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Wednesday's Open Thread
Posted by Heading Out on February 8, 2006 - 4:37pm
Topic: Miscellaneous
As you wish . . . .
| No conclusions, just the January numbers and some concern | The Oil Drum | And Saudi Arabia had an answer . . . | |
Posted by Heading Out on February 8, 2006 - 4:37pm
Topic: Miscellaneous
http://www.energyfuturecoalition.org/pubs/Biofuels%20Seminar%20FOLichts.pdf
NYTimes is dissing the Prius mileage:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/business/08leonhardt.html
Odograph discussed claims against hybrid mileage on his blog. http://odograph.com/?p=446 I asked a coworker, and she claims 55 mph in warm weather, but only 45 mph in the cold, which makes some sense.
Regarding the point about auto manufacturers using the non-guzzlers to balance guzzlers under CAFE, I'd rather have the choice to buy one or the other anyway.
Of course I'd also like to have a practical, affordable EV, but that seems to be too much to ask. Which will be crushed first, the last EV-1 or GM itself?
Most people don't know that the Prius is also a PZEV (Partially Zero Emissions Vehicle) in which the first few minutes of driving have quite low MPG in order to minimize polutants. The on-board real-time MPG display usually shows less than 30 MPG average for the first five minutes.
I recommend the car for those who can afford one and in particular for those who do mostly stop and go driving.
How does getting worse MPG lead to less polution? There must be something I'm missing here.
http://priuschat.com/forums/kb.php?mode=article&k=14
http://www.empresstaxi.com/
<snip>...90 passenger vehicles in total, that include over 33 Toyota Prius (Hybrid) vehicles...</snip>
Not as good, but good enough for my low annual mileage.
Greater durability, higher quality construction, biofuel option (the older M-B diesel fuel pump is uniquely suited to a variety of fuels), probably greater safety and lower cost (I won eBay bid at $10,500) than anew car. And I have confidence that, absent an accident, it will be my last car (I am 52 and this should last me into by 80s, if I live/drive that long).
Keep up!
If both are driven for 200K miles in their lifetime gas should be $8/per gallon to compensate for the 10K difference in the price tag.
For those who want their hybrids cheap as well as fuel-efficient, the Kia Rio hybrid is scheduled to be released late this year. I wonder how it will be received. The economic challenge is that the cost of the hybrid drive is basically the same whether the car is an econobox or mid-priced sedan, so, from the consumer standpoint, the hybrid premium actually increases on cheaper cars: The difference between $11k and $14k (27% increase) is more likely to deter a potential buyer than the difference between $21k and $24k (14% increase).
Actually I think that hybrids are great. I am mostly frustrated that we do not move faster in the direction of plug-ins, which would already represent a qualitevely different step in the right direction.
The easiest way to measure gas mileage is the way I describe above. At 7 gallons per week, that's one gallon a day. I wonder if it can burn E-85 right. It would be a lot better to feed alcohol distilleries than terrorists! If I used E-85 instead, the terrorists would get only one gallon/week's worth of my "donation".
I bought the car becuse a bus I would ride otherwise started carrying an idiot who hated me for no obvious reason and had no bones about letting me know. Since transit must cater to ANYONE, undesireables get to board buses and trains. Something missed by transit boosters. And in Israel, transit is known to pick up suicide bombers, meaning buses are targets. And trains are too tempting for any smallpoxer.
If everybody thought the way do(and don't take this personally, because I've read some of your other stuff and am generally impressed) - and I don't know how else to say this - but, we would have hit peak oil 50 years ago.
People do, in fact, make decisions based on a broad variety of factors, some concious, some not. However buying a car to travel alone and burn even more gas because some guy looked at you the wrong way. Boy, that's the spirit. Did you consider shooting him?
Worse, the bus agency buys buses of such poor quality that you'd think they bought them from Wal-Mart. The back door is so drafty that it can't hold HVAC, meaning it's A/C'd in winter and heated in summer. And the seats are like a La-Z-Boy chair with springs and cushions and a suspension comparable to the axles welded to the frame. It's like riding in a storm chasing plane unless the road is literally smooth as glass.
I was considering a motorcycle before the bully emerged to make the long unpleasant commute that much worse. The buses are found in Chicago's suburbs (pacebus.com) and that agency makes the CTA look good by comparison. Let the bully harass someone else. I don't need a "yellow school bus effect" along with bouncing like a lotto ball every time the bus hits a pebble. I couldn't wait before I took motorcycle lessons once the idiot emerged.
You ask a (very) good question, and that's my answer.
The needs of the bureaucrats outweigh the needs of the many --Spock.
Fun note. I occasionally do Flight Simulator and always had some interest in aviation, though for non-noble reasons. Due to this interest, I often mix aviation and automotive stuff together. (like a "load of fuel" and "tank of gas") I do see a terror danger in DISGRUNTLED PILOTS becuse they are well-trained (and expierenced) who could, in theory, pop a copilot then put the flaps back up as the plane rolls to barely take off to hit the airline headquarters building a la 9/11. This would take only seconds and be unstoppable and only take a patient pilot to fly out of the wrong airport on the wrong runway. (only obvious to a flight sim player)
Since idiots are way more common than terrorists, this is a bigger hazard all around. We can see idiots as we drive. The "disgruntled pilot" hazard has precedent with an EgyptAir pilot and of course the disgruntled postal workers, and suicide gunmen unconnected with any terrorist group. Idiots become "independant operatives".
