DrumBeat: June 13, 2006
Posted by threadbot on June 13, 2006 - 9:30am
Topic: Miscellaneous
Now for some wise words from the readers of The Oil Drum...
190 comments on DrumBeat: June 13, 2006
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GAIA Host Collective
Matthew Simmons on Glenn Beck Show - CNN, Last night
Here's a little excerpt from the transcript of the show...
Beck actually ticked me off a bit with the ending statements where he jokes and said "No, I'm going to let my kids worry about it." I know that he was kidding but he's sending the wrong message to the public.
My $.02
-C.
In reply, Gore gave a one sentence explanation of peak oil.
I almost fell off my chair. I can't wait to see the transcript!
I just posted this over on Stuart's BP Thread as well
"I don't watch (consume) much MSM anymore. But last night, oddly, the satellite was 'out' for the two channels I do watch - FSTV and LINK - while it was working for others, including PBS and CNN. (big brother, anyone?) So I watched the end of the PBS news talking about the assassination of Zarqawi. Nothing illuminating. But then there was a several-minute self promo for PBS. Images of women, children, college students, earnest young men... soothing music in the background...text showing poll data to the effect of PBS/Newshour being "the most trusted source of news". I was almost lulled to sleep, it was working, I was being indoctrinated, trust us... trust us... it'll all be OK... trust us... It was just too creepy. I honestly felt like I was being set up for THE BIG LIE.
Then I switched over to CNN Headline news - just for a peek, just for a moment. There was a guy on - Glenn Beck - with what I can only describe as a Letterman-like take on the news. He asked rhetorically if Americans celebrating the death of Zarqawi were the same as Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11 (which assumes that any really did that - unstaged, that is). He proceeded to answer his question by stating unequivocally that no, it's not the same, because "we just got a real bad guy'. He made mocking comments about Zarqawi not being greeted in heaven by virgins but rather being faced with some demeaning fate that was meant to be humor but that was just disgusting and that I've blocked out. Then - and I really can't believe this - he cut to his lackey on the streets of Manhattan (again, this was CNN at 7 pm and seemed really, really, like the most distasteful of late night 'comedy') who had a pork-pie or bacon cake to mock Islam with lettering along the lines of "Happy Zarqawi Death Day". He was to go do some "man in the street interviews". I'd seen (way more than) enough, and turned it off at that point.
My point is that this is what's now accepted by this society. Celebrating death. Mocking religion. (not that I'm any fan of religion). But juvenile, immature, sophomoric, imbecilic - we don't even have words ( or at least I don't know them) for the depths to which we have sunk. And to quote James Earl Jones - This is CNN. Pardon my language but WTF is going on that we accept this!?! We pay for it. We condone it. We support it (if only by our silence). We're making enemies and things worse and fools of ourselves every time our culture opens its collective mouth. Please excuse me while I go throw up."
What you heard & saw was the inevitable outcome of the Invisible Hand guiding our news professionals ever so gently down that slippery slope from being "professional and trustable reporters of facts" to be becoming the pandering clowns of commercialism and infotainment.
Competition always causes us to be the best that we can be.
The best clowns and money licking fools.
Picture Congressmen on their knees, crawling after and licking the behinds of lobbyists --they're addicted to campaign contributions.
Picture Newsmen on their knees, crawling after & licking the behinds of advertisers --they're addicted to commercial contributions.
Picture us licking our TV tubes --we're addicted to crap.
Where did these numbers come from? 9 MBD, IEA says 9.35, EIA I think says 9.2... somewhere else I've heard it's less... why the disparity in numbers?
-C.
The same article has the following quote "Saudi Oil Minister Ali Naimi, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal published last week, said the country's April output averaged 9.1 million b/d, its lowest level since January 2005."
-C.
Looks more like Wallstreet has decided we are headed for high interest rates and a stagnant/shrinking economy. Gold prices, the stock market and oil all collapsing at once.
I forget. Which president was it who declared that white house staffers weren't allowed to say the word recession? Bush 1? They had to use the word "bannana" instead.
Ahh Recession, yes... take a look down below as I'm really having a hard time selling my home (the bubble has a big hole in it IMO, it will within 6-12 months pop loudly)
I think you will draw more attention by being a gay wanting to get married with this bunch (unfortunatly).
