Prudhoe Bay Open Thread and News Dump 2
Posted by Prof. Goose on August 7, 2006 - 3:04pm
Topic: Supply/Production
Tags: alaska, corrosion, north slope, oil, oil prices, peak oil, pipelines, prudhoe bay [list all tags]
Posted by Prof. Goose on August 7, 2006 - 3:04pm
Topic: Supply/Production
Tags: alaska, corrosion, north slope, oil, oil prices, peak oil, pipelines, prudhoe bay [list all tags]
Being optimistic is getting harder everyday. I'm starting to get downright scared.
I can't help but wonder what sort of world our children will live in. Assuming they live at all, which may be a big if. I do not yet have children, and I am beginning to wonder now if I ever will. I could not justify bringing a child into a world gone mad, and adoption may soon no longer be an option. By the time I finish grad school, it may be too late for that.
I expect something half-assed to start, but hope that it will be forced toward the smart by hard reality, and that will be enough.
But I wouldn't worry about being able to adopt. There's always lots of unclaimed children around during any time of hardship and disaster.
On the issue of children, please do not succomb to fatalism. Even in the worst of times there are joys in being alive. Having children is one of those joys. My wife and I started a little late (in our forties), but recently adopted a little boy and have started paperwork on a second adoption. I know that they will not have the physical comforts in their adulthood that I had in mine. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. They will have opportunities to build a new world, if I can encourage them to gain the skills needed in a changed world. It is those who are most attached to our materialistic values who will have the hardest time surviving, them and the billions of very poor.
(Trying hard there to recognize my privelage in being born when and where I was.)
In my view, it will be the poor who will actually be better prepared for the crash. It is they who have to "make do" with very little, so for them not much will change.
I read a blog a few months ago written by a gentleman who lived for a few months in a rural area in Bangladesh. It was his assessment that they would be far better prepared for the advent of Peak Oil -- even though they weren't as informed as their western counterparts -- because they were almost completly self-sufficient. He stated that he would consider moving there when TSHTF rather than staying in the US.
I can't think of a population in history that will be more ill-prepared to deal with collapse than Americans. Completely pampered, with unreasonable expectations in terms of an acceptable standard of living, the stark reality of chronic deprivation is going to hit hard.
On kids: I'm in my early 40s and don't have any, nor do I plan to. I cannot in good conscience bring a life into the world with the realization of the brutal future that today's society faces.
If you are looking for a safe place after the crash, Bangladesh would be one of the worse places you could possibly choose.
I hear both of you. Bangladesh wouldn't be my choice either - I was just reporting what was said. I would tend to favor some of the less-densely populated Caribbean islands.
The best choices, IMO, are countries that still have large surpluses of oil and gas. But they also run the risk of being invaded too, so it's a little give-and-take.
Well, we have more than a few good estimates on when Peak Oil will occur (or when its already occurred), but are there any educated guesses as to when the oceans will rise 20' due to Global Warming? As I understand it, such an event isn't as imminent as Peak Oil, though I'm not as well informed on that subject.
I'll say this: if the oceans do rise 20', a lot more places than Bangladesh and the Caribbean islands will be in deep trouble. I guess we just have to pick our poisons. No place is going to be perfect in the coming collapse scenarios.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?s=sea+level&submit=Search
I appreciate the link, odograph. That's a great source.
Also, Bengali Islamic jurisprudence has reconciled itself to the necessity of stabilizing the population (although our Wahabbi Saudi friends are hard at work undoing that..), so the local culture has at least some chance of organizing their society to a stable condition.
I'm still not eager to join them, but they do have some chance.
I took exactly the opposite mood....here's a post I have done on some other message boards....
We must be in better shape....
(44/M/KY) 08/07/06 03:31 pm
Msg: 65804 of 65807
Folks, we can look at this another way....
We must be in somewhat better shape than we thought....
Think about it...at the front of summer, those who saw the world darkly were predicting oil prices over $100 a barrel and gasoline at $4.50 by the 4th of July....
Since that time we have had everything but the kitchen sink thrown at us, and still have not gotten there yet....
