C2C – the Emerging Energy Technologies Summit – day 2
Posted by Heading Out on February 11, 2007 - 1:27pm
Topic: Alternative energy
Tags: carbon sequestration, coal, nuclear, sustainable development [list all tags]
Well they sure are hospitable folks down here, they laid on Seattle weather here today for their Dean, who hails from those parts. Unfortunately Bill Mitchell, the first speaker in the session on Sustainable Development Communities was taken ill and could not make the meeting, so that the following two speakers were given extra time to fill in the gap. (I will forego the UCSB PR that was the intro to the day – but will cover a bit at the end, since it paid for my trip).
The responses to the evolving crisis in Energy Supply will have to be addressed in several ways, and the first session of the morning looked at the development of sustainable communities, in particular focusing on Chula Vista and the work of the National Energy Center for Sustainable Communities, itself part of the Global Energy Center and an affiliation of universities in addressing the issues of urban sustainability given
In the United States, for example, 80% of the population lives in cities. Their buildings, transportation and urban infrastructure account for 80% of U.S. energy consumption, and 70% of that amount is determined by how and where Americans design their neighborhoods. Low-density development in the U.S. consumes 85% more energy, 70 times more water, 50 times more lumber and 40 times more land than higher-density development of the same square footage.
This being CA and the times being what they are, it was also stressed that urban areas are responsible for 75% of the GHG emissions. This was one of Doug Newman’s opening comments as he talked about the goals that the Center and the Department of Energy have in setting up this effort to build what hopefully will become an international model of a sustainable community. It is important at the community level when one considers that power outages, which impact communities, cost $119 billion a year, and that energy costs are second only to labor in community expenses.
UPDATE Byron Washom's remarks have been corrected - my apologies for the error.
Building a sustainable community is, however, not just something that is done by universities unloading a set of new technologies onto the community. It requires community planning and the creation of public policy, and for those to be effective, they require that there must also be some economic, market and behavioral studies to give input in the formulation of those policies.
And so, recognizing that this could not be a piecemeal approach, three disparate communities within Chula Vista, (pdf) map here Village 2, the Eastern Urban Center and Village 9 were selected.
In essence the idea is to take the development plans in these communities, evaluate each using computer models to evaluate, inter alia, energy use, and to ensure that development ideas will work, and to then make recommendations. Out of the exercise it is anticipated that a plan of action will evolve and be refined, that will give two Reference Guides for the future of such communities. One will be a Guide for Development Professionals, and the other a Guide for State Agencies and Financial Entities.
The idea is also, once a baseline has been established, to model options and, after policy and feasibility reviews, to then identify 20 projects in which to install showcase technologies and then to create a national demonstration site for other communities. And I must apologize in that there was a video shown on the program at lunch, and I missed the reference and was too late to get one, but I believe that you can get a free copy here . (I hope so ‘cos I just tried ordering one).
Larisa Dobriansky who first was involved with the program while at the Department of Energy, and unfortunately her laptop had a problem and so she read her speech – and I must apologize, but she talked too fast for me to get it all down, though it was largely about the same project as the previous speaker.
Looking at the anticipated growth in energy demand – something on the order of a four-fold multiplication – there will be many consequences, but these will fall disproportionately on transitional societies. And we have to find a better solution than the status quo, or it will get worse. Yet these solutions must fit within the existing infrastructure and provide for viable development. Sustainability must occur at all levels, and thus developing an energy smart community makes sense. It has been the energy insensitive developments of the past that have given us our reputation as profligate users, particularly in regard to our use of low density housing. But the blame must also go to an energy distribution system that by being centralized, and invisible, has become rigidified as it responded to the initial incentives and created barriers against evolution. The emphasis must change so that instead of having fuel use the first priority, that instead goes to the service provision first, and the actual fuel source last. This will allow the combination of functions (this is well illustrated in the video) and thereby major savings in energy. It will allow optimization of land use, and the creation of micro-grids that can be more responsive to fluctuating need and supply.
The next speaker was Ernst von Weizsacker , Dean of the School of Environmental Science and Management at UCSB, who noted that applications for admission to that school and the environmental program had tripled over the past nine months, in apparent recognition of the growing problem. Now I am going to have to step out of just straight reporting and, for reasons I will go into in more detail tomorrow, expand a little on what I think he said next.
He was talking about the talk that Dr James Hansen gave at UCSB last week on the impact of global warming, and I presume since the titles were the same it was likely close to this set of slides (pdf . What Dr Hansen had noted was the need for society to understand that it is too timid in speculation in regard to non-linear events. And as illustration of this he noted that about 800 years ago the ice pack over Labrador and Hudson Bay collapsed almost instantaneously creating a water level rise that showed, in coastal changes, of some 7 – 8 m. This was relatively rapid and his point (based on slides 23 and 24 in the above, which Dean von Weizsacker showed) is that those conditions, which can occur with unanticipated ferocity and speed, are occurring again over Greenland. (And I think that what he was referring to are what are known as an Heinrich event which is associated with Dansgaard-Oeschger conditions . The movement of the ice is exacerbated by the generation of freshwater flows within the ice, and below it, dropping the intra-structural friction and allowing sudden, and catastrophic movement. A condition, which is very similar to what we have now. Sometime later in the day one of the audience noted that the conference announcement slide shows an aerial view of the campus, pointing out that with such a water level rise UCSB would likely be underwater, including the hall wherein we were sitting.
