Hawaii: Peak Oil Canary in a Coal Mine
Posted by Gail the Actuary on June 22, 2008 - 10:00am
Topic: Environment/Sustainability
Tags: airlines, hawaii, original, tourism [list all tags]
Hawaii seems to come up often in the thinking of people aware of peak oil. On one hand, it seems like an ideal place to relocate after peak oil - no need to worry about heating a house; clothing is mostly for protection from the sun; and crops can be grown year around. On the other hand, it produces no fossil fuel itself, and it is at the end of the supply line for both food and fuel. Hawaii's biggest industry, tourism, is already declining, and with rising fuel costs, can only decline further.
Many of you know that I was recently in Hawaii. After visiting, I thought I might post a few of my thoughts about the situation.

When I visited Hawaii, I spent most of my time on the "Big Island" (with more land area than the other islands put together) and Maui (the next island north of the big island). These islands are probably the most agricultural of the Hawaiian Islands. I also visited Oahu, home of Honolulu and most of the population.
Hawaii varies a lot from place to place
One of the first things one notices is that Hawaii is a mixture of very densely populated areas and areas with virtually no people. This is what a population density map of Hawaii looks like:

When one travels around, the reason for this disparity in population density becomes clear. Most of the islands are very rugged mountains, but there are a few flatter areas where most of the people live. The soil quality also varies greatly from place to place. In some areas, particularly on the Big Island, there is not really soil, simply volcanic rock, with nothing growing on it, because the eruption giving rise to the land is very recent. Even where there is soil, the underlying volcanic rock tends to make the soil drain quite quickly after it rains.
The climate varies greatly, even with a few miles, because of the rapid elevation changes and the tendency of rain to fall on the eastern side of the islands. Most of us think of Hawaii as quite lush and green, but there is a much larger area which is very dry. High elevations can be very cool, and even can be snow-covered in winter.
What are the advantages Hawaii has from a peak-oil perspective?
1. Many are aware of Peak Oil and are concerned about the problem.
One thing I was surprised at was how aware people are of the problems, especially on the Big Island. On the way out, the woman I was sitting next to on the flight from Honolulu to Hilo (on the Big Island) brought up the issue of oil shortages, and said the local paper talked regularly about the Big Island's vulnerability to oil shortages and high proportion (90% plus) of imported food.
I gave talks to two different groups in Hilo--one was an energy forum consisting of about 150 business people and politicians discussing Big Island energy issues; the other was a group of Hawaiian people interested in sustainability. The energy forum got very good local press coverage. I was surprised that so many people were aware of peak oil, and were interested in finding solutions.
2. Fairly large population on the Big Island before fossil fuels.
When Europeans first discovered the Big Island, people lived in self-contained communities of 250 to 500 people. These communities occupied rectangular or triangular strips of land along streams. These strips went all the way from the ocean to the closest mountain top. Because climate changes so rapidly, these strips of land, called ahupua`a, offered a range of climates and soil conditions for growing many different types of foods. They also provided areas for fish ponds for farming fish. According to Robert Oaks "Hawaii: A History of the Big Island", there were about 600 of these ahupua`a, when Europeans first discovered the island.
If we multiply the number of people per community times the number of communities, we get quite a large population. If there were 250 to 500 people per ahupua`a, and 600 of these communities in total, this would suggest a total population of 150,000 to 300,000. I would find the upper end of this range difficult to believe. The current population of the Big Island is only about 135,000.
3. Some still remember pre-fossil fuel approaches.
Knowledge of the history of what was done in the past seems quite a bit better than on the mainland. Europeans first visited the Hawaiian Islands in 1778, which was not all that long ago. Hawaiians continued to rule the island until 1893. This was only a little over a hundred years ago. When I visited the Bishop museum in Honolulu, I discovered one could look at black and white photographs life under Hawaiian rule. While Western illnesses killed quite a few of the native Hawaiian people, many survived and passed down at least some of the traditions to their children.
4. Little need to heat or cool buildings.
Hawaii is known for its mild climate. On the coast, the temperatures are in the 70s and 80s in the daytime, and a little lower at night, year around. It gets cooler at higher elevations, so that one needs a fireplace for warmth.
A mild climate has many other benefits as well. One doesn't need insulation, and in fact, one can get along with just a thatched roof held up by poles for many uses.