We made the MTBE switch on gasoline additive with only minor disruptions, the switch to Low Sulfer Diesel, minor disruptions, the continued Iranian war hawk talk, minor price moves, the explosion of way in Lebenon and Gaza....minor moves....several refinery fires/accidents, minor moves, Iraq descent into civil war, minor moves, Nigerian and Venesualan tensions, met with a yawn, widespread rumors that Mexico is peaked and Canterell (third biggest oil field in the world) is dropping on production, no one noticed, labor and technical issues in Norway, did anybody even read it (?) and continued declines in the British North Sea, which we seem to see as their problem, even though only a couple of years ago they provided us with 3% of our oil, and now, the Prudhoe shutdown.....and a little buck and a half to two buck jump on a 42 gallon barrel, (the way people operate today, that's couch change money)....
You can look at it one of two ways.....
>Them damm oil boys is ROBBIN' US!! :-O
>or, We pay them oil boys pretty damm good but the sonza' biitches SEEM TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOIN' :-)
Take your choice, but either way, we have to admit the oil market delivery system, love it or hate, has worked surprisingly well....I think now is about the right time to test it for strenth with another blow like a hurricane....by shiit we'll see how much she can take and keep tickin'!
:-)
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I am starting to get ready to stake my bet....what we are seeing right now is a logistical peak, much like the 1980's. Leharre called right....peak on all liquids around 2020, and then down some 5% a year. By the way, the consensus on this would be VERY STRONG, almost across the board, with even CERA seeing the "bumpy plateau" period, and most major energy agencies growing very leery at the 2015 to 2020 mark.
That in NO WAY reduces the emergency, and still doesn't give us much time, and the logistical disruptions along the way (such as this one) will be very disconcerting. As Hirsch pointed, MITAGATION on a massive scale has to be underway NOW. Strategic storage and fuel diversity has to be widespread and NOW. WE ARE CUTTING IT RAZOR THIN, either way, not a catastrophe if we plan well and CHANGE AT THE PERSONAL LEVEL NOW, but cutting it very, very close.
I could be wrong, but that's my call, that's where my money and prep goes...and it's my money, and me up shiiit creek if I misguessed it....:-)
---------------------------------
Roger Conner known to you as ThatsItImout
http://www.energybulletin.net/news.php?author=jeffrey+brown&keywords=&cat=0&action=searc h
Thanks for the counter argument Westexas, I actually had read that post some time ago, but the reminder is good. to do a bit of review.
The most compelling link is probably
http://www.energybulletin.net/13575.html
with it's excellent explanation of HL as applied to the top 4 world producers, Saudi, Russia, Norway, Iran. It is to be admitted that grouping these 4, of which real reliable information about 3 of which (Russia, Saudi Arabia and Iran) is almost impossable to obtain is interesting, in that it makes a bit of guesswork as to actually who's on first! It is to be noticed that a considerable amount of creaming has to be done to make the nice red bell curve fit! However, i don not argue with the chart, that is not my strong area
http://static.flickr.com/39/108519699_68c06e7df5_o.png
Also compelling is the recent work of Jean Laherre and the discussion of all liquids:
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/laherrere/EGUVienna2006.pdf
My contention is that "conventional crude oil" could well peak before 2020 (it could already be peaked, there is absolutely no way to know), but that "conventional crude" and in particular, conventional light sweet crude is becoming less of the energy picture anyway. All liquids is to me of more extreme importance, in particular as the grid and natural gas becomes a bigger part of the transportation enerrgy picture in the future (in my view, now due much sooner than previously expected)
The other issue is what can be called "data shift" due to extremely unreliable data. Even Colin Campbell himself expresses reverservations, as he shifts peak date further out in front:
From ASPO Newsletter, Sept 2005
"It is a summary of a depletion model and database that have been maintained for about 15 years, being subject to continual revision and refinement. It will be readily understood that public reserve and production data are grossly unreliable, and that even the industry databases show widely different estimates. Accordingly, it is necessary to look for trends and relationships, as well as apply common sense and geological knowledge, to try to come up with realistic assessments.
"Much interest devolves on the date of peak, but this really misses the point. It is not an isolated or high peak, merely the indicated maximum on a fairly gentle production curve."
But this in no way reduces the magnitude of the problem, Campbell's words again:
However, the importance is not so much in the date of peak itself but in recognition of the long, remorseless decline that follows."
Mitagating factors in my view
-Despite the recent concern about "plateau" by statistical experts such as Stuart Staniford and others, the "plateau" is almost at new highs, and not indicative of peak in and of itself. It is also not at all a new feature of the Saudi production history, as Saudi Arabia has been at "plateau" throughout the 1990's.