Really? 9.35 mbd?
http://omrpublic.iea.org/
"World oil supply rose by 445 kb/d in May to 85.0 mb/d, fuelled by increases from OPEC, a lull in North Sea maintenance and recovering US GOM supply. "
it was in the article I posted above as well...
How about that, 85 MBD soon we'll hit 120 MBD right? :-/
http://omrpublic.iea.org/omrarchive/12may06high.pdf
That means the April figures has been revised downward by 545 kb/d. Yes, they are admitting they were off, on the high side, by over half a million barrels per day for their April estimate. They are usually off and as of the last couple of years they have usually been off on the high side. I wonder why this is and I also wonder how much they will be off in their May estimate?
Not only that, but crude inventories remain steady at record high levels. There is no great incentive to produce much more oil as long as inventories are in this condition. If crude inventories start to fall, and you don't see production pick up, then someone can make the argument that production can't keep up and we have at the least a logistical peak.
RR
I can only say this is a most unusual set of circumstances that should become clearer over the next 6 mos ... maybe?
Lots of people in poorer countries of the world would be happy to oblige them
RR
Not in the U.S. Refineries here are running about as hard as they can, so more oil wouldn't do them any good. There may be some spare capacity overseas. I don't know for sure on that.
RR
Iraq resumes oil exports through Turkey
Really? Double proven reserves to 74 to 80 Bln barrels?
You know, I have about $180 to $200 in my walled but I have the potential to double that...
BTW: Dubai is building an interesting, and good, Urban Rail system. One of many reasons given to build it is that this rail system will allow more oil to be exported.
The extra oil exported should pay for the Urban Rail system.
GEE!! Why didn't we think of that !?!
Plans are also being floated about for various Persian/Arab Gulf freight & inter-city pax rail systems.
BTW, how much electricity would be needed to power all of our present railroads? How many nuke plants (1 GW a pop) to replace the diesel engines? HINT: You can add trolleys to diesel-electric engines to electrify them and have emergency diesel - a plug-in hybrid locomotive.
plus ALL of the light rail systems and subways in Miami, Atlanta, Los Angeles
plus the various commuter rail systems (including Long Island RR that carriea about 7 million/month)
plus Amtrak's NorthEast Corridor
Plus the 78 mile Black Mesa & Lake Powell coal railroad in AZ.
A MASSIVE Urban Rail program should double that 0.19% (duplicating NYC in bits & pieces around the nation would be a major step forward).
My calculations are that electrifying all US freight railroads woudltake a bit over 1% of US electricity.
Significant increases, but quite doable (minor conservation could save this much).
Not very subtle, but apparently they hope it will fool some.
Chevron CEO doesn't see oil crisis looming
Ay, there's the rub...
Yes because you should savor the moment, the cheap easy energy is almost gone. The message is really getting distorted in the media, anyone that does talk about PO, report it as "So...we're running out of oil..." instead of Production is peaking and cheap oil is going bye bye...
-C.
Hawking says humans must go into space
So this pronouncement is very significant. This is not a person who is given to flights of fancy. He's a numbers and equations guy. And our problems are primarily because we are ignoring the laws of physics. Like the simple fact that the earth is round, and round things are finite!
Hawking's statement gives me chills, and I've been convinced that we're screwed for a while now...
Here's a Hawking sample: He proved that the universe will someday completely evaporate. There will be nothing left. No matter. No radiation. Nothing. All matter will end up in black holes, but Hawking discovered that even black holes leak radiation, hence they will eventually evaporate. I believe this will be in about 400 billion years, and the universe is still "only" 13.7 billion years old.
While I'm at it: The first law of thermodynamics says that we do not, we can not, create energy. All we can do is take one form of energy and turn it into another, more useful form of energy. Always losing some in the process (second law of thermo). All the energy creation in the universe happened at the moment of the big bang, and it's been running down ever since (entropy). Have a nice day!
Also, Hawking says we should start populating the moon and mars, eventually other star systems. The problem is, the technology doesn't exist and/or it is way too expensive. He's a very bright guy, but I think he's getting into the realm of science fiction here.
Ah yes, what caused the "Big Bang" (the name was actually an insult hurled by an opponent, Fred Hoyle. Hoyle lost). I like the "theory" that the universe really has ten dimensions, and our 3-dimensional universe was created when two four-dimensional universes briefly intersected on one "edge", or whatever... This caused the "BANG". Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, ummmm, I think...
