Feeding the Beast

The title comes from this excellent article from MyWestTexas, Valero trading room grapples with 'Feeding the Beast' (reprinted from the San Antonio Express News):
On the sprawling trading-room floor at Valero Energy Corporations's headquarters, planners, traders and their bosses grapple every day with a task they call "feeding the beast."

Valero's 18 refineries chew through 3.3 million barrels of crude oil a day, oil that the San Antonio-based company buys from around the world.

And today we learn that the US consumption beast is not the only thing Valero is feeding. DoD awards Valero contract to ship jet fuel to Israel.
The Department of Defense has awarded Valero Energy Corp. a $36.8 million contract to supply military-grade jet fuel to the government of Israel -- the United States' key ally in the Middle East.
How's Valero doing? Let's talk briefly about how this refining and retail company does business under the current oil and gasoline market conditions.
At Valero Energy Corp, they are energized about the future. For a summary of their business, Wikipedia has an informative article here. It's the MyWestTexas piece that has the good stuff in it.
  • Of the 3.3/mbd of crude oil processed, about 65% is bought under long term contracts. The remaining 35% is bought on the spot market.
  • Valero buys 25% of its oil domestically. The rest is purchased from countries all over the world including Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Venezuela, Ecuador and several nations in Africa.
  • At any given time, Valero has about 200 million barrels of price exposure, so "risk management is very important". Also, about 40% of the crude they buy is from "politically unstable nations". So, they must keep abreast of geopolitical events. No doubt this has an impact on the risk management.
  • The 3.3 million barrels Valero buys and processes each day represents almost 4% of world production.
Presumably, Valero has no price exposure for oil bought under long term contracts while prices rise (see below) -- only for the 35% spent on the volatile spot market where the price for August (CLQ06.NYM) is $76.14 as of this writing. I don't know how Valero calculates its price exposure but counting both contracts and the spot market, that's an astonishing 60.6 days of supply amounting to 15.23 billion dollars. How do they hedge that risk? I don't know because those kind of details are not available. Buying gold is always a good idea given the geopolitical tensions. But some considerations are offered by Platts in Oil Price Risk Management.
Meanwhile for upstream producers and refiners [like Valero], these high prices have presented a different kind of dilemma in hedging terms; whether to [1] sell such apparently high prices in forward markets whilst they are available, and which may not be able to be achieved indefinitely, or [2] to adjust their expectations to a 'new paradigm' of permanently high oil prices. The condition and capacity of global refining and pipeline infrastructure may have to wait for funds released by collateral sales of forward energy before the necessary refinements and capacity can be undertaken and thus have any effect in adjusting supply better to continuing high demand.
If the importer sells high prices (for oil or refined products like gasoline) as a hedge, they think that prices are abnormally high and will come down. But Valero is buying oil in the forward markets; I believe they have adopted strategy #2 in which there is a "new paradigm" of permanently high oil prices and demand remains strong. Common sense tells us that spot purchases leave Valero exposed to price variations. For example, they must manage the risk of a price spike due to an oil shock because they must keep sufficiently high margins to continue upstream purchases in such an event. In this case, the sudden spike is a detrimental price development. On the other hand, forward purchases (contracts) for oil leave Valero protected against rising prices (whatever the cause) but leave them exposed to detrimental lower prices. This strategy is reflected in their robust 2006 1st quarter earnings report (see below) and is in concert with the oil futures markets, which are in contango. As for their refined products, MyWestTexas says
Then there's the sell side. Valero's plants churn out more than 1.4 million barrels of gasoline a day and about 1.1 million gallons of products called distillates that include diesel and jet fuel. A significant amount of the product is sold on the spot market, [executive vice president of marketing and supply] Gorder said.
Selling a significant amount of your product on the spot market is consistent with a strategy that views high gasoline prices as here to stay.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention the distinct possibility that should the Israeli conflicts with Hezbollah and Hamas escalate into a war involving Syria and Iran, there might be a spike sending oil prices over $100/barrel or the spike could be weaker. This in turn could dampen demand sharply even in the near term and reduce oil prices. I do not know how Valero is hedging against this possibility or if they are. The atmosphere may be tense on Valero's trading-room floor right about now. No one really knows how high prices must go before Americans cut their consumption significantly. In any case, to hurt Valero prices would have to drop somewhere below today's levels. This kind of price swing appears unlikely. The volatility will depend on the demand elasticity among other things. My view, and it could very well be Valero's as well, is that US transportation fuel demand has little elasticity. People who have some slack will forego other discretionary spending before they cut back on their vehicle miles traveled. Not the Cable TV though!