I tried to recreate the greater picture because I believe that the point was that we are expecting this crisis to unfold slowly and with plenty of warning. This breeds a lack of urgency in seeking solutions. (As another example, when we talk about oil peaking - the concern is somewhat ameliorated if we say that there will be a long plateau before the decline). But history suggests that this may not be the case, and rather that a disaster can unfold with speeds beyond that allowing unprepared remediation.
Thus, if we are looking at the effects of increased CO2 levels on global warming, when levels are soon expected to double, when the urgency in reducing emissions by 60-80% is lost, then we open the future to the possibility of disaster.
The Dean had been heavily involved in energy research in Germany before coming to UCSB and talked with pride of their wind efforts, until he put up the slide that showed, in reality, how little that program was contributing to Germany’s overall energy supply. He then asked how many kWh it would take to carry a bucket of water weighing 20 lb from sea-level to the top of Mount Everest (answer at the bottom of the page) – after all this is academia and spot quizzes are still, I suppose, the norm. The point is that that power is still ridiculously cheap. He had written a book with Amory Lovins entitled Factor 4 showing a path to enhancing energy performance, reducing water and material consumption.
He noted that both he and Amory Lovins believe that there are many pathways to make dramatic reductions in the energy that we use. Passive house designs can reduce heating costs by 90%, refrigerator power can be dropped from 1,190 to 50 watts, with water use falling from 750 liters/kg to 1.5 liters in paper making. Modern Japanese practices lower the energy cost of making steel by a factor of 4. And it does not need to be new technology, while in Germany he looked at the transportation paths used in making strawberry yoghurt, and by only changing paths not the trucks themselves, found he could save significant energy.
There have been five technical waves of development in the past – we are now ripe for, and desperately need, the sixth wave. But to get it we have to change our mind set, and our level of complacency. We did not see great changes in labor productivity until the price of labor went up, and energy can be treated in much the same way.
In questions he noted that Santa Barbara has a plan to be carbon free by 33, but noted that this depends on many issues and that the scope for communities was limited. (Though it was interesting to wander around the student poster sessions at the break and see that UCSB has a group that is monitoring and improving the energy use in its research labs – ouch!).
There was then a panel discussion led by David Rohy and including Gary Barsley , Michal Moore , and Byron Washcom . They were asked first to define sustainability, David Rohy bemoaned the change in culture – for example who, today, repairs a toaster, or uses a solar clothes drier (a clothes line). And, to modest embarrassment of the speakers – who were using them, he pointed out the energy cost of bottled water. There are also the unintended consequences of change – the more energy efficient use of fluorescent lights has spread mercury, it takes four gallons of water to make a gallon of ethanol, and crime flourishes along public transportation routes. And when we start installing hydrogen filling stations can we anticipate the NIMBY attacks? It’s the culture, stupid!
Gary Barsley saw the crisis as an opportunity for entrepreneurship with the students (and again – out in the courtyard was a poster by one of the student Engineers without Borders projects, where they are encouraging the growth and harvesting of Jatropha in Mali). With an ageing work force how does industry attract the “best and the brightest” – his answer was to provide a sustainable environment. He did object to plans for a local LNG port, he feels that installing one just delays the need to face the fact of energy depletion.
Michal Moore, with a Canadian perspective, asked if the object was to conserve or preserve ? Is the world a series of polaroid shots, where answers, once found, are installed and forgotten, or is it a movie, where the challenges are constantly reviewed and answers updated. He expressed concern about the 2-m dams holding the mining waste at the Athabasca Oil Sands, given that, should they fail, the silt will enter the Athabasca River, which will carry it up to the Arctic Sea, and the fish breeding grounds.
We must learn to ask the right questions, which might have led to butanol rather than corn ethanol (butanol might be better harvested from sugar beets – to answer a question I got asked at lunch). Alternately using porous brick with grass in the hollows would allow sidewalks that would allow rainfall to immediately percolate the ground instead of flooding into drains. We must create standards and enforce them, relying on volunteers does not work! And price can be a signal.
Byron Washom brought an interestingly different viewpoint to the discussion, since his early childhood had been passed on a small island, far from the mainland, where they had to subsist on a gallon of water a day, with power coming from a diesel he named after his sister (since he never knew when it would cooperate), and where he did not associate the word “fresh” with meat”, but thought “freshfish” was one word. He noted that, in the coming crisis, it will be the poorer populations that will suffer earliest and worst, even though they have contributed least to the problem. Current demand for power in California is 60 GWe per year, but the growth of energy use in China exceeds 65 GWe a year, so that they are adding the equivalent of a Californian energy demand every year, using a set of technologies that will impose a 50-year mortgage that none of us can pay. It is thus important, not only that we create all the innovations that we can, but also that we make them available around the world.