Before Europeans came, Hawaiians wore little clothing. Those of us with fair skin would probably need clothing, simply to prevent sun burn.
5. Built in water transportation system.
Moving goods and people by boat is usually a very low energy mode of transportation. WIth ocean all around the islands, boats or barges can easily be used for transport.
6. Year around growing season.
With a very mild climate, it can be possible to grow two or three crops a year.
7. Availability of ocean to supplement food needs.
With the ocean nearby, there is the possibility of catching fish to supplement other food sources. Fish can also be farmed, sometimes even in a netted-off section of the ocean.
Eating sea weed is another possibility, as the Japanese do.
8. High rain fall in parts of the island.
A shortage of water is often a limiting factor for growing food. Parts of the Hawaiian Islands get over 100 inches of rain a year.
9. Geothermal, wind, solar, and water currents as energy sources.
There is currently one geothermal plant generating 30 MW of electricity on the Big Island, and there is the theoretical possibility of more generation, both on the Big Island and on Maui.
Parts of the islands are very windy, so wind generation is a possibility, and, in fact, is currently being used.
The islands are well situated for solar energy of all types (solar thermal, solar PV, and solar concentrating). If methods for using water currents to generate electricity are perfected, Hawaii will have this as an option as well.
What are the disadvantages Hawaii has from a peak-oil perspective?
1. Distance from rest of world.
Hawaii is a long way from any other occupied body of land. It is 2,390 miles from California; 3,850 miles from Japan; 4,900 miles from China; and 5,280 miles from the Philippines according to this source. The one thing this is good for is as a location for refueling aircraft. Apart from this, it means that everything must be transported over very long distances to get to Hawaii.
2. Agriculture is small scale; difficult to scale up.
Because Hawaii is so mountainous, it is difficult to do commercial agriculture. Also, the large amount of volcanic rock in the soil in many areas makes crops more variable than commercial equipment is designed to handle.
A publication of the US Department of Agriculture shows these statistics for Hawaii agriculture, for all of the islands combined:

The way I read this, Hawaii in 2002 had only 110,000 acres of harvested cropland. Of this, approximately 58,000 acres (.21 x 27.7% x 1000) was irrigated. In 1992, the figures were a little higher than this, with 140,000 acres of harvested crop land and 82,000 irrigated. We know that quite a bit of sugar cane and pineapple (both irrigated) has left Hawaii in recent years, so this probably explains the drop.
There is quite a bit of pasture land, but this is generally very dry and often very steep. Without irrigation, it is unlikely to be productive as farmland.
3. Vulnerability to tsunamis, volcanos, blights, climate change.
Because of its location, Hawaii is vulnerable to tsunamis, particularly along the coast, which is where most of the population is. The Big Island had a railroad at one time, but many of its bridges were destroyed by a tsunami in 1946. It was never rebuilt.
Since Hawaii is small, it is easy for it to be affected by impacts that would tend to average out over a larger area. If Hawaii grows a large amount of a single type of crop, it is possible that a pest or blight will attack the crop, and the whole crop will be lost. If a crop is planted, and the weather suddenly changes, the crop could be lost. This means that if Hawaii cannot depend on trade, it needs to keep some surplus, in case crops do not turn out as planned.
4. Lack of fossil fuels.
All of Hawaii's fossil fuel is imported. Most of this is oil (used for both electricity and transportation). Some coal is also imported for electricity. Hawaii uses very little natural gas. The lack of fossil fuels makes manufacture difficult, and makes the islands very dependent on imports.
5. Lack of metals and clay.
Hawaii was in the stone age until Europeans came and brought metal in 1778. Until I visited the island, it never occurred to me that the problem was a lack of metal ores. Also, without fossil fuels for heating the ores, it is not clear that ores would have been of much use. Early Hawaiians lacked nails, metal knives, metal pots, coins, and many other things we have come to expect.
The island is also without clay, so there is no pottery or bricks. Before Europeans came, food was wrapped in the leaves of the ti plant, and baked underground. Hollowed out gourds were used for transporting water.
6. Excessive population.
If the only island that one had to worry about from a sustainability point of view were the Big Island, the population would probably not be too far out of line with its resources. The total population of Hawaii is currently estimated at 1.28 million. If one compares this to current harvested cropland of 110,000 acres, this would equate to nearly 12 people per harvested acre. A ratio of about 1 to 1 perhaps 2 to 1, considering the long growing season, would be much better.
If Hawaii's problems become clear before those of the rest of the US, it is possible that quite a few people currently living in Hawaii will move to the mainland. This would be helpful, from the point of view of balancing the population with the available resources.
7. Belief in "right" way to do things.
Clearly, one way of attacking the problem is to try to go back to the old (pre-1778) way of doing things. Another is try to use technology to work one's way out of the problem.
Our current set of laws, regulations, and belief systems very much favors the technological approach. There are laws saying how buildings should be built. We have expectations as to how people should be dressed. Property ownership laws are such that the status quo is the most likely outcome--big businesses have large tracts of lands; most individuals have postage stamp size lots. All of these pretty much predetermine what the outcome will be.
What are the current risks?
Hawaii's biggest industry is its tourist industry. It seems likely to me that Hawaii's tourist industry will largely disappear in the next few years, as oil prices rise. Two Hawaiian air lines have already gone out of business, and two cruise lines have stopped serving the Hawaiian Islands, leaving only one cruise line serving the islands. So far, the islands away from Honolulu have been hardest hit by the drop in tourism. It seems like the situation can only get worse.
Another large source of revenue is the US military. On my way to Honolulu, there were about 30 American service men and women on the plane with me. I asked one sitting next to me where he was going. He said the whole group was on its way back to their home base in Hawaii, on leave from tour of duty in Iraq. They had flown from Iraq, through Europe, across the Atlantic to Atalnta, and now were on their way to Honolulu, to be with their wives and families. I asked the serviceman where he had been before he joined the service, and he said the US Northeast.
It is hard for me to believe that it makes economic sense to send service men and women circling the globe, all the way from Hawaii to Iraq (the long way around!), especially when they did not live in Hawaii to begin with. I would think it would make sense to scale back US military operations in Hawaii. Hawaii is needed as a refueling point, and possibly for defense, but it is hard to see how it makes sense to station a large number of service people there, when their ultimate destination is Iraq.
A smaller source of revenue is agricultural products. Hawaii exports some sugar cane, pineapple, macadamia nuts, and coffee. Prices for these goods can be expected to rise, as the price of oil increases. It is possible that these exports may be able to continue, if enough oil can be imported to keep all the necessary infrastructure maintained and the machinery operating, and if demand for the products continues at the new higher prices. One problem with these industries is that they use up most of the Hawaii's cropland, leaving little for other crops.
What are Hawaii's options going forward?
This is really too big an issue to discuss here. Perhaps I can talk about it more in a later post.
I think one of the issues is that Hawaii is currently a state that imports a lot of products, and mostly sells products like tourism and military bases. If it loses its "exports", where does it get the funding to continue buying imported food, gasoline, televisions, and asphalt?
All of our current belief systems would seem to dictate trying to find a high tech way out. Yet I have a difficult time thinking of new products Hawaii could sell to generate revenue to replace the revenue it is likely to lose from tourism and the military. Selling long distant services (computer programming or customer service) would seem to be an option, but it would seem like Hawaii's costs would be higher than those of competitors.
Going back a few years to earlier approaches doesn't seem offer any likely alternatives. Years ago, Hawaii exported salted beef. Fish was also salted, as a low-energy way of preserving it. I don't see a big market at this time for salted exported meat and fish. Before that, Hawaii's big industry was whaling. That doesn't seem to have a big future either.
Manufacturing doesn't seem very likely either. If manufacturing were undertaken, it would need to be done with local resources. Without metals, it seems like it would be hard to do very much. Power would need to be supplied by electricity, generated from an available source, such as wind or geothermal. The products would need to be ones of very high value, because of the high cost of shipping products to customers. I can't think of anything that would work well, but perhaps it is just my lack of imagination.
Another approach might be to look at what worked before Europeans came, and see what could be added to it, that might still be sustainable. Over two hundred years ago, people lived in narrow communities along streams called ahupua`a, and traded with people who lived near them. Would it make sense to go back to a system closer to the very old one? What changes would be needed to make such a system work, and be acceptable to people living there?
Certainly we could make tools from abandoned cars and trucks for a very long time, to supplement the natural resources. Locally generated electricity might be added as well.