Using the forward purchase contracts is paying off for Valero as we see from this 1st quarter summary -- Valero Energy Corporation Reports First Quarter Earnings.

"The second quarter is off to an outstanding start. Gulf Coast gasoline and diesel margins are at record levels for April. The forward curve is showing these record margins continuing through the summer. Sour crude oil discounts also remain terrific with the heavy Maya crude oil discount averaging more than $14 per barrel for April and medium sour crude oils, such as Mars, averaging more than $6 per barrel discount. Given that 60 percent of our feedstocks are purchased at [forward] discounts to benchmark sweet crude oil prices, these discounts play a significant role in our earnings. With our leverage to these outstanding product margins and sour crude oil discounts, the second quarter is shaping up to be the highest earnings quarter in Valero's history.

"Looking at refining fundamentals for the rest of the year, we feel very confident that the refining environment will remain strong. The combination of growing refined product demand, despite higher price levels globally, and regulatory pressures on supply should support continued strength in refined product margins. Sour crude oil discounts should continue to be wide due to ample supplies of sour grades and higher demand for sweet crudes as refiners try to meet lower sulfur specifications and increase yields of high-value clean products," [Valero CEO Bill] Klesse said.

Regarding the company's cash flow, capital spending for the first quarter was approximately $975 million, of which $200 million was for turnaround expenditures. For the year, the company anticipates capital spending of approximately $3.5 billion. In addition, the company paid off $221 million of long-term debt and purchased 10.7 million shares of its common stock during the first quarter.

The discrepancy between 60% and 65% as quoted above may be significant but I don't know the reason for it. I'm not sure what "regulatory pressures on supply" means in this context. Regarding paying off debt and repurchasing their common stock, I need only point out that Valero is bullish on Valero.

The point is simply this. Despite some volatility, prices continue to go up. US demand remains strong in the face of rising prices and heavy sour crude discounts are large. As Klesse says above, that is an economic environment in which Valero thrives. Since prices continue to rise and costs are passed on immediately, "gasoline and diesel margins are at record levels" as of April and forecast to stay strong all summer. Moreover, sour and medium sour discounts continue to be strong. Why? Because there is a glut (from MSN Money) of heavy sour crude on the market. This makes perfect sense.

Here's the crux of the problem for gasoline consumers and oil companies: There's just not enough light sweet crude to meet demand. And, while there's plenty of heavy sour crude, a barrel of heavy sour crude yields about a third less gasoline than does a barrel of sweet light crude. That's if you can refine it to begin with...

How big a glut? A big, big one, judging by the price of light sweet and heavy sour crude. At the end of June, Nigerian Bonny Light, one of most sought-after grades of light sweet crude, was selling on the spot market for $71.65 a barrel, while Saudi Arabian Heavy sold for $58.70 a barrel, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That's a spread of almost $13 a barrel, way above the $5 a barrel historical average for the spread between light sweet and heavy sour grades.

This represents a profit opportunity for Valero since they can handle the heavy sour crude refining whereas some foreign refiners can not.
Refineries that can turn heavy sour crude into gasoline aren't evenly distributed around the world. Europe and the United States have more than their share. About 60% of the crude refined in 2005 by Valero Energy (VLO, news, msgs), for example, was heavy sour crude.
The MSN Money analyst Jim Jubak lists Valero as his top stock pick, noting that "Valero swallowed Premcor, another specialist in refining heavy sour crude, in 2005 to become the leading heavy sour-oil pure play". Refining on Wall Street? Valero's current profits and rosy outlook is also consistent with investment in new capacity -- see Refinery bottleneck to ease (from the CS Monitor) in which we learn that
Among those who have announced expansions are Valero, adding an additional 400,000 barrels per day, and Chevron and ExxonMobil, each adding 75,000 barrels per day. Suncor, Motiva, and Citgo also have expansion plans.
So, Valero continues to feed the beast and light sweet crude production has peaked for the time being, probably forever. Prices are volatile but continue to go up. American gasoline demand has not slackened much -- it is still growing.