From that point of view, the “sixth wave” of technical progress should be a disruptive wave, rather than one of logical progression. The energy business, because it has been heavily regulated for so long, is one of the slowest to adapt and needs that sort of action. He noted that when Prime Minister Blair introduced the initiative to work on global warming issues at the Gleneagles G-8 summit two years ago, he initially received a positive response for the governments attending. However, when the price of some $10-30 billion/year was presented those nations choked. He noted that this was not because of the reality of the message, but because of the price.
And yet the price need not be without return. In comments from the floor Dr. Alan Sweidler of CSU-San Diego pointed out that Tijuana has doubled its population without increasing water use, through an improvement in efficiency. Yet in Southern California they pay 32,000 kWh to move an acre-foot of water from the North to satisfy their demand. We have a culture that focuses on demand, with 80% of GDP based on consumer spending. And thus, yes, price can be a control. However, having come back from testifying before an Energy Committee in Congress he pointed out that there is zero, nada, zilch stomach for raising prices or taxes in this Congress.
To which Michal Moore retorted “the boomers are in power and are going to get run over by a very big train – and God Speed!” They are out of tune, out of date and should soon be out of office.
He talked about a Canadian solution, which is to start off with a minimal charge for the cost of energy/carbon generation. At this price no-one notices. But each year it is slowly increased. And gradually, over the years, it becomes significant – and creative folks start to find ways to use that cost to introduce change, and so, after 30-years, when the price has become severe, the culture has been changed.
However, it was also pointed out, that while it is great to be in vogue (and if I had suggested that Global Warming was not occurring I suspect I would have been held until men in white coats could be summoned to take me away, with the unanimous approval of all the audience), but the public are intolerant of the time that it takes for remediation. Thus, as the price becomes more evident, without visible solution, then the current popularity of the position will quickly fade into an adverse reaction.
There was then a break for lunch, while the video mentioned earlier was screened (it looked a bit science-fictiony but you should check it out for yourself, by getting a copy, since I only saw the end bit, and it is only 17 minutes long. Incidentally it was part of an international competition and placed second – Vancouver won).
After lunch Mike Corradini was the first of the speakers dealing with energy choices. The first session dealt with the nuclear option, with the background that, while the world population is growing, as is their energy demand, the majority of that growth is taking place in Asia, with rates of demand increase that exceed 8%. He noted that while the US is criticized for the share of energy that they use, as a percentage it has dropped from 50% of global use, some 50 years ago, to the present where it is about 22%. Yet it is the vital physical force that underpins the global system, and thus resources that provide that supply are critical.
In this regard he reviewed the amount of uranium that is available, as a function of supply, yet with cost a significant part of the choice. Nuclear power stations now run at more than 90% capacitance factor, and with costs of around 2.5 cents/kWh (coal is 4 cents/kWh) in part because the plants are older. But while in the short term improved energy production efficiency is the key, the question must be asked as to whether this should be driven by cost or by law.
He showed a slide with a rainbow ending in a Wisconsin nuclear plant, and noted the legend. Yet the last order for a plant in the US was in 1972, and it was completed in 1982, and the US still outproduces the combined nuclear power of France and Japan.
To meet demand, of the 104 plants in operation, 44 have been upgraded and approved for a 20-year plant operating extension; 34 have applied for such a permit, and 22 are in the process of getting one together. While recognizing that Chernobyl was a terrible design he noted that “there has not been a loss of life in the US due to commercial nuclear plants,” over teir life of operation to date. In the United States the constant vigilance to ensure that plants are upgraded with reliable replacement of components. All nuclear waste, to date, is securely stored and at 50,000 tons total would occupy a volume no greater than 2-3 times that of the hall in which the Conference was being held.
He reviewed the anticipated progress in nuclear plant design, and where new plants are likely to go in, but pointed out that nuclear is in competition with coal, and prices must be sufficiently realistic if the right choice is to be made. He considered nuclear use in providing process heat to supply other energy needs, the use of power stations to provide the process heat for Synfuel production, and also reviewed ways in which to minimize waste generation.
Two comments from the floor included one that nuclear costs should also include the costs incurred in mining and processing, and another that if the world is to see an increase in nuclear power then the populace should be convinced that it is needed.
Mujid Kazimi from MIT (the organizers found it very difficult to get industry spokespeople for this event) reviewed some of the Myths that have arisen about nuclear power. He further noted that while there has been no new permitting of nuclear plants, some plants had previously been permitted, but had then been mothballed, and one of these, in Tennessee, is going to come on line next year.
He felt that popular opinion is skewed against the reality of the situation, and re-emphasized the reliability of the nuclear stations. Further the power that they generate does not, in itself, have the military and geopolitical consequences that we are now seeing from the need for transportation fuels. He noted (in disabusing some of the myths) that nuclear power is not in decline, is not dangerous, is not too expensive, produces tolerable amounts of waste and does not lead to weapons proliferation.
The only real competition to future growth comes from coal power plants, and there are 100 of them on the nations drawing boards. Wind only works 30% of the time and it is nuclear that provides a great portion of the nations base load at an economic price. It is a technology that is, in relative terms, still new enough that it can be considerably improved, and there are lots of new ideas around of which he cited two, new fuel designs to give 50% more power per unit volume) and nanotechnology to solve some of the cooling problems and to up the power density.