-Despite repeated and ongoing predictions of Saudi peak, the dates keep getting pushed further forward. The peak may, as I have said, already occured, (we know in fact that until 2003, the peak had indeed occured in 1981, however, through two decades no one noticed!
-The possibly false assumption that OPEC, Saudi Arabia, and in particular, Ghawar are being pumped flat out. Evidence indicates that since a period around 2001, when the 9/11 attack reduced consumption, that several large producers reduced production even more, to assure avoidence of complete price collapse. I am gaining in my belief that Saudi Arabia, while often talking a big game, has NOT raised production back to their capability, instead prefering a higher price lower production regime.
Some ask why they would not have done this in the 1990's. My assertion: That Saudi Arabia could not be sure that large producers Britain, Norway, and Canada could come in and fill the gap. They now seem more confident that these nations cannot.
-The fact that even with constant world emergencies, it has been almost impossible to get oil prices above $75 dollars per barrel. My assertion: That although that price may be painful, the great bulk of it can be accounted for by
inflation from the prior record lows of the 1990's, the need for infrastructure investment, geo-political interruptions, weather events, and demand increases from China and India. Despite a half decade of rumors and worry, at this moment, production has not seemed unable to meet a very high level of demand.
-The discovery peak. While the discovry rate did in fact peak in 1962 approx., this does not mean that discovery has ceased, and the decline from that old peak, when viewed in context, is not nearly as great as some would make it out. (indicated in the Vienna presentation by Laharre on page 3) and that the most profound collapse came after 1982, when the price of oil collapsed, thus collapsing expenditure on discovery efforts. There was a sizable recovery of discovery in 1995, but then a decline after 2001 and 9/11 back to the 1995 levels.
Willingness of the oil and gas industry to engage in discovery efforts is questionable, as companies like BP and others wish to pacify shareholders with large returns after the long drought of the 1990's, and whether they are open when they do make a discovery is questionable. Taxation and legal issues still impinge on discovery, for example, the often talked about Russian frontier which was once presumed to have large promise has been delayed in E/P by the turmoil in the Russian industry. Likewise, exploration off the coast of Greenland, Iceland, and Australia has been delayed by an array of economic and environmental concerns.
-Where efforts have been undertaken, the results have been fruitful, in particular in Brazil, which has for the time being essentially removed itself from the world competition for oil, in a very great success offshore.
There is promise in other areas along the coast of South America, the Pacific, the Gulf of Mexico, and the Outer Continental Shelf. At this moment, it is political/economic factors and not geological concerns that are keeping the world from E/P in these areas.
-Deep offshore oil E/P is much more promising than originally thought, mirroring the possibility of the "North Sea Miracle of the 1970's and 1980's. People forget that the bets were against the success of these ventures in the early days, and it completely altered the world oil markets.
-The fact that the oil and gas industry repeatedly seem to fear a price collapse much more than a supply shortfall. This creates a resistance to E/P that is badly needed ONLY IF the goal is to reduce price, which, as stated above, is not that high anyway (and shown virtually no real demand destruction due to price) when viewed from the priorities of the oil companies/producing nations. As in any business, the producer will charge what the market can bear as long is it does not destroy sales.
At this moment, we see depletion in the North Sea, (well known now for a half decade), and depletion in Mexico (expected by those in the industry). We some depletion in all the aging fields in OPEC, but none of these a surprise except possibly Bergen, which seemed to impact the oil markets very little.
Ghawar is unknown, but pre-remediation depletion is relatively certain. The effect of the remediation is important. Given that Saudi Arabian production has been flat throughout the 1990's, the Saudi fields cannot be viewed as overstressed, and in fact the production in Saudi Arabia has been turned up in volume, interrestingly, only when the need is present (and they have been making it quite clear that THEY will decide when the need is present.)
Conclusion: It is my conclusion, for purposes of my own planning, that there can be no real certainty of "peak" in the near future, although due to complete lack of information, no insurance against it, and no way to know that it has not already occurred. Thus, the complete onset of hysteria and panic we have seen in the last few monthes in some quarters is completely unwarrented. The need for mitagation by way of conservation, design, technology, and planning for fuel diversity and strategic emergency storage is ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY given the lack of information we have. The conclusion that there is going to be such a fantastic drop in oil/gas production that it renders the world too short of fuel to make remediation/restructering possible is overreaction to the wildest extreme, and frankly cannot be accepted as any type of logically supportable conclsuion given current evidence.