From the EIA. See here

Selling jet fuel to Israel can't hurt prices any. Valero is prospering and bullish on future oil prices because the beast is never satiated.

I would triple underline that fat discount of heavy crude to light crude with explanation marks, as key to VLO profitability. VLO lives by the "crack spread," ie, the difference in price between crude oil and usable refined products such as gasonline, kerosene, and distillates. Not too long ago a  crack spread of around 2 bucks was considered reasonable. That $14/ barrel discount for Mayan crude is almost pure operating profit for VLO after allowing for the lower proportion of high quality product that one gets from heavier crude. These guys have to be printing money right now.

Even if the crude price drops back from current levels, two longer term factors would seem to weigh in VLO's favor (1) The long lead time for competitors to bring on additional heavy crude refining capacity, and (2) The increasing percentage of heavy crudes on offer as light crude deposits peak and drop off. Indeed some like JDH think light crude has peaked already, while reserving judgment on the timing of the overall oil peak.

Let me repeat it again. As a percentage of the price, the light /heavy spread is not higher than it used to be!
I'm not convinced that light sweet oil is running out quicker than heavy sour (unless we count oil sands/tar as heavy sour).
Do you have any documentation of this?

I'm not disagreeing. However, this is contrary to conventional wisdom and the basic point is very important.

Claims that light oil has peaked and that refining capacity, particularly complex, is constrained would both lead to an increased spread. In the past, I have charted spreads fro EIA data and noted the increase, however I have not adjusted for price.

Spreads can be viewed as being created by refining configurations. If the spreads have not grown, it brings much of what is said about current refining into doubt.

I may try to chart this later, but won't have time for a few hours and don't have a website to post it on.

I think he's basing it on the fact that the spread has roughly doubled or tripled over the historical average as per Jubak's article, while during the same time frame the price of oil has roughly doubled or tripled.

You can post anything you want on my site. I'll even post it for you here. Send me images or Excel spreadsheets. theoilceo@yahoo.com

Thanks for the website offer. I'll probably take you up on it one of these days.

I think you are right about the spread question. Since refinery configurations determine spread, I suppose an absolute figure could be viewed as more relevant than a relative figure.

By this I mean, if the refining industry expends an average of $5 more to refine a heavy crude, it should cost about $5 less. So a $15 dollar spread is telling us something, even though in terms of the base price it is unchanged.

I do think this is worth exploring as it is another useful clue to what is going on out there.

Thanks for the Jubak link. Not sure the guy should put his photo up there though.

I have nothing to do with spread question. In fact I know very little about the spread issue. Any credit is due smekhovo. I was only trying to debunk him, when I realized he might have a point.

Jubak's great. I'm glad Dave finally got turned on to him. Very smart guy and totally "with it" on energy issues. He follows the money. I can only hope he pays attention to environmental and moral issues with the same tenacity.

As far as his photo...what, you don't like large mustaches? I guess only AlphaMaleProphetOfDoom and his girlies would be impressed.

Evidence of my view is that the spread between light sweet crude and, for example, Urals - which is significantly heavier and sourer than Brent or WTI, but less so than Maya - is actually much less than it used to be as a percentage of price.
OK. You are probably right. I'm still going to track down the data. I found a great spreadsheet of crude price hiistories at EIA one day, but can't locate it now. Should get it done tonight.

However, after further reflection, I think it is the absolute spread ($ terms)that matters, not the relative spread (% of crude price).

Spreads between crudes are basically determined by the cost differential between converting heavy crudes and light crudes to products. As I noted above, if the average cost of converting a Urals slate to a given product slate is $5 more than the cost of converting WTI, the spread should be about $5.