A standard house consumes 2,400 kWh/year of energy which will generate 0.3 gms of fission products in 9 gm of uranium, wste is thus minimal relative to other energy producers. In 2004 the world used 0.07 million tons of uranium ore and so current reserves will last for several decades. Extraction and conversion costs run about $48/kg and $1/MWh is paid to the government for fuel disposal.
He discussed waste storage issues and gave a figure of 70 watts of heat per spent fuel assembly after a thousand years of storage. And while the debate over the fate of Yucca Mountain as a storage site is yet to be resolved there is really not hurry since the waste is currently safely stored (though expensive to the utilities storing it). There is a debate as to what should be done with plutonium, if it is burned in nuclear power plants (as in France) the storage life needed drops to a few hundred years.
He then talked about other possible uses for nuclear power, as an energy source for EOR for example, or in the oil sands, though if it were to be used to provide the energy for the oil shale development a higher-temperature reactor would need to be used to reach the temperatures needed for that process (at least as foreseen in the Shell method). It can provide base heat and hydrogen for refineries, and can be used to make synfuels and liquid fuels with a lower CO2 impact from production. And by changing from steam to Helium or carbon dioxide in the plants, size can be reduced considerably.
He noted that, because of perceived (rather than real) risks, nuclear power plants must pay a premium of 4% to lending institutions over that charged to those building coal-fired plants, and if that disincentive were removed, he believes that nuclear power would be introduced more rapidly into use.
When asked about the risks of earthquakes to stored waste at sites such as Diablo Canyon, he discussed the design of the individual storage units, where the contents are not pressurized, so that even in the unlikely case that the unit was breached, the contents would only slowly leak out.
The discussion then switched to coal, with Tim Appenzeller of National Geographic, who, as a journalist, had more of an outsiders view of the industry, that the stronger proponent oriented talks that were given on nuclear power. And yet such a need to sell the industry was un-necessary since, as his title noted :The Future is Black” which could be taken to mean that the future is coal, or that the problems that coal brings will darken our future prospects. And in fact his talk covered both aspects. In terms of greenhouse gases (GHG) oil and gas are mere pipsqueaks, relative to the amount of CO2 that is going to be injected into the air from the power plants that are coming. The volumes are likely to generate an atmosphere that will be equivalent to that which prevailed at the time of the Eocene., and the Arctic was sub-tropical. He noted the retreat of the glaciers, and that the rivers of clear water on the Greenland ice sheets were inducing massive instability. This is already giving problems, due to higher water levels in Bengal and the Maldives.
As a study of coal development he recommended “Coal – A Human History,” by Barbara Freese (Amazon says it only has 3 left, since I just ordered one). In that book the introduction of coal to London is given as first happening in 1306, but the stench of the smog was such that the King banned its use, until the deforestation of England meant that there was no alternative, nor source to produce horse shoes. It did give England, and the world, the Industrial Revolution, but also the peas soup fogs of the 50’s and early 60’s.
And so coal is again the fuel of the future, demand is rising faster than for any other fuel, it is cheap and abundant. While Peak Oil and Peak natural gas are here, there is enough coal, at current use levels, to last 200 years (100 in China). Coal is no longer the old dirty fuel that it was once considered to be, and the discussion of factors such as acid rain have disappeared from the front pages of the world. Labor intensities of production have fallen dramatically, and safety (outside of China) records are growing. It can either be gasified or liquefied, with China now having their first CTL plant, set to produce 20,000 bd at a cost of around $30 a barrel. In Illinois there is a fertilizer plant that is set to turn coal into synthetic diesel (though running a Prius on the fuel would, due to the conversion process put more CO2 into the air than from running an SUV).
Which illustrates the fact that coal is often an invisible fuel. The house owner who flips a clean switch on a white wall does not see electricity as coming from coal, nor as a dirty. The Internet user that moves 10 meg of data is not aware that they are using the energy from 2 lb of coal to do so, and so the public is unaware of the situation.
Without that awareness there will be no change, a conventional light bulb uses the power from 500 lb of coal that could be saved by changing to alternate lighting, but only 1 house in 15 has converted to the newer bulbs. So power demand rises, and the climate gets warmer. And with China set to overtake the US in GHG production within two years, they are unlikely to change their power generation methods, and so, the argument goes, “why should we?”
Thus the hope is that solutions such as sequestration of the carbon dioxide be considered, and so he concluded by discussing the different options for CO2 capture from power plants, since we are burning our best fuel source in the worst way.
To answer that challenge, or to better explain the situation Sally Benson from Lawrence Berkeley then talked about what carbon sequestration (underground injection and storage of the gas) entailed. After reviewing the inevitability of coal, she talked about the steps that must be undertaken to achieve sequestration. Firstly the CO2 must be captured from the power plant. This can be done, to differing degrees, before or after combustion (before entails a gasification phase – the IGCC power plants ). A conventional fuel stack gas only contains 14% CO2 and this is thus difficult to capture, and amine solutions have proved to be the best at this. (They absorb the gas, and are pumped away and heated so that when the gas is then emitted and recaptured it is in a much purer form). The third way of dealing with the problem is to burn the coal in an oxygen environment (known as the the Oxyfuel process ). There is apparently no current favorite for which technology will give the best results, IGCC had the lead, but conventional approaches are making a come-back.