I bought a Kia Sephia in '99 and get similar mpg.
Did you complain to the transit systems management about the problem passenger? The system I worked for could ban passengers who were repeatedly causing trouble. ADA does not protect trouble makers.
The alternative to the bully was to wait for the next bus which would be the EXACT same vehicle, but with worse crowding. I have gone to a PACE public hearing before this problem, knowing that things wouldn't change. I spoke up about the other problems (not bully-related) and noted I only had a chance to perform as a comedian. Not good. The 3 execs/stooges are nearly unreachable - certainly without a car. (ironic, eh?)
The problem with the suburban bus system is that the management knows that the ONLY alternative is to do what I did, drive. The bully merely was that tipping point that got me to say "F%&k it" and proceed to drive. My conclusion is that mass transit and our suburbs are a very poor match, on a par with drinking and driving. :(
i was visiting L.A. a few years ago for a conference. i had taken super shuttle from the airport on arriving, but during my stay i figured out that for the return trip i could take a bus from near my hotel to the airport for real cheap. i didn't really need to save the money (was getting reimbursed anyway) but felt inclined to take the bus anyway. (i was poor years ago and certain habits linger.)
but at dinner w/ a bunch of folks somehow this came up and a guy there urged me not to do it. he said he'd lived in L.A. for like twenty years and could tell me with authority that the buses were a bad situation. crazy people, dirty, smelly, scarey people. he said, it's not like in the movie "speed" where the bus driver knows people by name and everyone is nice and clean cut and normal. he was quite clear about the risks of taking the bus and seemed to know what he was talking about.
okay so i figured i'd do it anyway. smelly people, big deal, right? so i took the bus to the airport on the morning of my return.
guess what? everyone on there was well dressed, freshly shampooed, normal, and not crazy. the bus driver knew people by name, and even had a discussion with one regular passenger about another who hadn't been seen lately. i mean, i figured the guy who warned me might have been exaggerating a little, but to find out that he was just totally, utterly wrong in every detail -- that was surprise!
the funny thing was, he didn't actually take the bus (he told me). he just "knew" these things from living in L.A.
(not casting doubt on your particular bully story.)
Bullies aside, the suburban bus system by Chicago could use a lot of improvement. But with the economics being like a monopoly with a greatly costlier alternative, it is shoddy at best - and non-existent as the norm.
I've grown fond of this little car, although it's already started to fall apart so badly that I'm going to have to get rid of it before the next autumn. It irritates me a lot when I have to fix it (I have the repair manual for it and some skills, but the spare parts cost quite a lot money), but every time I fill the tank I remember why I love that car.
If both (Echo and Prius) are driven for 200K miles in their lifetime gas should be $8/per gallon to compensate for the 10K difference in the price tag.
- not even then? If I compute that using 38 mpg vs 45 mpg I get about $12. Also, if oil got more expensive, the purchase-price difference would get bigger, since it costs energy to make the stuff. The real question is: does the hybrid pay for its energy of manufacturing, relative to the best we can do with non-hybrid technology. Just the battery in the Prius is about $4000, and I wonder how long it'll last - if you need to replace it before those 200,000 miles are done, add that to the cost difference... And that's the relatively small battery that has not much plug-in utility.
If we want to save fuel, we need to accept the concept of driving (or riding) smaller, lighter vehicles. Yes if you get hit by a large truck you're in trouble. That's true in an SUV too. So should we all drive Sherman tanks? Alternatives include: lower speed limits, and less driving to reduce risk. Even with large vehicles, 100 people die on an average day in accidents in the US, and many many more are injured. If that many died in some other activity we'd regulate it down to nothing, but car-driving is the national addiction and we repress the risk in our minds. The same over-protective parents that won't leave a 15-year-old home alone for an hour, or let him/her walk half a mile, will give him/her the keys to the car at 16. This while the stats show that car accidents are the biggest risk to teens, by far.
Question to hybrid owners: how well does the real-time MPG display match the gold standard: the comutation based on the odometer and the gallons bought at the pump?
I don't fully agree with you about hybrids vs small cars. First I don't see why don't we go in both directions in the same time (plus mass transit as a third direction).
Second and more important, hybrids are the first step to electric transportation. IMO, if there is a solution to our oil problem, it will go through scrapping those 15% efficient ICEs in the next several decades.
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=9624&hl=mpg+display
A short suggestion: Don't run your prius out of fuel. The computer freaks out and needs to be recalibrated at a dealer, and it isn't covered under warranty.
One last thing: The terrain you drive in has a very large effect on a prius' mpg. Here in Southern California we have a lot of mountains. People here typically get 10-20 percent less mpg than customers on the East coast.
I had this kind of real-time MPG thingie on a 1987(!) BMW 325is, and it definitely improved my driving habits.
Me, I am striving to create a little commuter that will say on the back, This thing might smell a little funny, but it goes 20 miles on a double handfull of wood pellets.
In this line of thought, anybody know how I can reduce gas consumption for the first couple of miles? I don't have a mileage meter, but my short commute to the train staion is probably in the single digits.
(and no, biking is not an option)
(aham a Prius is not either, I'm waiting for the plug-ins to appear before I buy)
It turns out there are a whole bunch of tricks, some obvious, others less so: