Let's All Take a Minute--An Open Thread

Deep breath.

Take a minute and send a thought/prayer/whatever you believe in into the ether for the people affected by this tragedy.  I don't know if you have had a chance to see and hear the scope of this yet, and I don't know if "news coverage" will ever do it justice, but watching this stuff will just make your heart bleed. The suffering in the affected areas is of great magnitude already, and will only get worse in the coming days and weeks.

So, please keep in mind the human tragedy.

Also, please do not begrudge us for looking to the future past this event.  We do not do it out of ghoulishness or insensitivity.  We do it because we see the potential problems that may be down the road.

I also hope you will note the Red Cross box in the upper right hand corner.

Update [2005-8-30 15:56:18 by Prof. Goose]:The Governor of LA has just called for evacuation of the entirety of NOLA, calling the situation "untenable."

Its heart wrenching. My wife and I have already donated, as we did for 9-11 and for the Tsunami and for local disasters big and small.

I'm a frequent Red Cross volunteer supervisor here in Canada and would like to add, aside from a plea to donate blood:

Even if you can't contribute financially, please consider giving up some of your time. Now, right now, contact your local Red Cross.

They will need and want your help. Their call centers will be swamped; they will want to send trained experienced people out into the field. And even if your local center does not need you, its a good thing to let them know you are available for training and volunteering in your locale -- some future emergency they will call upon you. Red Cross call centers will be needed shift volunteers around the clock for some time to help in reunification work among other tasks.

Commmunity volunteerism in emergencies will give you a ton of good karma... its a good, no, tremendous feeling to be able to help in any small way.

I'm not posting much today. This is just all way too much. I will say that yesterday's coverage mostly flew in the face of reality. Consider this NY Times article from yesterday Escaping Feared Knockout Punch, Barely, New Orleans Is One Lucky Big Mess

Intelligent and aware observers knew that we'd know today what was happening. And it's just as bad as we feared, just tragic. New Orleans is being evacuated as we speak. People are dying there and in Mississippi. Not "One Lucky Big Mess", that's for sure. The infinite capacity of Americans to fool themselves is not called for as we look at one of the biggest disasters in US history.
i see at as rather hypocritical that we want help those who are suffering from Katrina, but are ignorant and careless about the suffering of the over 2.5 MILLION refugees in Darfur (who are equally without food/water/sanitation), not to mention the over 400,000 that have been genocidally slaughtered there over the past 2 years.  or perhaps the 100,000+ iraqi civilians that have been exterminated with our own troops and the ensuing war, not including countless more enduring cancer, deformaties and systemic poisioning from DU weaponry, both in Iraq and Afghanistan.  whose lives are more valuable?  obviously, if you are an american, only the ones you are willing to be aware of.  
Mr/Ms Anonymous: Its a bit arrogant to castigate people for offering support to any other people, don't you think? For one, you've no idea what the world view most of the participants hold here on TOD.

I suspect there is a higher than average complement of people here who share some or all of your views, anonymous.

One does not become a hypocrite by offering support to the suffering, no matter who they are - American or Sudanese - nor is it feasible or desirable to offer only qualified support and list every other group in history who has been wronged, hurt, or wiped out by natural and man-made disaster, before we feel for another...

The TOD no doubt draws an international audience. I am Canadian for example; I know there people from Pakistan and South Africa joining in here and no doubt many other locales. Sympathy feels the same no matter what language, religion or skin colour.

Both points of view are valid: hypocrisy and the color/nationhood blindness of help.
As an American, I can tell you that the American news reporters are incredibly America-centric. If an international flight crashes, all they want to know about is how many "Americans" perished, as if the the "others" don't count. This is part of the American sickness, that we are so self-centered we pretend other humans do not count. We can easily convince ourselves that Iraqi's are "towel heads" and thus not human or that Vietneames people are "gooks" (last war) and don't count, etc. etc.

This disaster shows that all men and women are equal in front of the all powerful forces of Mother Nature.