The universe expanded (bang) then eventually will collapse on itself and then bang again... (I think that's the way it goes)... this is one of the views anywho...
-C.
CAUTION: Sarcasm ahead...
If we don't solve the problem, civilisation fizzles out and 5 million years from now, two talking apes will find a fossilised derelect car and bones in the trunk. And by the hip bone will be the non-biodegradeable piece of plastic with the name "James R Hoffa" and words "Drivers License". They will find Jimmy Hoffa!
Further, I think you suffer from bad assumptions. It is not necessary for the billions here on earth to all migrate outward, only sufficient numbers to ensure the survival of the species which can be accomplished with far smaller numbers. After all, until a few tens of thousands of years ago, homo sapiens and our predecessors never numbered more than a few million max at a time on earth for a couple million years.
New Zealand, Hawaii* & Australia as a trading core, perhaps with Madagascar, Aleutian Islands etc. as well. With Iceland being a long distance very high value only trading partner.
Perhaps Japanese population will decline enough to be sustainable.
The old lifeboat idea. Add stockpiles to existing infrastructure, develop more sustainable infrastructure. Shut down aur travel very early in global epidemic, etc.
*Retirees repopulate by moving in, not by procreation. Have enough stored food etc. for current population of retirees to die off.
For example, rather than spending $500 billion to send a dozen astronauts to Mars to try to live without oxygen, let's try a simpler goal and see if we can live in a technically advanced civilization without fossil fuels somewhere on EARTH! It's fun to point out the interesting problem that even if Mars magically had HUGE fossil fuel reserves underground, we'd have no free oxygen to burn it. It sort of gives a perspective on our assumptions of where energy comes from. (Not only do we have millions of years of solar energy in hydrocarbons, we have millions of years of solar energy in the form of free oxygen in the atmosphere.
I'm content to let our dreams fly on other worlds, as long as they bring us back to our problems on earth.
Is climate change turning polar bears into cannibals?
COAL TAKES HEAVY HUMAN TOLL:
Some 25,100 U.S. Deaths from Coal Use Largely Preventable
Janet Larsen
"Startling new research shows that one out of every six women of childbearing age in the United States may have blood mercury concentrations high enough to damage a developing fetus. This means that 630,000 of the 4 million babies born in the country each year are at risk of neurological damage because of exposure to dangerous mercury levels in the womb."
http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update42.htm
Yeah bub, that's peak "oil" in a nutshell.
... and as far as the other resources, I think they'll make their investors a lot of money, but it less determined that they will satisfy global dreams.
========Rail Car Problems Delay Metro Relief
By Lena H. Sun
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 13, 2006; Page A01
Metro's plan to expand its rail car fleet and ease crowding on the trains has been slowed significantly by problems in repairing older cars and bringing new ones into service, transit officials say, increasing the likelihood that the system will be unable to cope with its growing ridership later this year.
The structural and mechanical problems affect more than one-third of the cars in the fleet or in production and have pushed back the planned expansion by at least four months. Instead of having 100 new cars ready for service by the end of the year, Metro estimates it will have half that.
Twelve new cars delivered to Metro are being tested but will be delayed being put into service because 10 have to be retrofitted with a new center pin. They will include more room to enter and exit.
Faltering Fleet
Metro has 952 rail cars, with 184 on order. Of this number, more than one-third have problems that require reconfiguration. Cars, by manufacturer, and their condition.
The logistics of scheduling the repairs threaten Metro's ability to provide relief for passengers crowding onto platforms and trains. If too many cars are out of service on any given day, passengers will wait longer on the platforms, perhaps letting several jammed trains go by before finding one they can squeeze aboard.
Metro operates its rush hour service on a relatively thin margin.
The system needs 758 of its 952 rail cars to run enough trains for the morning and evening rushes. On most weekdays, the system has six to 12 cars available as backups if problems force trains out of service, said Steven A. Feil, Metro's chief operating officer for rail.
"It's not anything to play with," he said. "If we don't meet these challenges, we're going to have some capacity issues to deal with."
Also, the availability of cars could limit the number of eight-car trains Metro had hoped to add by the end of the year. Most service consists of six-car or four-car trains, with some eight-car service on the Orange Line during morning rush.
Metro was counting on having 25 new cars to put into service by the end of June. But cracks in a critical part in the cars being built by Alstom Transportation Inc. have created a major setback.
After the cracks were found, production was halted for four to five weeks. All but two of the 184 cars -- some built, others in production -- must be retrofitted with a newly designed part.
"This will cost us three to five months," said Dan Hanlon, Metro's chief engineer.
Another class of rail car, built by Ansaldo Breda Construzioni Ferroviarie but being rehabilitated by Alstom, is showing strains in part of its primary suspension system.
And cars built by the Spanish company CAF Inc., purchased by Metro in 1998, also have flaws that must be addressed.
The timing of such problems could not be worse. Average weekday ridership on the nation's second-busiest subway system is up 4 percent over last year. Wednesday's ridership, with no special events, was 764,511, a 2 percent increase over the 750,280 on the same day last year. But last year, there was a Washington Nationals baseball game on that day. Ridership tends to drop off in the summer and pick up again in the fall.
"I don't see gas prices falling anytime soon, and we expect September also will have record ridership," said Metro interim general manager Dan Tangherlini. He said the rail car crunch is "a serious, serious issue, and we're taking it seriously. It's a core issue for the authority."
Twelve new cars delivered to Metro are being tested but will be delayed being put into service because 10 have to be retrofitted with a new center pin. They will include more room to enter and exit.
Faltering Fleet
Metro has 952 rail cars, with 184 on order. Of this number, more than one-third have problems that require reconfiguration. Cars, by manufacturer, and their condition.
Tangherlini said that he was unhappy about the delays but that the transit system should not be driven solely by deadlines. "We want these cars to be as safe and operationally successful as possible," he said.
Roelof van Ark, Alstom's president for NAFTA region operations, acknowledged "the obvious slip in the material" used for the part that must be replaced. Alstom now uses different suppliers, he said, and has taken other corrective measures. He said a Metro audit of Alstom's facility in Barcelona, where the cars are made, found the "overall quality of that rail car is very good."
Metro has been struggling with Alstom for years, and there is a long history regarding quality problems. From 2004 to 2005, the Breda cars that Alstom renovated suffered major mechanical problems 72 percent more often than those that did not undergo the expensive work, according to records. Alstom was awarded a $382 million contract to overhaul all 364 Breda cars.
Quality problems affect the entire U.S. industry, in part because so few companies make or rebuild rail cars. Unlike automobiles, rail cars are built to order, so there is little opportunity to work out kinks from one generation of cars to the next.
Metro awarded Alstom a $323.4 million contract for 184 new cars and has been eagerly awaiting delivery of the cars, which have several new designs aimed at reducing crowding. No floor-to-ceiling poles are clustered at the door. Instead of one single overhead grab bar suspended from the ceiling in the center of the cars, the new cars have a double row of overhead handrails -- one on each side -- running the length of the cars.
In February, a Metro quality control inspector at Alstom's Barcelona facility discovered a suspicious discoloration on the truck center pins, essential in enabling the trains to round curves. Further tests found cracks at a weld in the pin, officials said. Some of the steel that came from Ukraine turned out to be of inferior quality, and the welding was not done properly, Metro officials said.
Metro managers have inspected the facilities in Barcelona and Hornell, N.Y., where the cars are assembled. Today, Tangherlini and other Metro executives are meeting in New York with Alstom officials. Metro officials say that they won't accept the cars until all the defects are corrected and that Metro will not be responsible for any additional costs.
On 186 Breda cars that were refurbished by Alstom, workers must refit the primary suspension system because one part is wearing out prematurely. Metro also needs to address uneven side-bearing plates on about 60 CAF cars. The plates control car rocking and rolling.
On the Breda cars, Metro and Alstom agree that the problem stemmed from the assembly process. "This is not rocket science, nor is it detrimental," Alstom's van Ark said. "It's only going to require refitting."
If that's the case, Rich Buettner, Metro's director of quality assurance, questions why Alstom hasn't done the work properly. "They're having a heck of a time doing a good job," he said.
Metro and Alstom are working out how and where the Breda cars will be refitted to address the suspension issue. But figuring out how that will happen is a challenge, given the limited space in Metro's eight rail yards and limited time for repairs.