If the spread has gone up in proportion to the oil price, I do think it represents a lack of light crudes and/or complex refineries. Absent these constraints, I think the spread would have remained consistent in nominal terms and shrunk in relative terms.

Valero's refining margin is basically fixed. They, like other highly complex refineries, make money when the spread is large in absolute terms. The crude price itself and the value of the spread realtive to it are not important.


The fundamental spread tht determines profiablility is the price differential between cost per barrel of heavy sour crude and the price they get for the products produced from that barrel of oil.  

Part of the reason for the discount for heavy sour crude is because it doesn't produce as much gasoline.  If that is the dominant reason for the spread then it makes good sense that the spread betweeen heavy and light should remain constant on a percentage basis.  

If on the other hand the spread is really there to compensate the refiner for the added cost of refining the stuff then it should remain constant on an absolute basis.  

In the real world it would be a mixture of the two, it is probably best just to attempt to track the spread between their cost of materials(heavy crude) and the weighted average of the price they get for the products.  

I am not an expert in refining, but I do know that crude is sweetened at a refinery by mixing it with hydrogen with a catalist and taking the resulting hydrogen sulfide gas and removing the sulfur by freezing it so the sulfur drops out, or burning the hydrogen sulfide. All of this process is energy intensive-the hydrogen comes from natural gas. Gas prices are fairly low right now, but, as they rise will raise the refining costs. I haven't the slightest idea about how much gas is needed, but probably someone who knows can fill us in.
This being the case you would think the gas going forward will cause exponential price increases at the pump as we pay twice to make gas from crude?  Would this be fair?
vlo looks to be a good investment for years - at least, i hope so, as they make up 10% of my energy investments. Good to hear they are having a record q.
It's so nice to know that as a US taxpayer I am personally paying for not only the bombs and jets the Israelis are using to destroy Lebanon and Lebanese civilians,  but also for the fuel that goes into those jets.

Such a deal!

See? We finally agree. I also think it is so nice.

(Couldn't resist that one --but let's not escalate this into a mini war again. Remember, you lobbed the first provocation here. Peace.)

Since you think what Israeli is doing in Lebanon is "so nice", how about being a sport and pick up my share of the tab for the free jet fuel they're getting from us?

Better yet, how about being a REAL good sport and pick up my share of the $3 billion+ that the  US Congress bestows upon Israeli every year?  It's in your interest; not mine.

(Couldn't resist that one --)

"It's in your interest; not mine. "

I would not be so sure of that.  It may not be to your liking but it may be in your best interest and you might not know it...

Hmm.  How is this in my best interest?
odograph,

Well let me see . . .

  1. Israel is an ally of the USA.
  2. They are a democracy, not a dictatorship or fanatical religious movement.
  3. They do not want to return to the 7th century A.D.
  4. Radical Islamic-Fanatics are better dead than alive.
      a) They won't try killing me if they are dead.
      b) They won't continue making women 2nd class citizens.
      c) They won't mutilate women, as they do in some cases.
      d) They won't use nuclear bombs.
      e) They might try translating a few more books from Chinese, Japanese and English into Arabic.
      f) Do I really need to go on?
  1. I assume you all realize that SA, Jordan, and Egypt, and the Gulf States, are not unhappy with this entire play. They do not want Iran to jump ahead in world politics for a bunch of reasons.
  2. Don't forget we subsidize the defense of all of the above and send a lot of food/stuff to Egypt.

Frankly, I think Israel should nail Syria and get rid of the Assad family/Alawite dictatorship, OR, not have hammered fragile Lebanon. But they now have as of tonight Israeli soldiers in Lebanon.

This will not end soon.

Well said.
This is what Joule actually said (underlining added):
It's so nice to know that as a US taxpayer I am personally paying for not only the bombs and jets the Israelis are using to destroy Lebanon and Lebanese civilians,  but also for the fuel that goes into those jets.