I understand your frustration on this issue, and I'm sure that there's some truth to what you're saying. But by posting on this particular website, you make the tacit assumption that the readers are ignorant of these tragic global situations and that they neither want to help, nor have they actually donated money or another kind of service to those in need around the world. The truth is that you have no idea.

We're posting a lot about this particular situation on this website because we exist to discuss oil issues, and Katrina will certainly affect oil production. But that doesn't mean that the readers of this website are blind to other worldwide concerns, and I don't think anyone should make such assumptions about who we are and what we believe.

Surely it is only human to be more concerned for the welfare of fellow people closer to one's home. We cannot begrudge anyone for feeling this way.
Not so "surely" about that. Yes we can.
"Compassion fatigue" can easily overwhelm people hearing about tragedies on the other side of the earth, especially where we've got little or no ability to fix the cause of matters.  (What are we going to do about the government of Sudan arming raiders in Darfur, drop a nuke on Khartoum?)

It's a different matter when it's our own country, and we know people who have lived or still live in the area affected.  If the tragedy was preventable, we could have done something (as opposed to being unable to affect events); if not, it could have been us.

There is no comparison.

if you want to know what we should do about Darfur, here is a good set of actions to take.  (and dropping nukes isn't one of them.  from a fellow engineer-poet i would expect more).  take from International Crisis Group's July policy briefing:

"Equally flawed is the concept that the atrocities are
African-only problems that require African-only
solutions. The well-documented abuses that continue to
occur demand broader and more robust international
efforts aimed at enhancing the AU's ability to lead. In
view of the Sudanese government's abdication of its
sovereign duty and to the extent that the AU cannot
adequately protect Sudan's civilians, the broader
international community has a responsibility to do so.

Civilian protection needs to become the primary
objective. Crisis Group recommends the following
immediate steps, building on AU efforts, to deploy a
multinational military force with sufficient size,
operational capacity and mandate:

1) agree on a stronger mandate. The AU must
strengthen AMIS's (AU mission in Sudan) mandate to enable and
encourage it to undertake all necessary measures,
including offensive action, against any attacks or
threats to civilians and humanitarian operations,
whether from militias operating with the
government or from the rebels. Without a
stronger mandate, the ability of AMIS -- or any
other international force -- to provide
protection will remain extremely limited,
regardless of its size;

2) recognise that many more troops are needed.
12,000-15,000 should, in Crisis Group's estimate,
be on the ground now to protect villages against
further attack or destruction, displaced persons
(IDPs) against forced repatriation and
intimidation, and women from systematic rape
outside the camps, as well as to provide security
for humanitarian operations and neutralise the
government-supported militias that prey on
civilians;

3) support a much more rapid reinforcement of
AMIS. The current AU plan is to reach 7,731 --
including 1,560 civilian police -- by September
2005. The AU believes this relatively small
force could largely stabilise the situation and
that it might then need to go up to 12,300 by
the second quarter of 2006 in order also to
facilitate the eventual return of the displaced to
their homes. Crisis Group believes even the
latter number is at the low end of what is
required first to provide stability in a still lethal
situation, that these troops need to be appropriately
equipped, trained and of a quality to undertake
a dangerous civilian protection mission and that
the AU should consequently approve and
commence an immediate increase in AMIS to
12,000-plus highly ready personnel, to be incountry
within 60 days. The need for civilian
police is especially urgent;

4) provide strong, immediate international
support. To meet these objectives, the UN, EU
and NATO must offer the AU additional help
in force preparation, deployment, sustainment,
intelligence, command and control,
communications and tactical (day and night)
mobility, including the deployment of their own
assets and personnel to meet capability gaps as
needed;

5) develop a Bridging Force Option. If the AU
cannot meet these objectives -- numbers and
quality of troops, and time -- NATO should
work closely with the AU to deploy its own
bridging force and bring the total force up to
12,000 to 15,000 within 60 days and maintain it
at that level until the AU can perform the
mission entirely with its own personnel. The AU
should agree that until such time, its units would
come under command and control of the NATO
mission. The UN Security Council should
authorise the mission with a civilian protection
mandate but if it does not, the AU and NATO
would need to assume the responsibility and
agree on an appropriate mandate. If the
Sudanese government does not accept such a
mission, NATO and the AU would need to
prepare a much larger one to operate in a nonpermissive
environment; and

6) enforce the Security Council ban on offensive
military flights. The AU and NATO should
agree on enforcement measures to be applied if
Khartoum violates the prohibition in UN
Security Council Resolution 1591."