Going back this far would require huge changes in belief systems, and probably changes in land ownership rules. I am not sure how one would even contemplate such a major change.



Life in Hawaii has long been influenced by fossil fuels. High cost of living, including food and fuel, have long been facts of life. Limited resources, including land, make living in the Aloha State hard for all but the very rich. a look at the future.
Hawaii had wind farms decades ago. The potential for sugar cane-based ethanol is good (if cane fields aren't all turned into subdivisions. HI has also been in the forefront of geothermal and solar. Problem is on Oahu / Honolulu there are too many people living high up on the food chain to be sustainable.
I am moving my 90 year old mother into assisted living on the mainland because the cost is 1/3 that of Oahu.
The problem I see with sugar cane based ethanol is that it doesn't really help with the problem of feeding the people. It may keep a few of the cars running a little longer, but it isn't likely to add much to exports, and the use of the land for this purpose leaves less for food.
There is no sugar cane production on the Big Island currently, but there is on Maui. I don't think production was cost-effective on the Big Island. Maui has more flat land, where it is easier to use commercial equipment. Maui is running into water limitations, and sugar cane is irrigated. If anything, I would expect sugar production on Maui to decrease, because of the water issues.
So there is *no* solution for hawaii, that's the consensus ?
Great.
So they're fucked if oil runs out. So they're fucked. Pack up and leave ...
(and as a comment to the original article : if Hawaii is to be defended, obviously a (relatively large) part of US mil will have to be stationed there. If it is (strategically wise) to be able stand up to a potential attack by China's 1 billion, it's probably best to station at least several thousand + including wife and children, there)
Perhaps it could use geotherm power to create hydrogen, and export that ? Or float large solar panels around the islands, use it to generate some kind of energy containing liquid and export that ? Might help with those ailing tourism industries + provide a lot of work for mechanics.
There are two different directions to go--back to what seemed to work before, and full speed ahead, to find something else that might work.
At this point, I am not seeing how full speed ahead is going to get to a reasonable destination. Maybe I am missing a solution that is available, though.
People may have a hard time accepting going back, given the difference between lifestyles 200 years ago and now. There may be some compromise, if we can add some current technology to what we knew 200 years ago, to produce something people can live with.
wait just a minute here. peak oil is a huge problem yet Hawaii can probably produce some large amounts of sugar and that STILL doesn't matter? sugar cane can help people get around town, grow some crops AND you can burn it to make electricity. that's a big plus. I can't say I know much about how they grow food. I will say that everything costs more in hawaii because they are at the end of the supply chain. in the future they'll still get imports but they'll pay more for them than the mainland they they always have. while hawaii is dependent on someone else to grow their food the flip side is someone depends on hawaii not being able to grow food to make a livelihood.
You sound like a doomer-everything does not cost more in Hawaii.
according to CNN's cost of living calculator it's 10% more expensive to live in hawaii than Queens, NY.
" according to CNN's cost of living calculator it's 10% more expensive to live in hawaii than Queens, NY."
I'd call that a bargain.
That's the first time I have EVER heard John15 called a doomer!
Those familiar with his posts will get the irony...:-)
RC
Have you looked at
http://www.blueearthbiofuels.com/
Life in Hawaii has long been influenced by fossil fuels.
Huh. I thought dole and C&H was a bigger historical issue.
http://www.chproperties.com/History.htm
Of course, it won't seem so idyllic with 300,000,000 haoles moving over from the mainland...
And it requires a focused public policy effort to keep renewables going:
http://ia300212.us.archive.org/3/items/Kau_Windfarm_small/kausmall.jpg
(credits to Leanan for the rusty windfarm picture)
I'm considering moving back to Maui----
I have a house in Kula, good soil, I know my neighbors well, it's a place I have always felt comfortable.
But something doesn't feel right. A Hawaiian friend stopped in in Marin a few days ago, and chaos was present.
But I miss the waves, and the pace, and often call my bank in Oahu to just hear a Hawaiian voice, even from a bank.
Most people cannot live on islands. Anyone can do 8 months to a year. After 2 years most are gone. If you are still there after 5 years, it is probably your home.
I lived in Micronesia also. and Hawaii is vibrant and diverse compared to the smaller islands.
... and the humuhumunukunukuāpua`a go swimmin' by ...