I was thinking it is nice for Joule to "know" this.
I should have known better than to instigate another round of feces flinging in our TOD monkey cage. Then again, I must subconsciously enjoy this ploy (because it leads to attention getting, entertainment, sense of control over others, ... and all those other psychotic human tendencies which I, like many human creatures, possess).

This kind of exhibition unfortunately reinforces the doomer-gloomer part of my brain because even we TODder's cannot restrain ourselves.


(A "self-restraint" clip from June 2003 Al Jazeerah cartoons, you'll find translation there and also a pictorial insight as to how "they" think.)

The next dream from today's AJ cartoons:

P.S. I do not wish death for anyone just because they have "bad thoughts". I've had many bad thoughts in my life which I now regret.

Thank God for Al-Jazeera.

Those cartoons are clever and there's a great deal of truth in them.

Freedom of speech bugs you, huh?

Oh, and go check out that tippy UN tower folks - the statement is by John Bolton, the US's representative to the UN.

Really Al-J prints some fine stuff. If you read the captions instead of making up your own, you can see that those horrible monkeys over there are humans beings who hurt and bleed too. Maybe your God has told you they all need to die, but not everyone believes in your God. That little weedy buy in sandals walking along the road, you know, the guy you had great fun splashing water on with your SUV, might just the the God who kicks your God's ass.

fleam,

we sometimes agree (maids are people too).
and we sometimes seem to disagree.

you wrote (with apparent deep feelings):

you can see that those horrible monkeys over there are humans beings who hurt and bleed too. Maybe your God has told you they all need to die, but not everyone believes in your God.

I express my opinions on the wishing of death upon others and on extremist cult religions nearby this post (see my response to Jack Greene)

Clearly you have been inflamed into an angry & bitter mood.
I'm sorry.
I just wanted everyone to engage in some critical thinking about the fate of humanity (e.g. how do collapsing human organizations deal with increasing stresses?). I guess this provocation merely caused more anger and hurt and flaming. It did not get too many people to "step back" and see the bigger picture.

I was watching a tv show the other day called tribe . I'm in the UK so you may not have heard about it.  It was essentially about this western guy who goes into some of the most primitive tribes and lives as one of them... as much as you can being an outsider. The last show was all about the Nyangaton who live on the borders of Ethiopia, Kenya and Sudan.  He decided to visit these guys because the year before he lived with their neighbours the Suri.  The two do not get on.  The Suri had filled him with stories about how evil and barbarous the Nyangaton were.  How mercilessly they killed the women and children.

However what he found out when he lived with the Nyangaton was that they were not the devils they had been made out to be.  They were just human beings getting on with a difficult life.  They were stuck between a rock and a hard place, the Suri had all the best pasture land, meanwhile they were surrounded by other tribes pushing into their territory.  They were struggling to survive. As humans have done since time immemorial they fought for their lives, they killed people and have a culture that encourages it; that is the only option they have left to survive.

I don't see that the western world has really become any better at dealing with an overcrowded planet.  Diplomacy is easy when you can afford it, and we do not even manage that very well these days.  And remember there is a lot of blood on our hands.  We are in our position of comfort precisely because we have fought for it.

Israel, Lebanon: I don't see much difference, just a bunch of humans trying to make do with what they have and when the purse strings start getting a little tight.  Just as we do.  There are atrocities aplenty to go around.  And no doubt unreported stories of self sacrifice and love.

This is the real problem that peak oil exposes.  It removes the illusion of the western  worlds `humanity' and shows us for the animals we really are.  Not that there is anything wrong with being an animal.  

For all our achievements and abilities, our suffering and love.  We are still subject to a world of finite resources, and when they start to run out we will fight for our land and our right to live just as the Suri and the Nyangaton do.   Just as Israel and Lebanon do.

It is easy to blame Hezbollah.  Their interests are against ours.  But remember they are humans, and largely humans who have suffered to the point that there `humanity' has eroded away.  One of the interesting things about the Nyangaton was that even though their culture was all for killing the enemy.  It was really hard for them to do it.  They had to have ceremonies and prep talks from the elders and really psyche themselves up.  The rest of the time they seemed gentle souls as most humans are; enjoying a friendly wrestle, spending time in the bush with their mates and time at home with family.  I doubt that Hezbulla are much different.  And what of the many civilians, the men, women and children who are simply trying to scratch out an existence.