Just as production drops may surprise many, the drop in consumption through restructuring could be extremely great, and occur much sooner than expected, with no damage to the economy, if the consumption drops are done through efficient restructuring. The challenge to get people to break current habits will be great, but as oil and gas prices remain high, incentives for making needed changes will be apparent, and new, efficient technology will be coming into the market as old inefficient technology ages out.
Roger Conner known to you as ThatsItImout
That said, one argument I don't find the least bit compelling is the argument about oil not going over 75/barrel. First of all it's over that mark now, but I'll assume you mean the ballpark. But the reality is, we only hit that last year after Katrina, and at that time it was a crisis high. Now we have slowly creeped up to the point where it is commonplace, and the next crisis will most likely push us up to $80 or above. There's not a long enough track record of $75/barrel to say that oil cannot go higher, nor is there any evidence to support it being a top. On the contrary, more evidence seems to point to the $75 price point no longer being extraordinary.
Even oil company chiefs who deny a current peak in total oil say conventional oil has peaked. Of course, we keep our fingers crossed that production can grow enough to build alternative infrastructure (if the masses ever come to their senses).
sofistek
Ah, you are on to something there, and I have addressed that in a great number of posts.....
I have come to the decision that the real reason for concern is not "Peak" per se but the absolute blindness we are are running in, and see as the ABSOLUTE first job of the energy aware crowd as letting the public how absolutely little real information, statistics, data, and transparency we actually have in the knowledge of our energy supply, souces, and world resources.....this is the greatest immediate danger.....whatever happens, good or bad, will be a complete and total surprise.
(brief aside: The biggest news about the Alaska pipeline was not that the pipeline needed maintainence and repair (gee, who'd a thunk it?) but that it seemed to catch the world by ABSOLUTE SURPRISE that the pipeline needed repair and maintainence!! :-0 How much are we paying these expert reporters in the engergy industry?
Roger Conner known to you as ThatsItImout
Tony
So why stop the hope pipeline repeatedly, each time just to repair a short section? Might not the optimal approach to run it until it breaks, fix everything broke, and run it again?
... now maybe they got the timing wrong on the "when" but assuming the "run it until it breaks" stategy results in minimum total downtime, maybe it was worth it.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4103225.html
Tony
We're not at worldwide geological peak (i.e. the peak as imposed strictly by geological factors) quite yet. So I really think that our best bet is to hope for lots of logistical/geopolitical/weather impacts. It means more pain sooner, which will hopefully translate into less pain later. The danger, of course, is that too much stress could shatter the economy and the production systems that we need to use to build the transition infrastructure. But so far the economy has been more resilient against high oil/gas prices than I would have expected.
well, my opinion remains unchanged - peak is here, now. We can certainly discuss various aspects, and this is merely an opinion, but what is coming out of the pipeline is less than a year ago - and essentially, that is the reality we will be living with for the next several decades.
It is entirely possible that it will take years for that truth to set in for a majority of people after peak - whenever that may be.
At what point does a logistical peak become the real one? In other words, where are the major discoveries to replace what we have drained from the now tattered kings and queens?
The one caveat is that I think that they have been injecting water into the gas cap in order to boost the pressure in the field. I don't know if months of no production might have some longer term negative impact if it gives more time for the water to reach the oil leg through gravity drainage.
....Conspiracy thought: What if Pudhoe decline is worse than reported and this a convenient way to cover it up?
And came across these figures for depletion
from the 2005 Annual Report ..
Historical Production
Production from the Prudhoe Bay field began on June 19, 1977, with the completion of the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System. As of December 31, 2005 there were about 1,111 active producing oil wells, 33 gas reinjection wells, 82 water injection wells and 136 water and miscible gas injection wells in the Prudhoe Bay field. Production from the Prudhoe Bay field has declined over the past five years. The average well production rate was about 546 barrels of oil per day in 2001, 375 barrels per day in 2002, 350 barrels per day in 2003, 317 barrels per day in 2004 and 293 barrels per day in 2005.
Triff ..
But then again, what is the dollar value up slope?
293 * 1,111 = 325523/bpd.
Where's the other 75,000 bpd coming from?
And that's a 2005 number. 2006 would probably be 7% less then that.
Garth