Hi Gail: I spent four months in Honolulu this winter-the real estate prices are similar, but other than that there is no comparison currently between the cost of living in Toronto and Honolulu-Toronto is far higher. Our natural gas prices just increased 45% and this is just the beginning. Pretty well anything you can purchase is far more expensive in Toronto. You make good points, but if Honolulu crashes, I hate to think where TO will be at that point. Re prices, I think Honolulu's are lower because of the proximity to the seaport for the whole city-in TO a lot is trucked in a great distance. Also, the climate and beauty of the place make a big difference-IMO most people could be happy on $20000 a year in Honolulu with a paid for house-in Toronto that is a miserable existence. Even the homeless in Hawaii don't seem nearly as angry or unhappy.
Aloha
A very welcome sign to see Hawaii in the discussion. The Hawaiian Islands suffer the consequence of a consumer's dependence on energy and food imported from the rest of the world. There is hope in the knowlege and dedication of the youth of the islands in their focus to rediscover the healhty and sustainable lifestyle of the past. The Kupuna, the elders will guide them to remember what the Islands can and always have provided. Hui Mauli Ola is an exsisting group of Hawaiian healers that lives and teaches traditional Hawaiian knowledge as a guide for daily activities. They are the future and a real solution.
Pete & Mokihana
The second group I talked to was the Kanaka Council. They are another group that is interested in sustainable lifestyles, including the ways of the past.
Gail,
Your report makes fascinating reading. I would suggest supplementing it by a more 'focused' approach to the country's potential population problem.
First, determine the state’s maximum carrying capacity at subsistence level.
How many humans can Hawaii support on a diet of carbohydrates? No fancy pants stuff such as dentistry, toilet paper, or sing-song evenings. Just food. Like Ireland in pre-famine years: potatoes only, hand-planted, hand-picked, hand-peeled using uncut fingernail.
I reckon that that theoretical maximum can be calculated pretty accurately. (hectares of arable land * calories produced per hectare per annum without use of synthetic fertilizers / minimum calorie intake per person required for survival until reproductive age).
After that, we work our way up to:
- Hawaii’s carrying capacity at trailer trash level
- Hawaii’s carrying capacity at lower middle class level
- Hawaii’s carrying capacity at TOD reader level
- etc.
Recommended reading: Joel H. Cohen’s ‘How Many People Can The Earth Support?’:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Many-People-Earth-Support/dp/0393314952
Also available online at Questia (if you have a subscription):
http://www.questia.com/library/book/how-many-people-can-the-earth-suppor...
Thanks for the suggestion. I have not tried to fine-tune the analysis at all at this point.
I think the Hawaii situation may be a little different from the norm, because a very large share of the land is not arable in the usual sense. It may be possible to plant a tree here and there, but moving in large scale equipment will not work.
There are an awfully lot of "wild" animals. Some chickens got loose on the Big Island years ago, and now there are chickens not quite everywhere. I understand there are wild boars, from pigs that got loose years ago. To some extent, food from these can be added back to the food supply.
There is also the possibility of farmed fish and farmed sea weed.
Most of us have a narrow view of what can be produced, based on a model of commercial agriculture operating on flat land. If the model is very different, I think the results may be different.
I did it the lazy man’s way and googled in “Hawaii” and “carrying capacity”. The first hit was an editorial in the “Hawaii Reporter” entitled “When Is Hawaii's 'Carrying Capacity' Maxed Out?”, written by one Gary Anderson, Chair of the Honolulu Sierra Club. He claims:
According to your (Gail’s) source, total farmland is 1 300 000 acres. Total carrying capacity according to Gary Anderson is thus 1 300 000 / 12 = approx 108 000 persons.
Since total population of Hawaii (2006 estimate – US Census Bureau) is approx 1.3 million, it would appear (according to Anderson) that Hawaii’s current population is 12 times greater than its carrying capacity (1.3 million / 108 000).
See here:
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?8c6b4cff-6a3f-4280-b6a8-14c70b7...
My initial impression is that you are figuring "ecological footprint" on the basis of BAU lifestyle and "farmland" on the basis of what is competitive in an export oriented commercial market. There are alternatives.
Gail, as usual your comments are right on.
A few other points of note:
Our mayor has been involved in disaster preparedness for about 30 years and he took his responsibilities with him when he became mayor. Since the island is so prone to disasters, they are way ahead of most of the US in this area.