It can also be easy to blame Isreal.  The big bully. One of the biggest armies in the world using out of proportion force to tackle a far weaker foe and killing many innocent civilians in the process. Yet they also are just humans, living in a crowded corner and surrounded by people who at best dislike them and many who would like to see them removed from the earth.  Their towns and cities are also being hit by rockets and civilians dying.

I say again.  This is the real problem that peak oil exposes.  It shows us to be the primitive human animals that we are.  For all our compassion and ability to care for one another, when we find ourselves up the creek we fight for our corner.

My heart goes out to all those suffering to in Isreal and Liberea in the conflict and to those on this forum who are also suffering in our own ways.

Sky Wick: Very eloquent (and very politically incorrect). I guess no one informed you that when this subject is brought up every day on TOD you need to pick a side. One side is totally evil, one side is more saintly than Mother Theresa. Never mention that most of the casualties on both sides are civilians (often little kids)-if they are not on your side they deserved it. It is the closest thing TOD has to the Jerry Springer show, or the WWF. Get with the program.
SkyWick & Brian T,
Both well said.

I think this post exposes "The Beast" within us all.

In each country (be it Israel, Lebanon, Iran, etc.) the average person is merely trying to live his or her life, trying to meek out a living in trying circumstances where there are not too many options for how to survive.

The average person sees only what his or her eyes show them, what the ears speak of to them.

Unbeknownst to many of the average citizens, civilizations around them are collapsing. There are not enough jobs to keep everybody happily employed. So artificial industries of hate are built up. If only we kill and anhialate the people on the other side of the border, things will get better. Remember it's "us" against "them". They are the axis of evil and "we" are the good ones, the ones that our God has chosen to be victorious over "them". They are in their last throes and we are on a non-negotiable path towards paradise.

It is a scene almost copied from George Orwell's "1984".

How many of our government leaders (or religous leaders) are preaching something like this to us?

These are the bell tolls of collapse.
The elites do not have any new tricks to pull out of their rabbit hats. So they set one group of peons against the other. Let the fun and distractions begin! The monkey cages are rattling again.

Meanwhile, out in a dessert spot, an oil well is slowly running out of the lucor of life. At the edge of a forest, more trees are being felled. Underground in an aquifer, the water level invisibly drops. Up in the atmosphere, the CO2 concentration silently increases. But whose got time to pay attention? We are having too much fun killing each other.

p.s. I guess that is why this Thread is named "Feeding the Beast" (although the thread launchers were talking about Valero, but then again, even they threw in an "Israel" instigator into the intro)
Nah it's called "Feeding The Beast" after, apparently, the term used in the VLO company to mean getting the oil in each month to keep up with production. Kind of like any biz, there's a certain amount of turning the crank that has to be done to keep it going. And perhaps feeding the hungry machine is getting harder or taking more flexible standards for VLO lately.

My little "instigator" was newsworthy but I knew it would provoke some discussion. But that's a discussion we need to have.

Also, I didn't get into Valero government contracts, political action committees and where the money went. That is also worthy of discussion but I left it out of the main post. The jet fuel to Israel deal is one of many such contracts that Valero has "landed" in past years.

[It's] a discussion we need to have

Dave, I agree.

When I first learned of Peak Oil, it started me on a journey.

I tried to tell everyone I knew about this impending disaster.

And yet, "their eyes glazed over".

That led to some tough questions:

  1. Why did their eyes glaze over?
  2. What kind of beings are they that they can ignore this?

The answers were not pretty.
They are we.
They are irrational animals.
They run in herds, often with mindless abandon.
Each one of they (we) thinks he/she is better than the next one.
If the bad thing happens, it won't happen to me. It will happen to the "less deserving" other, to the "them", not to the "us".

Until we deal with The Beast that is us, we really will not be able to deal with problems like Peak Oil, Global Warming, Population explosion, etc. The true problem is The Beast that lies within. (Use "lies" with both meanings.)

