal. Barrack Obama's staff seems to have my personality archetype nailed. Everything he says I say "wow I really like that a lot. Maybe I'll vote for Barrack."See, they even have me referring to him by his first name I like his act so much!
Then, engaging my critical thinking abilities, I realize most of his money is coming from the investment banks. So voting for him would be a vote for the investment banks, albeit the ones smart enough to hire an good looking black guy to placate us white liberals.
The more money a lobbyist is given, the more influence they and their industry have. Did I mention that drug lords, arms makers, and energy conglomerates are the biggest source of funds for these things?
Come on Prof. Goose. You'd be better off telling people to write letters to people like billionaire Saudi Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, the 300 top guys at Goldman Sachs, the board at Deustch Bank, the players at Lockheed Martin and URS corporation, etc.
"I have an idea! Everybody in new york call Senator Clinton. Oh sure she's got tons of cash coming in from the investment banks and arms makers but no doubt if enough of you poor suckers email her she might change her mind. . ."
You may as well have been telling people during the day of the Tower of Babel to "write to our leaders so they realize we want the tower of babel sustainability act passed."
Article:
http://www.alternet.org/story/65869/
Wrong. Lobbyists may be the carrot but voters are the stick. Angry voters are the worst. Politicians are deathly afraid of them.
For recent example, the immigration bill failed because congressional phones were ringing off the hook. While I don't expect such a response ever for energy legislation, 500 phone calls per legislator would matter. phone calls do matter.
Chimp, work on improving your self-worth:)
Good point. The lobbyists on both sides want open borders, which is why neither party represents the voters on immigration. But so far, the angry voters have prevailed.
You're assuming that battle is over. Give the moneyed folks who want open borders another two-to-five years. They will get what they want, one way or another.
Do I need to post the articles about how Blackwater is setting up camp on the U.S.-Mexican border? It's not so they can stop the illegal immigration. It's so they can blast whichever factions aren't paying their proper cut to the moneyed folks.
That is unless we collapse into total chaos before then, something I think is a distinct possibility if not outright probability.
BTW, I realize asking PG if he has lost his (or her?) mind is borderline flamebait but he (she?) is not made of sugar, I'm sure he can take it.
PG has posted and generated lots of input on the energy bill back in August here and in June here. This is just follow up to those discussions, now that the bill may go to a vote.
I doubt minds have been lost yet.
'Lo and hi again Matt. Been a while since I've spoken here. Things are unfolding much as expected and predicted, though some a mite faster and some a mite slower.
Your frustration is right, your cynicism 80% right . Big BUT: politicians DO listen to voters when they shout loud enough. Imagine a million calling Hilary and / or Barak saying 'what you gonna do about peak oil?', they would pay attention, staffs would research, advise, they might dare speak.
Is it worth shouting? I dunno, I have a real problem with this. Less short term pain will probably cause more long term pain is the pattern I am seeing in the future. It may be past the point where it is wise to explain and alert, current reality has minimal realistic chance of persisting long, attempting to maintain it may cause more harm than good.
I've gone local, focused on training as many as practical / wish to produce food, that is an all win approach. I'll perhaps seek to influence politicians but probably not seriously until reality has smacked then hard enough first.
Ultimately we can only do what moves us and in what ways we can. Best we accept we can't know the ultimate good or ill of our well intentioned actions until after. A hard time for humans begins about now, possibly the hardest in its history as a species.
There is no map.
Agric,
How are you training people to raise food? Do you have a website, classes at a community garden, a book?
Bob Ebersole
Hi Bob, I did a couple of years helping people start up allotments (UK version of US community gardens). This year I've spent about half the summer at The Utopia Experiment getting them started growing veg to feed up to 10 people all year round:
www.utopiaexperiment.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/utopia_experiment/
They managed to get to 95%+ self sufficient in veg by late July from a late March start. Not put much online yet but I've just started a column at Off-Grid to encourage people:
http://www.off-grid.net/section/self-sufficiency/
Imagine several million people taking to the streets all over the globe... And getting completely ignored.
I was in Glasgow. Biggest political demo in modern Scottish history. We got ignored. Laughed at, even. We weren't "sensible" or "serious" enough - i.e. we did not conform to the prevailing "elite" ideology.
The only time I've ever seen ordinary people genuinely drive major policy changes was the Poll Tax riots. And even then, I doubt they'd have succeeded without the widespread refusal to pay the damn thing.
'They' ignored the record-breaking demonstrations over the war and other issues of the last few years just like your cat ignores you completely as long as your hand isn't quite touching the catfood can. Studiously ignored, while still being acutely aware that it's happening.
'They' are seriously outnumbered, and while I have no doubt that there are a few 'facilities' being erected around the world in a hopeful attempt to stem the tide, we should also not forget one of the other potentials of this massive population that we have amassed.
The light and dismissive laughter at growing choruses of public disapproval is a nervous laugh at best. Not that I like what they may be willing to try when nervous.
Bob
How soon we forget. Millions of us marched
in the streets protesting the still up and
coming rape of Iraq. The biggest worldwide
protest ever.
An it did no good at all.
Hi again Chimp,
re: "Give the moneyed folks who want open borders another two-to-five years."
I'm not sure. Not sure what the moneyed folks want, not sure they're all on "the same page"...and there is plenty of local opposition (along the proposed route of) to the border wall/fence among the less-moneyed. Plus some in favor.
(http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/fence_81110___article.html/ortiz_b... )
re: "I realize..."
Do you think there's another option?
re: "Do I need to post the articles about how Blackwater is setting up camp on the U.S.-Mexican border? It's not so they can stop the illegal immigration. It's so they can blast whichever factions aren't paying their proper cut to the moneyed folks."
The expansion of Blackwater is extremely frightening. I would welcome a post on this (perhaps that puts together the different sources and articles.)
Matt,
I would very much like to see those articles. I have been reading up on Blackwater and all the "contractor" companies and they scare the ever-lovin piss outta me.
My self-worth is very high. That's why I don't need to immerse myself into delusions of self-worth and power. Thinking that the call you place to your congressman matters is an example of an artificial sense of worth and power. You have no ability - even in conjunction with others - to influence the U.S. government. But if pretending you do makes you feel worthy and powerful, then by all means go for it. It's certainly a cheaper version of imagined self-worth and power than buying an expensive car, and has fewer side-effects than taking SSRIs. (cue a rebuttal by somebody on SSRIs)
Yeah, we noticed... ;)
Because they do not represent me - and I'm not talking about being in a different district. Our system has evolved in such a way that their job is to misrepresent the general population. One might make a better case that they do continue to represent the class to which they aspire and their "betters". Ultimately, one can count on electeds of that sort to take precisely the wrong path - the path that will make things worse.
They have to promise growth and prosperity or the state would lose its legitimacy. Ooops; that whole question of legitimacy is a sore spot.
Me, I'm going back to chiselling this big stone head. Much more productive.
cfm in Gray, ME
HI again (again) Chimp and Dry,
re: "You have no ability - even in conjunction with others - to influence the U.S. government."
People act for different motives and with differing expectations about outcome.
It's not necessarily the case that to act - to take an action - is to conform, nor to rebel. There is such a thing as action from a different basis (in theory, anyway).
That's what we really want, isn't it? A response to what we learn here, a different way to act...and a different outcome than the one that appears inevitable.
Here's an example:
"Yonatan Shapira-Former Captain in the Israeli Air Force Reserves. In 2003 Yonatan initiated the group of Israeli Air Force pilots who refused to fly attack missions on Palestinian territories. He is the co-founder of Combatants for Peace."
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/24/1439247
Excerpt:
And it took me a while to understand that not just these guys down in the wedding were disconnected to reality, but also in the cockpit here inside me was a lot of ignorance, a lot of things that I didn't know. And then you start to figure out and to learn and to find out all this half-side history lesson that you didn't get. And I realized that in order to change and not just to find a solution for myself, for my soul, for my being able to live with myself, I have to do something publicly.
Chimp,
Don't let em get you down. Keep on posting.
Chimp:
Are you working in the basement of the Pentagon putting out demoralizing agitprop for President Dick Bruce Cheeney. I know they have a shop down there putting out all sorts of crazy crap on the web. Good job.
Same BS as saying there's no difference between the parties. I know that a President Al Gore would not have gone into Iraq or removed all taxes on the rich...just for starters.
The calls do make a difference...there just have to be a lot of them. And as far as lobbyists go...they exist on both sides of every issue although the big corporate boys can offer more campaign financing.
But people have to get off their lazy braindead asses, get active and burn up the phone lines, repeatedly and persistently.
Have a longer attention span than a gnat.
Being all clever and cynical and shit may seem real slick and cool and it's right out of the wingnut playbook. Thanks.
Not a rebuttle, just a acknowledgement, even though i am on one of those ssri's(zoloft) i wish my parents did not decide to put me on them since i was in grade school. Now my body is so used to having it, it almost liturally falls apart without it. I tried getting off of it and i am still dealing with health issues caused by going off of it even though they have gotten better since i started re-taking it. I dread the days when i either can't afford it or i no longer be able to get it at any price.
Chimp, If I were into doomer porn that's what I'd say too. That, and get a box of kleenex and a bottle of Doc Johnson's Love Oil....
(Sarcanol Alert)
Bob Ebersole
Like I said "cue the rebuttal . . ."
All joking aside, I often wonder if I would be more likely to buy into and/or participate in the whole scam if I was on SSRIs.
(I don't mean that in an offensive way Bob even though it sounds like that.)
Chimp
Don't worry about it, I'm insensitive. Ask any of my three ex-wives!
Bob Ebersole
Hi Chimp,
Good to hear from you.
re: "The more money a lobbyist is given, the more influence they and their industry have. Did I mention that drug lords, arms makers, and energy conglomerates are the biggest source of funds for these things?"
1) This is an important point. The next question is: given this reality, how does one proceed? Or, how does a group proceed?
2) Is it a matter of "either/or" - necessarily? Is it necessarily the case that the action suggested is either A)altogether pointless or B) stands in the way of any other action?
re: "lost your mind"...I'd rather hear more in depth about what you're thinking and feeling.
Is it as follows: Given the enormity of what we face, the stakes are so high - you are concerned/worried and/or frantic for people taking any action that results in continuing the overall direction - which looks surely headed for the worst outcome, as opposed to some (possible) better outcome?
And you'd rather see them guided toward a different action?
Does this recommendation (to you) seem to discount the enormity of the situation? I'm just guessing (and I'd sincerely like to know).
Our suburban buildout economy is about as 'effed as the Tower of Babel was. There is nothing that can be done to save it. Just try to get you and yours out of the way of the falling rubble as best as you can.
AS far as guiding people towards action: I don't give a crap what they do or do not do as I have next-to-no influence over their behavior.
If you really think you don't influence peoples' behavior, then why do you run a website telling people about the problem, if you think no-one's listening?
Why do you debate so fervently if you think you won't affect the outcome, much less have a stake in it?
I don't think that's what he said. I think he means that the people in the congress, supreme court and executive cannot be steered from their current path. As someone who has sent dozens and dozens of letters, emails and phone calls into that black hole I can understand his position. But I keep pushing the rock up the hill.
I said I have "next to no influence". LATOC has, in my estimation, about 5,000 regular or semi-regular readers. That's next to nothing in the context of our society in the aggregate. I'm proud of the readership I do have, but I harbor no delusions of grandeur or inflated estimations of my own influence.
To illustrate: today, 2 people placed bulk food orders at one of my advertisers. That is good for them for obvious reasons. It's good for me as I earn 10% and will be rolling that into my own food storage.
So I influenced those 2 people to stock up on storable food. But my ability to influence 2 people a day to buy storable food does not mean I have the ability to influence the Boyz at Goldman Sachs and Deustch Bank.
I like to argue.
"I like to argue."
Says the lawyer. LOL! Thanks for the great laugh.
-best,
graywulffe in CVO, OR
Regards: "The Chimp having no influence.or next to none"
Well since this website of late seems to be more and more of cornucopian postings, I suspect due to lots of new members, then I would add that good 'doomers' such as yourself are sorely needed here.
If for no other reason than to offset the cornucopian's screed.
You have certainly, along with others, helped to confirm what the future holds in my mind. I have and am still making plans.
Sometimes I don't read TOD for a period of time due to the constant lack of what I term 'reality'. But I always read what the Chimp posts...but hardly ever go to his website.
Stick with it Chimp.
airdale
I see a mixed bag of cornucopian posting and 'failure to apply reason'
for example in stuart's post claiming that increasing housing density lowers energy usage, he did not even consider that if you would take a typical non-informed family of today. stick them in one house, and monitor the house's resource and energy usage. That over all the energy usage will go up and not down. simply because they will find it much easier to buy duplicate recreational items and have more then one vehicle for transport rather then try to negotiate with their family members over sharing these things. That the only energy savings seen would be through the influence of a outside force either monetary or government control.
That is a falure of reason and critical thinking. he just assumed that since family density decreased as energy increases if one increased the family density energy use would decrease.
Hi, Aniya -- and Chimp!
I agree with Chimp.
I think that the main purpose of USA electoral politics now is to co-opt and disperse any movement among the masses of people -- or especially among the elite -- for change.
We are mostly little fishes swimming in a fascist ocean.
Political leaders know that the masses of voters are as dependent upon and enmeshed in the fascist system as the elites, and can only comprise a real force for change if they change the way they live.
One key component that I find myself unable to comprehend or engage in is that we must divorce ourselves from the mainstream economy if we are to effect change. Every transaction within the mainstream economy is like another tiny strand binding us together as participants in the great, intentional market failure that fascism requires.
We are just as closely bound to the vast, global resource war that so many of us feel so opposed to. It is our daily work, spending, and assent to keep up the routines of daily political, business and social life that keep the whole "Rape Culture" going.
What to do next? I've been trying to slowly create an alternative lifestyle within the slowly collapsing Rape Culture. This sustainable lifestyle will become, I hope, the foundation for local, community survival as the larger, culture increases its violet attack on the planet and the poor people of the planet.
Even so, I have very little hope for personal survival, and embrace the absolute vulnerability which is the fate of myself and my family and friends.
I have a mystical hope that it is in fact the embrace of absolute vulnerability that gives new, peaceful, sustainable life the possibility of germinating and growing through this. That is a matter of faith and hope.
The point Chimp has made about the futility of political engagement is crucial. We enable the Rape Culture by pretending to reform it. We are too often like battered spouses. We are betrayed over and over again -- in the name of all that we might hold sacred -- and yet insist upon believing the rhetoric of the Ever Bigger Lie as we are promised that the Rape Culture will change and reform.
The more we benefit from supporting the Rape Culture, the easier it is to pretend that something else is really going on here. The well-paid professional managerial class -- the "Little Eichmanns" will go to any length to deny that something is fundamentally wrong, and that we are a fascist culture -- belligerent, militaristic, and full of lust to kill for "Lebensraum."
This is a tough part of the Peak Oil dilemma. Who are we and how did we get here? We have become precisely the kind of Sociopathic Species that we pretend to abhor. Among all of the species, we have struck the planet in a most violent way. We have mortally wounded our ecosystem --the sixth great extinction is our only legacy.
We got to Peak Oil and Global Climate Change precisely by following the rules of our fascist leadership, who now compete to see who gets to be Global Dictator for a few years.
There is no one thing to do, I suppose. It is not even certain that survival for another day is necessarily the right thing for any of us, although we usually try to tell ourselves stories that make this seem like the right sort of thing to do.
The chances of positive change diminish. Each day seems to require more faith and hope in spite of the evidence that even intelligent people among us have drunk the Reagan-Bush-Clinton Fascist Kool-Aid and do not understand the collapse at all.
In places outside the USA, the Fascist Kool-Aid is administered under various other brand names, of course. But here in the USA we have managed to Kill Off or marginalize any leaders who might have pushed our country in a truly democratic and sustainable direction.
Collapse will be the way through to anew future, if a new future there be....?
Late in the day here which means just tacking a comment on this thread after the rest of you have gone to bed.
I'd agree that ultimately the lobbyists win, but temporary victories are possible. People like Pelosi et al actually delude themselves as much as anyone else does. They follow the easiest path, which is generally doing what the lobbyists want - though it's good to remember that there are multiple kinds of lobbyists and they want different things. So there may actually be lobbyists pushing hard against one another behind the scenes, and in that case calls can sometimes make a temporary difference.
It's also good to realize that these Senatorial types are often simply ignorant about what they think will make certain constituents happy - I suppose it doesn't help that their constituents don't always know either. In the case where they think they're making a certain constituency happy, and then get competent-sounding annoyed calls from members of that constituency, they might adjust their thinking. Senators may aspire to be Machiavellian, but a lot of the time they're simply clueless.
I dislike lobbying on general principles. However, in a long life I have engaged in a number of dubious behaviours and that has at times been one. The difference between a lobbyist and a strident citizen is not always huge, though. I was really more of a strident citizen, but acting like a lobbyist (stomping around DC and grabbing legislative staffs, etc) allowed me to rewrite some laws I was interested in a time or six. That generally buys at most a decade or so before someone else rewrites it the opposite way, but as a temporary expedient it can sometimes work. It's a poor way to get things done in the world, but mostly harmless.
Is it a good use of time for an individual to call and weigh in on something like this? I plan to, even believing that the fix is in. Being able to call folks on stupidity like ethanol is cathartic; and perhaps not futile in the short term even if I think it's pretty futile in the long term. Which, as a card-carrying doomer, I do. Still, calls can sway a decision like this and I've seen it happen... so people should call.... and then go to Matt's site and stock up on your supplies.
greenish,
I think its a spiritual discipline to take the right action even if I think its futile. So I'll make the calls, even though the farm lobby has the Congress so well trained they don't even have to ask how to vote on something like ethanol.
I do think its important to take the right action even when its pointless. The basis of any type of advertsing is repetition. If we keep the pressure going even on votes where we know we will lose the congress will believe we have a movementand a voting block and possibly pay more attention on issues where there is a possibility that we can have an influence.Bob Ebersole