Our electric company is well aware of peak oil and is in the process of converting much of the oil dependence to bio-diesel. Of course it won't happen over night but they are working on it. Look for kukui nuts to become a big source of fuel here.
A huge portion of our mac nut industry has been decimated. Many local growers have been letting their nuts rot on the ground the last few seasons. Why? Big industry. Hershey took over Mauna Loa mac nuts and started importing most of their nuts from Australia. They stopped taking nuts from the little guys for the most part, but when they did buy them it was a losing proposition for the small farmer. Selling at 50 cents per pound doesn't anywhere near cover their cost of production and processing. Will the heavy importation stop in the future? Mac nuts are an excellent source of essential fatty acids and are very useful. I suspect that they may become a life-sustaining crop in dire times.
A LOT of haoles moved to the islands during the real estate boom. When we moved here 3 years ago, almost everyone and their neighbors were real estate agents or builders. It was stunning. I swear that every person we met gave us a real estate business card -- either their own or a relative's. With the RE crash, the bullders and the flippers are in the dire straights right now. I had one builder literally begging me to buy his house. Others are willing to consider ANY offer -- no matter how wild it seems. Many, many houses have been empty and for sale for 2 to 3 years and prices have dropped about 40-60% on raw land. Houses are down an average of 30% in my area. But the really good part of this is that I read local blogs and posts indicating that people are leaving in droves. Those that came here for the RE boom and related industries are bailing out. So are those who thought it was no big deal to hop on a plane to visit relatives on the mainland or to treat a case of "island fever." Many older folks with medical problems do NOT want to be here with a lack of flights and medical care.
In my area, there used to be a lot of teenagers and punk types racing around in their trucks and pimped up Honda Accords. It's so quiet now that you could hear a pin drop. I go for walks every night and the crazies in their vehicles were ALWAYS a concern -- it was really bad. Now, there are nights were I don't see a single moving vehicle during a one hour walk. The main drag used to be so busy that I wouldn't even walk down that street -- I would cross it but not walk it. Now I'm able to walk down the main drag and sometimes see no vehicles at all. NICE. This is something I've been hoping and waiting for and personally hope that gas prices do NOT come down. Life is so much nicer without all that.
I say "let them leave and let the rest stop driving." For the really tough folks who don't mind working their butts off, this is a nice place to be. At 59 years old, I may not make it too far into peak oil anyway, so I might as well die in paradise...
I see this migration as good and hope that very few people decide to migrate this direction. They need to understand that they will be on a little rock in the middle of the biggest pool of water on the planet and we will be left to fend for ourselves. Most Americans I know would be better off on the mainland.
C-
Well said. Maui is a economy built on tourism, construction and real estate sales, and landscaping.
We do have the tech center in Kihei , but that has never really developed as planned.
I often wondered what the island would be like with out the pickup's and punk cars, and maybe I'll find out.
Getting up and down the mountain will take a different strategy.
The punk cars and pickups are WAY down where I live. Other traffic is down too. The horrible traffic backups where each subdivision merges onto the highway have almost disappeared. It seemed to change overnight. Even 6 months ago the drive to Hilo (about 25 miles)would take at least an hour. Now it takes me 25 to 35 minutes. Please keep leaving and please continue to limit your driven miles. The "for sale" signs are starting to show up on large pickups and SUV's.
"The punk cars and pickups are WAY down where I live. "
the bright side of peak oil.
peak car stereo?
"I see this migration as good and hope that very few people decide to migrate this direction." I agree with ckaupp. I am retired and have lived on the Big Island 20 years. Aircraft tourism will disappear completely within a couple of years and a large chunk of business people will depart this island permanently. Construction has been so overdone in recent years that no more homes or business will ever be needed. I expect population on this island to drop by at least another 25k as retired folks move back to the mainland to be near their grandchildren as the post-peak-oil horror unfolds.
Our grid could be powered quite nicely by geothermal. The largest barrier is an ugly political history. It's a matter of time till the decision makers realize that geothermal is the only reliable base load.
IMHO post peak oil is going to bring a huge reduction in population something like Paul Chefurka's paper. http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Population.html . We have been discussing these issues for years on lists like http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/the_dieoff_QA/ . I would much rather be here than on the mainland.