Jack Greene wrote --and I'd like to comment on this:  
4. Radical Islamic-Fanatics are better dead than alive.

      a) They won't try killing me if they are dead.
      b) They won't continue making women 2nd class citizens.
      c) They won't mutilate women, as they do in some cases.
      d) They won't use nuclear bombs.
      e) They might try translating a few more books from Chinese, Japanese and English into Arabic.

First, many "Islamic-Fanatics" cannot help being what they are. They were taught this from birth just like you and I were taught from birth to make money and be part of the Smithian cult (--the Adam Smith cult that worships consumerism and specialization and the Invisible Hand).

Second, it is morally irresponsible to wish death upon any human being as long as there are viable alternatives at the moment for yourself. (Israel has no viable alternative at the moment for itself because they already tried diplomacy & cease fire agreements and yet the Hezbollah rockets keep coming, the Palestinian rockets keep coming.)

Third, because I was raised in a highly religious Jewish up bringing (and have since then gone heathen), I know that belittlement of women is not an Islam-only attribute. It is very much a part of Hassidic Jewish tradition as well. If you study extreme Jewish Hassidism versus extreme Muslim Fanaticism, you will find that there is very little that separates the two with regard to how they view women. Both religious sects are mind control cults. Perhaps Islam is a bit more mind controlling because they require muttering to yourself 5 times a day, whereas Judiasm only calls for 3 major mutterings per day.

(No disrespect meant for believers of either religion. They are human beings like me. It's just my personal opinion.)

step back,

You make some good points. The part on female mutiliation is pretty much spot on, but I would point out, and that is what I was thinking about, in Southern Somalia with the Islamic regime now in place, you will not see that practice going by the wayside. BUT, even in Puntland or other northern Somalia areas that do not support Bin Laden and Company, it may continue.

I always got a kick out of the two blocs trying to stop extending the right to vote to women in the USA was led by the clergy and saloon keepers.

Southern Somalia? Is that what this is about? Oh please.
Let me correct the only statement you make which has a clear meaning.
No radical Muslim practices female circumcision. No-one at all does it for religious reasons. It's a traditional custom in some African societies, some of which are Muslim.
Also, "subsidize the defence of" is an interesting way of putting "install puppet tyrants to rule".
As to the rest of your nonsense, go on by all means. It's not as if those who believe it are accessible to argument.
Here's how to read the McNews coming out of the Israel-lebanon situation right now:

For "Hezbollah base" read "child care center"
For "enemy fighters" read "grade school kids", "grandmothers", "walking wounded", etc.
For "bomb making facility" read "hospital"

You get the idea. The Israelis are taking the "nits will be lice" approach, for extra credit look that saying up.

------------------------------------

For extra-extra credit, go find a book called "Radical simplcity". It has a feather on the cover. Feathers are cool. The author was a nice little cog in the machine, and realized he didn't agree with what his tax money was being spent on, what his engineering ability was being used for, etc. He decided the only real means of protest was to stop being so damned useful to the machine. How he did this was to go to living on so little money, that he pays no taxes.

This solution is looking more and more viable to me every day. In fact I'm trying not to look at it more than necessary because the more I do, the more it looks mandatory.

Bullshit. Keep it fact-based. I could make much worse statements regarding
Arabs/Palestinians/Hezbollah/Hamas/Terrorists.

And my statements would all be facts.

You are smarter than this. Cut the crap.

How would you respond if you were the Israelis? How would you respond?

Tell me what your expertise on the Mid-East exists of. Tell me. I want to know. I want to know where you get your history and your opinions on this matter.

How would you respond?

Extra Credit - Why are Israeli weapons designed to be the most effective against military targets while their enemies weapons are designed to inflict the most amount of damage to the largest amounts of civilians possible?

Why did the Israelis decide to strike one of Lebanon's largest dairy factories(in the Bekaa) at 3AM - when none of its 200 hundred employees would be working there? Why not strike at 9AM when they could have maimed everyone?

Don't even try to make light of the fact that a dairy-factory is not a military target. You would only be verifying you unde