Rail chief Feil said he is working on a schedule for the cars to be refitted at one Metro rail yard between 8 p.m. and 4 a.m., without interfering with the regular work flow. At the rate of two cars a day, it will take more than a year to complete repairs on all affected cars.
Officials said the work on the CAF cars is less urgent, and the manufacturer will fix the problems.
===========Information for May 2006 Hiawatha ridership:
Actual: 841,856 (43% ahead of forecast)
Forecast: 590,118
Average Weekday 29,307
Average Saturday 25,739
Average Sunday/Holid 18,825
This provides an interesting comparison with last August's 838,466.
Average weekday ridership is down by 752. This is not surprising as there is growing concern that ridership is dropping because of overcrowded trains. The drop in weekday ridership even with a new monthly high supports this. PHPD trains are essentially at capacity.
Average Saturday ridership is up by 2,400; Sunday up by 5,400.
On March 11, schedules were "tweaked" to eliminate one-car trains during peak hours. It was acknowledged that no more than 22 of the 24 LRVs were likely to be available. Peak hour trains were cut from 8 per hour to 7 per hour. This actually reduced capacity but did eliminate the occasional one-car train, often with a cruch load after two stops.
With a new 80th Street station planned for this summer along with decking of the 28th Avenue p-n-r in Bloomington, it would appear that 3 car trains will be needed soon. Unfortunately, aside from the two projects mentioned above, the Met Council capital budget for Hiawatha shows $0 through 2011. Three more LRTs have been ordered, the first scheduled to arrive late this year. Those will cover the 3-block extension to the Northstar Commuter Rail Station and hopefully allow a return to 8 trains per hour during the peak. I'm concerned that before long trains will be full before Minneapolis riders have a chance to get on.
I've heard talk of ordering additional LRVs for Hiawatha along with Central Corridor which remains iffy and would still be 5 or so years out at best.
John DeWitt
Minneapolis
'Three-nos' call to help save energy
In India, they are protesting the recent fuel price increase:
Left holds countrywide protests against fuel price hike
Anyway, coming to the question, which "province" would you like to know about? I can tell you a lot about my state, Kerala, but then you can use Wikipedia too. Don't know about the other state mentioned, Tripura, since that is about 3000 kms. away (different languages, different cultures).
Life in Kerala was (and still is, I think) good, although I can't talk that much authoritatively now since I live and work in Singapore.
Bill McKibben's "Hope, Human and Wild" would be a good read to get an idea of what Kerala is (and is not).
http://cnn.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/115584/article.html
I know many will appreciate this story!
Speaking of hardship, a coworker of mine with a 4-gallon commute almost quit his job to work closer to the home he has a mortgage on. Some fun calculations. At 4 gallons each way, he burns a barrel a week. He spends about $500/month on gasoline. If he could bike to the new job, he could take some amount of a pay cut and still end up ahead - until the job is outsourced!
How long before the houses get hit by the SUV-trashing Greek Lightning?
Definitely the most humorous and satisfying!
Welcome to the Weimar?
"The Producer Price Index for Finished Goods rose 0.2 percent in May, seasonally adjusted, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. This increase followed a 0.9-percent jump in April and a 0.5-percent advance in March. At the earlier stages of processing, prices received by manufacturers of intermediate goods climbed 1.1 percent in May after rising 0.9 percent in the preceding month, while the crude goods index moved up 2.0 percent following a 1.2-percent gain in April. "
+2% per month?!? That's the same as a 26.8% annual inflation rate. No wonder my home construction materials prices are soaring.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ppi.nr0.htm
Even in the face of a collapsing housing market, the rest of the economy is facing inflation all over the place. It can't be ignored and I think the stagflation of the 70's may be here again, albeit a different strain of the same virus.
What part of 27% is money printing and what part is supply/demand? Give the answer in the form of A% + B% = 27% if you will.
What you are quoting (and incorrectly calling broad)is M2.
M3 is no longer even being published (not since March, when it was last approaching 8%), so any guesses regarding broad supply are just that.
From Wikipedia:
"The narrow money supply or the monetary base (MO) is the term used to describe notes and coins held by the public and notes and coins held by the banking system as reserves against withdrawals."
It is also necessary to account for increasing debt loading, credit, loans, and other instruments of debt.
The US borrows, on average, $2 billion USD per day. Those dollars are not, as a general rule, printed/coined..
You need to brush up on your economics, my friend.
Recommended reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply
Also, can you actually buy "crude goods" with M3? I thought you had to use money.
Then think a moment of what you get when you buy building materials. Premium quality goods are suitable for outbuildings. To get the quality of twenty years ago you look for ultra-premium niche market specialty goods. To get the quality of forty years ago you source raw materials and learn how to process them yourself. To get Weimar German quality you find 80 year old raw materials forgotten in the back of a warehouse and find 80 year old craftsmen to work with them.
One or two handfuls in each craft, but they existed and one could find them by looking carefully.
But those that have come back are booked for at least one year doing restoration work and not all are back.
OTOH, we have always had a market for salvage building materials. Their warehouses are full today and they are renting more.
I talked yesterday to someone who moved here from Phoenix (sold in ;ate Novemober, doubled his money in 4 years) and bought a flooded camelback house (built 1890s/1900s), 12 inches of water and roof damage, for $48,000. He is living in the "back room" of a neighbor who has already restored his house. They share the kitchen and bathroom.
He is amazed at the quality if construction in what was a "working class" home back then.
Actually I found the "proof" of my thinking in today's FT. This quote is real (pg 2). No funny stuff. Promise.
The phrase "supply shock" is key. I had an inkling that Bernanke is no dope. He had it right at the beginning -- "dovish" you call it. Inflation is a lagging indicator.My only problem is that the article says "The Fed believes..." but doesn't cite anything.
- TS missing the rigs/refineries
- Investors moving away from commodities (interest rate hikes/inflation)
- Inventories rise for 7th straight week
- Demand flat
Of course that's today... tomorrow a few new incidents could send oil back over $72 :-/My $.02
-C.
I dont think we will get more than a 2$ loss in one day altough. I'm waiting for the news as regard to the reason.
I know the Toronto TSX is down like a rock too
You can find updates trough Radio-Canada web site

Oil prices tumble after world oil forecast
-C.
I know, I know, but there are too few opportunities in life to tell Astronomy jokes...
Probably a good time to bring up my solution to the energy crisis: simply make the minimum driving age and the speed limit the same: 55! You kids are all too fat anyway, ride a bike!
There are quite a few interesting charts and discussion regarding NG as it relates to PET and the NG market as a whole. I think most will find their forward looking market outlook to be of interest. And yes, I've owned some units since 2003.
<snip>
This reminds me of Kunstler's prediction that post-peak US government won't even be able to answer the phones.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-lemoine13jun13,0,1507648.story?coll=la-news-com ment-opinions
Reading stuff like this really gets my blood boiling!
Anybody who thinks that this whole Homeland Security apparatus is solely to counter terrorists surely must have his head up his arse.
The ink wasn't even dry on the enabling legislation for the Homeland Security Act before DOJ lawyers started giving seminars all around the country explaining creative ways in which the Homeland Security Act could be stretched to encompass all sorts of garden variety crimes and become part of local law enforcement.
Is protesting at a speech given by the President and act of terrorism? A lot of people in the Bush regime would have it so. Give it time.
There are several criteria for knowing whether you are living in a police state.
One is that the general populace has been resigned to accepting all manner of chicken shit regulations, intrusions, and indignities as a normal part of everyday life.
Another is that one finds oneself continually at the mercy of low-paid, literal-minded, humorless aparatchiks who wield enornmous power over your freedom and very life.
Another is that the government believes it is entitled to know everything about what you are doing, but that you are not entitled to know anything about what the government is doing.
And still another is a gradual but relentless intertwining of the military with civilian law enforcement, to the point where both have become blurred into one big security appartus.
There are many more, but suffice to say that we have now largely satisfied the above criteria.
This is all extremely discouraging.
I wonder if the policeman are paid directly by Monsanto?
BTW, during the discussion of the stock market, the NPR fellow was interviewing a Wall Street Journal editor, and noted that Alan Greenspan's recent dire comments about the economy were more direct than ever before. There was a pause and you could almost hear the WSJ guy swallow hard before saying, 'Greenspan is history, we're listening to Bernanke now.' (quoted to best of memory)
PS - Happy Birthday, Sunspot
Maybe inflation isn't so scary after all
"If Housing does get ugly..."?
I've had my house for sale in a northern suburb of Chicago since last August, I now have it 20K below appraised value (it's only six years old BTW) and I have not received one offer. I thought at first it was just my house but as I've found out, many of the Realtors are puzzled as none of the houses in the market area are selling.
This severely sucks, I moved to Houston and I've been paying 2500/mo to keep that house just sitting up there waiting to get sold. Of course I have to keep the heat on in the winter and that was costing me 200/mo last year :-/
I prey it sells before the end of this year, I may just bring it down another 10K soon.
I was driving to an electronics store in the suburbs (GPS helps!) and saw yet more townhomes going up and the sign showed $600,000+. Who's buying this stuff amidst a sea of malls? It's looking like nobody! Today I saw a bargain in Chicago! Lofts for a mere $170,000+.
Will prices plummet until it reaches affordability? We'll sure find out!
I'm really starting to worry whether or not I'm going to get out from under this mortgage payment! (I will not buy another home) I'm trying to become totally debt free (aside from renting an apartment that I now live in).
I've been reading the Housing Bubble Blog for the past year or so. It monitors what is happening to the economy and real estate as the bubble bursts.
It seems the smart money got out of real estate last August. Now people still holding houses -- especially those who were flipping using interest-only loans, etc. -- are in big trouble. Unfortunately, that means you might be in trouble, too.
Their recommendation is take a big price cut now and try to get rid of the property rather than little reductions that won't do much good. When these variable-interest mortgages start resetting this summer, there will be big problems as forclosures mount. The worst thing for sellers is that buyers are catching on that they can now sit back and wait for 50 percent reductions as the bubble deflates.
The Housing Bubble Blog is an intelligent site full of experienced people. It's a lot like the Oil Drum in that way. I would start reading it if I were you.
Sorry if this is bad news, but you might want to get ahead of the curve if you really want to sell your house sometime this decade.
http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/
I hope you can get out from your mortgage soon.
Do you have an "guess-timate" from the Housing Blog of the approximate percentage of people who did the smart thing and re-financed 30-yr mortgages at the low rates available over the past few years?
Also, does anyone there mention the demographic dip in population related to generation-X as a cause for weakness in entry level housing?
Just curious.
The speculators ran up the prices so bad that even with the most bizarre loans, the supply of first-time homebuyers has dried up. The housing bubble is a classic Ponzi Scheme. Consider this: At my wage, with a creative loan (which I refuse to go along with) I might qualify for a $150,000 home. Try finding one of those in Chicago!
It get's worse, but the fun is in the article...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/06/12/ccview12.xml&menuId=242&sS heet=/money/2006/06/12/ixcoms.html
I've read the max recommended debt burden for a home is 3 times household salary. Wow, this is out of hand.
Wow...
Given a choice between inflation and recession I'll take the recession.
It will reduce oil consumption and extend the peak/plateau. Not to mention that I'm setup better to financially weather a recession.
PS: Is the telegraph a conservative or liberal paper? Is it prone to sensationalism?
Because that's a pretty radical article.
The Telegraph is a very serious Conservative heavyweight ... it's THE paper in the UK for those in business & with money.
Just can't bring myself to putting on ruby slippers, but hell if it will help me sell my home...WTF?
An that goes for your little dog, too! {cackle}
But a Texan wearing ruby slippers?
Seems a tad suicidal to me.
If the housing bubble "officially" pops or the markets do a long term swan dive you will never be able to unload it. I would forget about trying to make a profit out of the sale and just unload it at a fire sale price. (But then my glass is always half empty)
Lower it 5K today, and I'm going to revisit in two weeks and lower it another 5K. If it doesn't sell by then I will fire my realtor, list it FSBO just enough to cover paying the taxes and have my neighbors show the house!
Damn the profits! For the $2500/mo it's costing me I could have already saved $30K in the bank if I had sold it last August at cost :-/
http://headlines.accuweather.com/news-story.asp?partner=accuweather&myadc=0&article=6
I was just thinking the same thing as that article mentioned.
"Atlantic Ocean appears to be more active than it normally is so early in the hurricane season. "
Yup!
The possibility that Public Works Projects similar to the ones of New Deal might prevent or soften a hard fall into depression or may help a nation in depression start to crawl back out of one seem unlikely given the responses. One of the conclusions reached regarding `New Deal' was that it by in large did not stimulate the US economy. As it turned out WW2 stimulated the economy.
I was not surprised when members showed faith in the government's ability to deal with something like depression. There are vast differences between the "Great Depression" and any depression coming. Ironically the common thread is based in resources. There were camps during the Great Depression. To get an idea of what they were like just watch an old movie called "Grapes of Wrath." This would not be the first time camps were used in the US though.
One of the first people to use camps were southern plantation slave owners. This expanded to include millions of slaves in the US. Eventually private slave holdings were banned. In skipping over a period of time we find another instance of US internment camps used to house oriental citizens during WW2. Japanese/Americans were rounded up and put into camps since the US was at war with Japan.
During every war the US has been involved with it has improved its ability to deal with ever larger numbers of refugees, casualties and prisoners. While Japanese/Americans were not harmed by their jailers they were none the less imprisoned with no charges. If we consider slavery prior to the Civil War this was more of an anything goes affair since there were different slave owners involved.
Since I mentioned Grapes of Wrath it is important to understand the restrictions thrust upon Americans during the Great Depression. If you had a car, travel from state to state required different stickers for your car. A recent event during Katrina showed many blacks unable to walk from one end of a bridge to the other; on the other end were armed whites who fired shots in warning that none shall pass! Events like that go to the core of the Great Depression.
The other day I posted a picture and some information about Ike in WW2. The US was responsible for millions of prisoners during that war. Regardless of what you think happened to the "missing 1.7 million" German POWs it should be clear that the US like others knows how to set up camps. If we follow this up till present we wind up with practice terror drills using camps across the US.
I see history repeating itself, does anyone else?
But you have to be willing to accept the premise that a depression will occur. Remember last time the government didn't feel that it should intervene.
Check out this link:
http://65.254.39.125/%7Egilderle/collection/docs_archive_hoover.html
Well, we've tried the war route and that ain't working out so well. If we got the Public Works Projects route at least we could put people to work on rebuilding this country's railroad system. If I was out of work and looking for something...I'd go for that in a jiffy.
What are you talking about? WW2 was a war. The Iraq war is a war. Public Works projects were implemented to lift the country out of a depression. First the depression existed then the programs were started. By this time the depression was nearly over.
It will be hard to tell when or if we have entered a depression today (these days) since most people agree the numbers like the GNP are false. The other factor is that for the most part unemployment is done on the phone these days. We will not see long unemployment lines like we did during the Regan years.
Should someone determine that we are in a depression odds are that we would hear that a draft is needed for the Iranian War or the N. America vs. S. America War or something along those lines.
You wrote this:
To me this post is confusing in several ways. I was hoping that you could explain it another way. Are you suggesting in your post that the WAR is the Public Works project? Are you suggesting that the Republican method of stimulating the economy by going to war is the best bet for all of us?
Regarding history:
- History must be written of, by and for the survivors.
- History always repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, and the second as farce.
- If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must Man be of learning from experience?
Regarding history repeating itself here is the Great Depression:Here is an unemployment line you will not see to many of these today since unemployment for the most part is done on the phone or online.
This is what your family goes through while you look for work.
This was segregation of the blacks.
I wanted to show a picture of the blocking of the Gretna La. Bridge here. It would have been the perfect image if I was able to find one. It seems that that image has been scoured off of the internet.
I'll try. I was simply trying to point out the differences between (1) the "Depression" which was a deflationary event, (2) WW2 which was an inflationary event, and (3) a governmental effort to, as aforementioned, "work on rebuilding this country's railroad system" which is a dis-inflationary event.
It seems that a lot of people have the notion that government spending is always inflationary. That's all.
of exactly how insane everything is. Yes wstephens, I said INSANE and I mean it too. This project will not employ the disenfranchised but instead employ paving contractors. If I was a betting man I would put my money on Halliburton to be the biggest contract winner. You can bet there will be a Halliburton Paving & Curbing Inc. As it stands people don't pave roads since machines do that job.
domnside of fossil fuels many structures, vehicles, tires,
biomass including corpses will be burnt in order to keep
warm, dispose of bodies and for "the hell of it". This would have to affect climate to some degree.
"We are almost certainly at or near what is called peak oil production..."
Too bad it was an aside at the end of the interview, but still...yet another high level acknowledgement of the problem.
Cheap Drinking Water from the Ocean
I wonder how much energy could be saved with cheap de-salination?