Thanks for your comments! I have heard some comments similar to what you are saying. With energy prices rising, and vacation travel dropping, it is to be expected that housing prices would drop.
One think I disagree with you on is the future of kukui nuts. These are not much bigger than macadamia nuts, and the problems are similar. Someone has to pick them, and the process is labor intensive. If it doesn't make sense to grow macadamia nuts to burn as biofuels, it probably doesn't make sense to grow kukui nuts as biofuels. Perhaps they might be cost-effective if someone could figure out a way to get Hawaiians to work for $1 a day picking them.
The biggest problem with the mac nuts is the importation of vast quantities from Australia. I believe they will be viable when the importation stops/slows down--just not as a big export industry. I also sense that some big businesses will bail because the cost of doing business in the middle of the pond will just be too great to bother with it.
Mac nuts and kukui nuts are very different. Mac nuts are a wonderful source of nutrition. Kukui nuts aren't really "food" nuts. Kukui nuts will not be the source of all energy, but they are a better source than sugar cane and diesels are more fuel efficient than ICE. It will not be about creating a big industry for export--it will be about creating enough industry to keeps the islanders alive. Big difference... [edit] Also note that the Big Island generates most of its electricity from OIL and this needs to be addressed. Bio-diesel is a much better way to go.
We also have solar, wind, and possibly tides for energy. I don't imagine that any of it will ever be big enough to support a large population and a lot of folks need to leave (please). But with a reduced population it may be just enough to keep us out of the dark ages. As the building/real estate industry leaves, the tourists evaporate (it is way down already), and folks leave the rocks for their families and medical care, we just might make it. But as I said, it won't be for the faint of heart to exist this way on a rock in the middle of the Pacific.
sounds like a future Easter Island to me.
except that a few people survive. well, just like Easter Island in the 1800s when EU types arrived.
i'd like to visit HI while I can, have never been. maybe by sailing ship-that would rock.
I agree that kukui nuts may make sense for a bit of fuel to burn in, say, farm equipment and maybe in a few trucks to transport produce in.
I don't think it makes sense to talk about powering electric power plants with them, however. On the mainland, operators of coal-fired plants are looking at adapting the plants to use biomass instead. This probably makes sense, if we are talking about waste wood, or even dried switchgrass.
Hawaii has oil-fired electric plants, so I would imagine that operators cannot make the same conversion that the coal fired plants do. Instead, I believe that they are talking about using kukui nuts as fuel. I don't see this process as at all equivalent, because of the work involved in harvesting the nuts. Also, there is the issue of needing the land for more useful crops. Hawaii has a number of other options for electricity (geothermal, solar, wind)--Hawaii does not need to be wasting cropland raising this type of fuel.
We shall see what transpires. I do not grow kukui nuts -- I grow mac nuts. One thing is certain: We can't continue burning oil to make electricity.
To add a little more, I looked up kukui nut (candle nut) in Wikipedia. It says
Housing prices are dropping for those in certain economic classes such as the ones TODers find themselves in. For those at other levels, it's still difficult.
With respect to kukui nuts and other sources for biofuels one might start with official documents such as:
www.hawaiiag.org/hdoa/pdf/biodiesel%20report%20(revised).pdf
hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/energy/publications/BiofuelBriefingBook2006.pdf
and then start challenging the official lines of thinking.
Thanks for the links.
If biofuels were really economical and easy to grow, we would see farmers running to produce them. The fact that this is not happening should be the first clue that there may be a problem.
I notice the Biofuel Briefing Book talks a little about the water problems in trying to produce the amount of biofuels required. I suspect this will, in fact, be a fairly major problem.
Also, an assumption seems to be made that mechanical harvesting can be done. If land is flat and soil conditions are uniform, as is often the case on the mainland, this assumption is probably a good one. When one is dealing with hilly lands and fluctuating soil conditions, this assumption is questionable.
It doesn't look like there has been much testing of the proposed methods. A lot of things look better on paper than they work in practice.
"The fact that this is not happening should be the first clue that there may be a problem." This is a rather standard argument to support the status quo. Problem: No point in growing oil crops because there's no plant for processing them. No point in building a processing plant because no one is growing the oil crops. However, consider the link I posted above:
http://www.blueearthbiofuels.com/
As usual, for people with money, the solution is to get a government handout.