And all you have to do to help personally with the aftermath of Katrina is go to the Red Cross and donate blood, or even hop in the car with your chainsaw and gloves and start driving.

No comparison.

so u suggest i drive to NO from CA?  i admit it's easier to get to NO than Sudan, geographically and nationally, but both would take serious effort to help in person.

it's easy to personally help with the genocide in Darfur, call your senators and representatives and tell them to support the Darfur Peace and Accountability Act in discussion.  and donate to one of the many human rights organizations keeping people fleeing burning villages alive with essential water, food, and medical assistance.  

i plan on donating blood to ARC.  if you personally know people in the NO area, that changes things.  otherwise, the genocide in Darfur is currently much worse than Katrina in terms of the scope of human suffering, and we have ignored it for over a year.  not what i would call a humanitarian response by the US or the world.  

it's easy to personally help with the genocide in Darfur, call your senators and representatives and tell them to support the Darfur Peace and Accountability Act in discussion.
You call that "helping personally"?  Leaving a message for a pol whose re-election prospects aren't going to be affected one bit by blowing me off?  Look up "activistism" for a definition of this sort of mentality.

Donating money to relief organizations isn't going to stop Khartoum from having an on-going massacre-fest.  People who send money there have little assurance that they will actually accomplish something.  But if you do something for the refugees from Katrina, the folks helped by your money are not going to have it all un-done the next week by a band of thugs sent by the government.  The help will actually help.

That's one reason why people give more for our own.

you can write to your senators/reps as well. that's better than calling. they can blow you off about anything that doesn't affect their reelection prospects, whether foreign or domestic.  you have no faith in making any sort of impact on them whatsoever, so activism to you is simply getting on the ground and personally helping people. Rwanda was a great example where people's letters did make a difference, though not enough, and more letters and calls should have been made.  the idea of "activistism" that activists are not thinking properly about pragmatic issues is contradicted by Rwanda at the very least.  

why would sending money to reputable human rights agencies doing humanitarian and intervention efforts in Sudan (or anywhere in the world) be less effective than doing so within our borders?  do you feel that sending money to relief agencies for the 2004 tsumani was also similarly corrupted and misallocated?  perhaps some of it was, but you can only depend on the organization to handle the funds appropriately (and not let corrupt governments steal them), whether domestic or foreign.  it's naive to think domestic funds are more often reliably and conscientiously used, while money used to end tyranny, oppression, and diaster overseas will most likely be wasted.  both have risks and must be judged on a case-by-case basis.

sending money will help with the humanitarian disaster in Darfur, but the politcal steps cannot and will not happen unless enough US citizens cry out loud enough to make the policy changes (increase AU ground forces, stronger AU mandate, UN support) or else.  when officials fear for their seats in Congress because people are outraged at their complacency, then they will stand up to change something.  you have just thrown up your hands, and said "i give up, genocide or not, i can't make a difference".  throwing in the towel before the game even started impies that "NEVER AGAIN" is meaningless.  

thanks for mentioning "activistism" to me.  after reading more about it, i do think it accurately reflects a problem within the guiding principles and vision of many activist groups (e.g. not looking at analysis and focusing too much on their group rather than the cause).  remaining aware and understanding of the deeper issues should be a part of activism and a way to make sure we know what the larger picture is about, and how we can make our goals into lasting reality.  i believe political lobbying can be a part of true, efficacious activism.  perhaps "regime change" is necessary in Sudan to stop the bleeding in Darfur.    
I have been aware and concerned about what is happening in Darfur in the Sudan for some time now. TOD readers/posters are conscious people for the most part who know what's going on.