Once the gas is captured it must be transported, and can then be pumped underground. There are three favored sites, as an aid in enhanced oil recovery , in deep saline formations, and in un-mineable coal seams.
With the gas (which must be buried deep enough that it liquefies and becomes supercritical) being lighter than water there is some concern to ensure that it remains trapped. The only major demonstration so far has been at the Sleipner oil field off Norway. However seismic surveys have proved that the site can be monitored and the security of the storage checked. The data suggests that the security is anticipated to be 99% over a period of 1,000 years. And there is the capacity to store more than a hundred years of production.
The final speaker in the session was Frank Alix who spoke about the benefits of using ammonia rather than amines for carbon capture. However, as he pointed out, the power stations are mandated to install “the best available technology,” so he can’t get a site for a full-scale test, since the first successful power station test will mandate that all stations would have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars making the conversions to the new system.
Both he and Sally recognized that sequestration would add significantly to the cost of burning the coal, or more relevantly to the consumer, to the price of electricity. And doubling the cost of a watt is not likely to be popular or accepted under the current situation. Thus while those who see the benefits are often supportive (such as NGO’s) the public acceptance is likely to be much more difficult.
The final panel was under the supervision of Daniel Weiss and included Sanjoy Banerjee (who I had met at the reception the evening before), Bill Freudenburg a sociologist, and Tim Appenzeller. In that discussion the time scale of the proposed solutions, relative to the imminence of the problem did come up, but the discussion seemed to focus more on whether consumers would pay more for remediation, with the conclusion being NO. Tim asked “How does one get people to care about an abstract process?” and without pain at the pump or switch, it won’t happen.
And on that slightly discouraging note, the conference was really over, though there was a PR presentation from USBC and a stunning presentation of some of the results of the work by Shuji Nakamura on the development of the blue/green LEDs and the power saving that can be achieved with the use of these devices.
And so we left, out into a wet evening, much better informed, and enlightened, yet with some discouragement at the prospects. Oh, and thanks Jim for your tolerence of my scribbling through all the presentations, I appreciated your comments on this site, but modesty forebade that I admit my identity.
(Quiz answer quarter of a kWh)



This is the source of the indirect oil (and energy) savings that building Urban Rail creates. A substantial minority of people WANT the TOD (Transit Orientated Design) choice IF it is available today, with low oil prices.
As we shift into post-Peak Oil that minority will grow. But we are FAR from satisfying that demand today.
Best Hopes,
Alan
My plan to reduce US oil use by 10% in ten to twelve years
http://www.lightrailnow.org/features/f_lrt_2006-05a.htm
A list of "on-the-shelf" Urban Rail projects that I have developed (any oversights welcomed)
Albuquerque – Light Rail and Commuter Rail plans
Atlanta - Beltway Light Rail, Northern suburbs Light Rail extension, downtown streetcar
Austin - Two Light Rail Lines plus Commuter rail and downtown streetcars
Baltimore - East-West Light Rail Line, 4 mile extension to current subway
Birmingham AL – Streetcar lines
Boston - All rail plans promised as environmental offset to "Big Dig" Buffalo - Planned extensions to current light rail subway
Charlotte - All plans currently scheduled
Chicago – Expansions to Metra, South Shore Line
Cincinnati –Light Rail plans voted down
Columbus OH – Light Rail and streetcar lines
Corpus Christi TX – Streetcar line
Dallas - All plans through 2015 and all 2015-2030 options (roughly 145 mile system)
Dayton OH – Streetcar plans
Denver - 117 miles of Light Rail and Commuter Rail (already locally funded)
El Paso – Downtown to Border Light Rail
Ft. Lauderdale – Light Rail and streetcar plans under active development
Honolulu – Line currently under development
Houston - All plans voted for, 65 new miles light rail 8 miles commuter
Indianapolis – Light Rail Line plans
Kansas City – Light Rail Line proposed
Las Vegas – Light Rail plans
Little Rock – Short extensions of existing streetcar line, Light Rail line
Los Angeles - Red Line "Subway to the Sea", Vermont Avenue subway, XX miles of Light Rail, electric trolley bus plan, electrify commuter rail
Louisville KY – Light Rail line plans
Madison WS – Streetcar and Commuter Rail plans
Memphis – At least two Light Lines in comprehensive plan
Miami - 103 miles of elevated Rapid Rail (subway type) + Miami Beach streetcar (already locally funded) 90% of the population would be within 3 miles of a station, half within 2 miles of a station
Minneapolis-St. Paul - Central Light Rail connector between the cities, Northstar commuter rail
Missoula MN – Commuter Rail
Nashville – Commuter Rail in process
New Orleans – Desire Streetcar Line, Riverfront Streetcar Line extensions
New York City - 2nd Avenue Subway, 3rd Tunnel under Hudson, Penn to Grand Central connection, Staten Island Light Rail, New Jersey Light Rail extension, commuter rail improvements
Norfolk – Light Rail Plans in progress
Ogden UT – Streetcar plans
Orange County CA – Center Line Light Rail plan voted down
Orlando – Light Rail plan voted down
Philadelphia – City Branch, Roosevelt Blvd. extension of Broad Street subway
Phoenix - 90 miles of Light Rail already approved Pittsburgh - Two Light Rail Lines north from current, under construction line Portland - Green Line (both routes, one funded, other "studied" for future), Streetcar both sides river
Raleigh-Durham NC – Streetcar plans
Sacramento – Additional Light Rail expansion
San Antonio – Light Rail plans voted down
St. Louis - All plans evaluated, perhaps 100 mile system
Salem OR – Streetcar plans Salt Lake City - 90 miles of Light Rail, streetcar and Commuter Rail (vote soon to accelerate)
San Diego - Light Rail spur to North, another to West
San Francisco - New TransBay tunnel, trolley line, BART extension, eBART, Marin-Sonoma commuter rail, CalTrain extension to downtown TransBay Terminal
San Jose - BART extension, several Light Rail extensions
Seattle – Proposed north extension
Spokane – Light Rail line planned
Tampa – 1992 and later plans
Toledo OH – Streetcar plans
Tuscon AZ – Streetcar plans
Washington DC – Tyson’s Corner-Dulles extension, Purple Line, 40 miles of streetcar lines in DC, Columbia Pike Light Rail Winston-Salem NC – Streetcar plans
Are you sure that a minority want the Transit Oriented Design? I know that at least in sweden is it hardest to find an a apartment in the three largest cities and it is in these cities the best public transport is avaible.
I've assembled a review of market preference surveys and forecasts at The Market for Mixed Use & Walkability. In general, about one-third of the American public has a preference for transit- and pedestrian-oriented neighborhoods with attached and small-lot housing. However, the preference rates for specific features vary considerably, from 15% all the way up to 75%, depending on the population sampled and the features in question.
What's more, the forecasts for market preferences over the next 20-35 years project big changes in the demographic makeup of the American population, and an associated increase in demand for transit/pedestrian oriented communities. Some researchers are forecasting there will be no demand whatsoever for new, large-lot, exurban McMansions by the year 2025.
I am afraid that at this late date, we are kind of stuck with what housing we have. Once peak oil ( and natural gas) hits, there will be much less building. If nothing else, (people and businesses) will not be able to get 20 or 30 year mortgages. As a result, if we want more density, it will have to be families moving together into a subset of the existing housing stock. If this is planned correctly, it can greatly reduce the fuel needed for natural gas heating. It might also make public transportation more feasible.
With 2/3rds the building materials used in 2006 (and related energy), I believe that we could build much more energy efficent housing (comfortable, desireable) for twice as many people.
The fellow I am helping repair & improve his shotgun house (12' x 36' + 7' x 8' bathroom added on) lives comfortably as do I in my small apartment (1890s house cut up into 6 apartments). So existing housing & commerical.industrial structures can be adapted to denser living; although even this takes copper, labor, insulation, walls, etc. Just less energy & materials.
The annual energy savings by boarding up most McMansions could build housing for a large # of people. So I do not see the US as being completely trapped with our current Urban Form.
The US made a major transition in Urban Form from 1950 to 1970+. We can do it again.
Best Hopes,
Alan
Alan,
I love your posts. I like your thinking. But at heart, you are a cornucopian who is trying to maintain the status quo. The core of your beliefs, I believe, is that the changes you suggest will somehow allow a consumptive, consumer society to continue. If that isn't the case, why do people need the kinds of transport you advocate? And, I might include goods transportation.
We could pack a zillion people into a compact cube where they never had to go anywhere. Ever. And, it would sure be energy efficient. But this isn't what I believe you believe.
I would argue that, to use the trite expression, it might be better to give the "man" 40 acres and a mule than the direction you essentially advocate.
Todd
If your root goal in using this site is to plot the downfall of society, do it somewhere else. A cabin on 400 acres, perhaps.
Most of us prefer finding a way to preserve human life and our current way of life - anything that can mitigate peak oil and global warming is a blessing, not a stumbling block on the way to apocalypse/communism/hippydom.
BTW Alan: you might have missed my reply in our last discussion, as it was posted a few days after the thread was.
We do not have enough mules ! And given the population shifts from rural to urban and then to suburban; I support a shift back to urban from suburban more than a shift all the way back to rural.
Quite frankly, a human scale urban life can be more rewarding and socially benefical than an isolated rural or suburban existance for most people.
I think that the social isolation of suburbia results in much of the shopping mall "entertainment"/consumptive behavior. I think that a walking neighborhood with Urban rail can result in a significantly higher quality of life with far fewer resources being consumed. That may make me cornucopian, but that is *N*O*T* the "status quo" (except for me personally and a few other New Orleanians :-)
OTOH, After the ASPO conference, I toured (with a group) the soon to be opened Greenbush commuter rail project south of Boston. It linked a series of New England villages with an average population (guess) of 20,000; Braintree, Weymouth, Hingham, Cohasset, Scituate and Greenbush. Another alternative, suburban living on a human scale that could become low energy. Cluster more around the new train station; walking and biking locally. Not for me, but a viable low energy alternative post-Peak Oil for others.
And the "40 acres & a mule" with a trip to town every other Friday (weather permitting) will satisfy others.
We have 300 million Americans. One size does not fit all. But my solution could fit a majority (perhaps a slim majority) of Americans.
Best Hopes,
Alan
A 12' x 36' home with a 7' x 8' bathroom added on is not what I would consider a "consumptive" lifestyle. Yes, in-door plumbing (which I like and support :-) aand more space than the average Chinese (or Japanese) but not dramatically more.
I would rather consume good music, great tasting food, beautiful architechure and enjoy my neighbors than mall shopping, etc. None of the above requires large amounts of energy or other material resources.
Good music takes no more energy (perhaps less) than Britney Spears, great tasting food (using mainly local ingredients) may use less resources than a Happy Meal from McDonalds, Beautiful architecture takes little more than strip malls & McMansions and spending time with your neighbors uses far less energy than commuting alone everyday in a SUV.
Yes, I want to "consume", but not the stereotypical American pattern of consumption.
Best Hopes,
Alan
Metric: 3.7 m x 14.75 m home with 2.1 m x 2.2 m bathroom
That whole quote taken from the conference was very confusing to me:
"In the United States, for example, 80% of the population lives in cities. Their buildings, transportation and urban infrastructure account for 80% of U.S. energy consumption, and 70% of that amount is determined by how and where Americans design their neighborhoods. Low-density development in the U.S. consumes 85% more energy, 70 times more water, 50 times more lumber and 40 times more land than higher-density development of the same square footage.
Note the first part "In the United States, for example, 80% of the population lives in cities. Their buildings, transportation and urban infrastructure account for 80% of U.S. energy consumption..." Now, as the quote goes on to say " Low-density development in the U.S. consumes 85% more energy", would this not mean that as a percent of their population, city dwellers would consume far less than the one to one match of their poplulation by percent that is the 80% of America living in the city would not consume the full 80% percent of America's energy? In fact, if less dense dwelling folks consumed 85% more, then most at least half of all energy would be consumed by the percent living in less densely poplulated areas (!?) (Unless of course much of the "less dense" areas are being incorporated into the "city", thus confusing an already confused count)
The whole advantage of massively increased population density as somehow being of advantage in reducing fossil fuel consumption needs a great deal more study. There are the Kunstler types who hated the suburban development pattern to the core of their being long before the "peak" issue was even thought of, and much of what passes for an "energy" discussion is actually an aesthetic preference debate. There are those who hate the city and those who hate the suburbs and rural living. In many cases their conjecture begins from the point of their hatred for these living arrangements and NOT from any factually demonstrated proof of energy consumption per se, given the wide variety of living/consumptive arrangements in both town and country.
Roger Conner Jr.
Remember, we are only one cubic mile from freedom.
Ultimately the best reason to live in a town or urban neighborhood is because it has a better quality of life, in the view of the people who choose to live there. Freedom of choice is what there should be more of.
Academic studies have shown that well designed neighborhoods with a minimum density (around 6-8 dwellings per acre) have substantially less VMT, gasoline use, and emissions. But that's just lagniappe for most people, assuming they have even heard about it.
I too would like to see the research support for the quote about buildings, transportation and urban infrastructure. The numbers imply much greater benefits for high-density development than I have seen in the literature.
I used to live in a city that had about 10 dwellings/acre. It covered 45 sq mi. Just about anything I wanted to buy was within 10 miles. I worked for the local transit authority and knew how to get pretty close to wherever I wanted to go without using a car. I rarely used the bus unless I was going where I had to pay to park. Therein lies a conservation incentive rarely talked about which is what I would call a parking space tax. People drive because there is no charge for parking at Walmart and the malls. The cost of parking along with available public transit is why car use is much lower in NYC. Add a $5 parking charge to every purchase at Walmart and people will take fewer trips but purchase more per trip. Use the money to eliminate bus fares and improve the service and watch gasoline use go down.
I now live at the edge of a small Iowa town 30 miles from the nearest Walmart. It currently costs me about $5 worth of gas to make the round trip a few times per month. The population density around here is 1/100th what it is in the city I used to live in. Public transit is a twice a day stop by a bus that goes between Des Moines and Kansas City. The 20% who do not live in urban areas must continue to use cars. We may find ways to use them less but we must still use them.
I agree that there needs to be more research on energy savings via Urban Form. When I have time I will contact the author.
However, I simply KNOW, by living, that I use far less than, say my brothers (Phoenix & Austin). I am unsure about my sister (Manhatten).
Pre-Katrina, New York City and New Orleans were statistically tied for the fewest miles driven per capita by residents (excluding suburbanites driving in). New Orleans was on a far more human scale and should serve as a model for the rest of the nation. I live in one of the best "Old Urbanism" neighborhoods in New Orleans (Lower Garden District). In many ways, the "creme de la creme" of fine, low energy living :-))
Best Hopes,
Alan
Climate is weather over thousands of years and just like weather; climate can change suddenly. I hope TOD readers will take the time to follow Heading Out’s future discussion on low-probability, catastrophic climate changes, as this topic has been poorly addressed in the general media. These types of changes occur rarely under natural conditions because natural drivers of change are infrequent. Of course, at this moment humans are a massive driver of climate change and the probabilities of dramatic and sudden change have to be much higher.
Thanks again for the post! the quote below intrigued me:
"From that point of view, the “sixth wave” of technical progress should be a disruptive wave, rather than one of logical progression. The energy business, because it has been heavily regulated for so long, is one of the slowest to adapt and needs that sort of action. He noted that when Prime Minister Blair introduced the initiative to work on global warming issues at the Gleneagles G-8 summit two years ago, he initially received a positive response for the governments attending. However, when the price of some $10-30 billion was presented those nations choked. He noted that this was not because of the reality of the message, but because of the price."
The "sixth wave" of tech progress? I did not know there were six. Any elaboration?
The energy business is slow to adapt because of heavy regulation? I thought the opposite would be true. Is this a real observation or simply an excuse thrown out to cover the energy industry's own inertia and unwillingness to confront the huge environmental issues we face -- scarcening resources and global warming?
No one is willing to pay the price now for sustainable infrastructure and planning. That I find easy to believe. We are psychotically divorced from reality, are we not?
No wonder the summit seemed to end with a fizzle and a pop. My own impression is that plenty of "green" business people are interested in developing sustainable energy projects, but that government and "the market" don't want to pay for them. Just burn more coal, etc.
"No change." Or was there more hope than that?
I think that we should make the wave disruptive by banning all new coal project, including all those on the drawing board, and by the way, all those planned for Texas.
tstreet,
This is exactly the kind of thinking that has caused delays up until now. "Ban coal" or "lets use Hydrogen" or "lets use ethanol" are all bandwagons that people jump on, that prevent them from seeing other solutions. The problem is GHGs, so ban those. If the Texas coal industry can find a way to sequester, good for them.
Banning coal isn't going to happen. They're trying it in California, but it won't work everywhere. We must be somewhat pragmatic. The place to start is on the consumption side. We should ban all televisions that draw more than 200 watts, all refrigerators that draw more than 500 kWh/yr avg. Light bulbs should not be sold over x watts, new cars should be required to get 30 mpg minimum, etc., etc. While we're at it we should ban private jets, yachts, sporting events, especially motor sports and houses over 3000 sq. ft. Think I could get elected on that platform?
Why not start by eliminating NASCAR!!
All we have to eliminate NASCAR is to turn our 300W tvs off while it's on. The advertisers will do the rest for us.
:-)
I think that the organizers are anticipating putting up some of the presentations on the web. This could only be a very short review of all that was said, and could not include the slides and a lot of the underlying information that was given.
You could go back and look at the site in a week or two and maybe they will have it posted (that's where I got the info on last years conference).
HO
Huh? If this means anything important, how did I miss it in history class? Surely the sea level didn't abruptly rise that much around the year 1200? If it means the North Sea coastline shifted 7-8m laterally, well, that slope is so extremely shallow that, well, so what?
Yeah, I noticed that too so will add this reply, hoping it draws some attention and maybe an answer.
A 1999 study by INSTAAR's Don Barber and colleagues showed the collapse of two gigantic glacial lakes near Hudson Bay about 8,000 years ago poured enough fresh water into the Northern Atlantic to shut down the ocean circulation for several centuries, cooling Europe and Greenland by some 6 degrees F.
The last 8,000 years have been remarkably stable in terms of climate, considering the large temperature fluctuations, said Lehman. "By altering the environment through greenhouse gas emissions, we will likely find out how fragile the stability of Earth's climate really is. We may well find out we are dealing with a hair trigger." [link]
I googled "little ice age" and came up with quite a few hits noting that Europe was quite warm from about 800 CE to about 1200 CE.
From about 1200 to about 1900 there was a "little ice age that made things pretty tough.
I googled "ice pack collapse over hudson bay" and got some cool hits as well.
IIRC, Al Gore has a graphic showing a huge ice melt freeing the fresh water ocean (that preceded the Great Lakes of NA)which scooped out the river valley all the way to the Atlantic. I think this was during the last great ice age, but I'm just going from memory. Could be wrong -- could have been 8,000 years ago.
No more time to search now. Lots of cool info and plenty of hot climate sites to choose from, though.
800 years ago the ice pack over Labrador and Hudson Bay collapsed almost instantaneously
I think that should be 8000 years ago. Cenozoic climatology was along time ago, but that's what I recall...vaguely.
Ask and it shall be given. Seek and ye shall find.
Thank you all. Mystery resolved.
I was hoping that someone that had heard Dr Hansen would have been able to tell us more, since I was reporting a second hand accounting of the presentation through the Dean. I couldn't find much of a reference to guide you to either, but then I didn't spend a huge amount of time looking, and I or the Dean, may have garbled some of the facts - but thanks.
HO