Normally I let crap like you just wrote go but I'm upset today. And if you're going to write that, don't hide behind the "Anonymous Oil Drum Reader" tag, which I assume is the default for people who don't want to join and be known in this community.
There is something to be said about taking care of ones own. Sorry, but ones own countrymen comes before those of international nations. Also, when it comes to Darfur, it's not just as "fixing a problem". The land just simply can not support the quantity of people. It is, absolutely, a terrible tragedy - no one denies this.

Do you propose feeding the rapidly growing population in perpetuity?

Regardless, this post was way off topic.

i didn't mean to start a firestorm, nor was i directing blame at anyone in this forum.  generally, i think the people in this forum are quite decent.  but i do see it as hypocritical to value lives of our own countrymen arbitrarily over those of other nations/cultures.  nationalism is a great evil in my opinion, along with corporatism and fascism that have taken a stranglehold over our lives.  just think about how the american populace was manipulated by 9/11 to rouse up our sense of nationalism and willingness to disregard others' lives via impulsive emotions.

regarding Sudan/Darfur, as far as i know it's not about the amount of land  being unsustainable for the people but rather government supported genocide using militias to rape, torture, exterminate, poison well water, etc.  the reason there are 2.5 million refugees is because their villages have all been razed and bombed and they were forced to flee.

i wish the people in NO and the surrounding area the best.  i have empathy (and that is what is important, not sympathy) for all people who are oppressed, suffering or maligned by horrible circumstances or tyrannical forces.  and i know it is a generalization that most americans (and i am one) really don't care about anyone or anything that doesn't affect their personal or national interests, but sadly it is often true.  america has been this way for a long time, but regrettably i don't think we can afford to anymore for the sake of the world and what we're doing to it.  i apologize if i offended anyone to make this point.

Just a typical Democrat comment. (I'll get flamed for saying that but it's as clear as blood is red.)
Consider yourself flamed for such a blatant display of your prejudices and ignorance.

Although, if you had not posted anonymously, I would have cut you some slack.

Everyone: Take PG's advice.  Breathe.  Find a little perspective.  And then give as much as you can to the Red Cross.  Give until it hurts, until you've given enough that you'd be embarassed to tell your friends.  And then give some more.

In Darfur they are referred to as Christians. That's what the fight is about, Christians vs Moslems. The Animists are hundreds or miles farther north and putting up a better fight.
i'm not sure all Darfurians are Christian. but they are non-Arabic black African cultures.  and the Arabic Muslim government sees them fit for extermination.  i think mw is also right, in that distribution of land/water resources has had a large effect on this disaster, and contributed to its escalation.  thanks for the welcome, mw.  i think you guys are doing a great job on PO and i appreciate the great information here.  

i plan on donating some blood to IRC as soon as possible.  there are too many trapped/suffering over there.  

actually i'm not a Democrat.  but considering your accusatory, unsupported ad-hominem attack, should i label you a lap-dog Republican?  

i don't believe either party (neo-libs or neo-cons) is working for the people (with a few individual exceptions), and we need to seriously change who runs (and the way we run) the controls of this monsterous machine that is Americana.  

Nice to have you come back into the discussion anonymous, perhaps you can pick a user name out (can still hide behind that) so a train of thought can be followed into the future.

Sudan is about many things but don't discount the ability of a land to support the population as one of the root causes of poverty; people who live on rich land and who have full bellies tend not to be oppressed. This is not  an absolute but its certainly a pattern.

That's not to say they are not subject to oppression; they certainly are. Much evil has been done in the name of "oil and freedom", no matter what the anonymous thinker below your comment believes. Energy is power and power causes people, and nations, to do unnatural things to other peoples and nations.

I expect Africa to become the next world wide powderkeg in time, and oil will be underneath the surface as a clue to where to look for the worst problems.

No closet democrat here, I'm a life long Conservative, a conservative realist who does not operate with eyes shut or brain set to "accept the common clap trap" that springs out from government and the media, purporting to be truth.

(and my apologies for not noting that mr/ms anonymous had taken on a persona - welcome isaiah.
Well let's see if any other country in the world (Canada excluded) comes to our aid. The U.S. spend billions annually to help others and rarly gets a thank you. Others in the world feel we should The Big Brother and come to everyones rescue.

So, excuse us if we brood over our losses and lick our wounds. No, don't excuse us. KISS OUR ASSES next time you need us.

Aw, poor America.  
Actually, the US spends a much smaller proportion of its GDP on foreign aid than most developed countries, so we aren't particularly generous. Hopefully, other countries will be generous now, regardless.
Crisis in Louisiana
August 30, 2005 20 32  GMT

Although search-and-rescue operations remained the top priority of U.S. federal and Louisiana state authorities in the New Orleans area Aug. 30, the general consensus is that the region's main infrastructure network took a major hit from Hurricane Katrina -- and that it will be weeks at best before the crisis subsides. The eyewall -- the most deadly part of a hurricane -- swept directly across the lower Mississippi delta.

Shipping industry sources report that the situation on the Mississippi River is extremely bleak. The river is closed to navigation and restoration to "normal" traffic flows is likely to take at least a month.

As water rises in New Orleans, and spreads into the historic French Quarter, the city has become more of a hindrance than a help in efforts to assess regional infrastructure damage -- and get the region's economy back on track as soon as possible. Furthermore, if all pumps in below-sea-level New Orleans were working -- which they are not -- the bowl in which New Orleans sits would still take three weeks to empty.

Following is an initial assessment of the damage to the southern Louisiana energy and import-export infrastructure:

-Most roads either are cut off or blocked by debris. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin says that Louisiana State Highway 1 -- the backbone highway that crosses the state diagonally from the extreme northwest corner to Grand Isle on the Gulf of Mexico near the extreme southeast corner of the state -- is closed in the affected area. State Highway 39 also is closed because of debris and other problems.

-The executive director of the Grand Isle Port says the port essentially is wiped out and the industrial region surrounding it is in ruins.

-Damage assessments at Port Fourchon are being hampered because several large ships are beached on the highway leading to the port. The port is home to three-fourths of the support services to the Gulf's deepwater oil and gas facilities and the land base for the oil off-loading facility known as the Louisiana Offshore Oil Port (LOOP). At the very least the channels that allow ship access will need to be cleared.

-Oil-services facilities in the city of Venice, the closest such facility to Port Fourchon, have been completely destroyed.

-The city of Cutoff also is reporting massive damage via extremely sporadic communications.

-Shipping sources report that the Port of New Orleans, for all practical purposes, is gone. Damage along the Port of South Louisiana, a series of dozens of interlinked docks and trade service infrastructure, appears to be heavily damaged.

-Cellular and landline communications are down throughout the region.

-The situation on the Mississippi River is dire. The U.S. Coast Guard only recently began surveying the channel to look for wrecks -- and already has found many. Shipping industry sources say most barges are intact and their crews are well, but the one remaining open road to and from New Orleans will make re-supply and rotation difficult. In essence, the crews have become refugees in their barges. All electronic aids to navigation have been disrupted and are either nonfunctioning or destroyed. Although navigation is possible using GPS systems, massive quantities of debris will keep barges where they are. The river is closed to all civilian navigation to mile marker 507 in Natchez, Mississippi -- about halfway to Arkansas.

-The Coast Guard has been forced to relocate its staff upstream to Alexandria, about 200 miles from New Orleans.

-The U.S. Agriculture Department has begun debate on transporting grains -- especially soybeans and corn -- to Louisiana and Mississippi by rail, but no decisions have been confirmed. The rail industry already is expecting a shortage of rolling stock because the drought in the Ohio River valley is forcing some shipments to travel by rail instead of river. Because barges on the lower Mississippi are at a standstill, there are doubts agricultural producers will be able to ship grain into the region by the end of September. Soybean harvest begins in two weeks, and national soybean storage facilities already are filled to capacity.

At present, there is only one piece of good news. Initial reports indicate that the LOOP itself has passed its initial damage assessment and appears ready to resume operations as soon as power is restored. That does not, however, mean that it will. Operators must first ensure that the pipeline connecting the LOOP to Port Fourchon remains intact.

Something I'm wondering about a lot is the possibility for looting to spread beyond retail stores. It's surprised me that in only one day after the storm there's broad looting of stores. We know in Iraq, looting quickly moved on to anything of value, and a lot of the country's criticical infrastructure was quickly stripped of valuable stuff. That incredibly hampered the task of recovering the situation.

I wonder if there's any risk of that happening to critical infrastructures (ports, refineries, production facilities, power stations) in Louisiana?

I think they need to get troops in there fast to maintain law and order.

Obviously looting infrastructure would be bad, bad, but honestly, if people are looting food, or even clothing, for example, I wouldn't exactly blame them. These are necessities, and they're going to be destroyed anyway (especially food).

That being said, of course I do not condone illegal activities...

The Iraq looting is very different, though. Why take infrastructure? What are you going to do with it? The entire region is destroyed--there's nothing to be built right at the moment.

I condone extra-legal activities.  When people have no food, no electricty, possibily no food or shelter, and no support from the government, they should be free to pick up anything that is not nailed down for survival.

This is a particular situation where amnesty for looters makes sense.  Police and national guard have no business wasting even a second trying to stop looting when there are people who still need to be rescued.

 -- Haley Barbour, the Governor of Mississippi, said: "I have instructed the Highway Patrol and the National Guard to treat looters ruthlessly." --

So the storm does 26 billion in damage and the looters stock up on perishable goods, break locks, windows, and cash registers, perhaps doing 5-10 million in damage when all is said and done.

Gotta keep everything perspective.

The Times-Picayune reports:
Late Tuesday, Gov. Blanco spokeswoman Denise Bottcher described a disturbing scene unfolding in uptown New Orleans, where looters were trying to break into Children's Hospital.

Bottcher said the director of the hospital fears for the safety of the staff and the 100 kids inside the hospital. The director said the hospital is locked, but that the looters were trying to break in and had gathered outside the facility.

The director has sought help from the police, but, due to rising flood waters, police have not been able to respond.

Bottcher said Blanco has been told of the situation and has informed the National Guard. However, Bottcher said, the National Guard has also been unable to respond.

It started with grocery stores and within 12 hours has progressed to hospitals with kids in. I wouldn't assume that power stations or refineries will be safe. Man, sometimes I feel ashamed to be part of this species. We need troops in there, and lots of them, before the situation gets beyond all controlling (we saw how rapidly things went bad in Baghdad, and it's going every bit as fast in New Orleans).
that is pretty low down awful.

There is a difference between picking peanut butter and soda off the shelves of a Winn Dixie, which could be quite excusable and even necessary, versus endangering other people because of greed.

Lets also hope that such a tragedy in the US will make pro-war people more sensitive to the kind of havoc that war brings, and that they will rethink their war-lust.
There's a great article on tomdispatch.com posted Aug.
18 called War of the Future by David Morse regarding the
tragedy in Darfur which is really about the oil.
thanks for this impressive, illuminating article anon.  it brings many facts together, and indicts corporate funded genocide.
Sadly, this is still worsening. But at the risk of looking beyond as Prof. Goose noted: there will be more storms to come, possibly soon, and there must be better strategies and infrastructure in place to cope.

Hurricane season continues until 30 November. According to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, this is the 9th year out of the past 11 to show above-normal hurricane activity. They see a 20-30 year climate cycle that affects hurricanes (with little effect from climate change so far, in their opinion).

Their grim conclusion: "NOAA expects a continuation of above-normal seasons for another decade or perhaps longer." There are huge implications to this.

Pray for those in need, and ask for a bit of respite from future storms.

Rick's post is correct. Here is the outlook for the rest of the hurricane season.

Now, with respect to climate change, look here at a recent posting from realclimate.org if you want to know why, probably, Katrina was the most intense, biggest hurricane in recent human history.

If you disrespect Nature and put greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, the consequences may be bigger than you expect.

Perhaps even an ahhh... idiot like Steve Levitt (Freakonomics, you know, water, oxygen and sunshine are "virtually free", not to mention CO2, Methane, et.al.) is reading this. Katrina presents a unique opportunity for him to learn something.