Is Nuclear Power a Viable Option for Our Energy Needs?
Posted by Prof. Goose on March 1, 2007 - 11:30am
Topic: Alternative energy
Tags: eroei, light water fission, nuclear, nuclear energy [list all tags]
[editor's note, by Prof. Goose] This is an updated/edited repost by Martin Sevior, Associate Professor, School of Physics, University of Melbourne. We thought this a worthy topic for discussion as nuclear power keeps coming up in many of our threads. The original post can be found here. (Forget not the reddit and digg buttons...)
In the middle of the last year it became clear to me that the Australian Government was interested in having a debate about Nuclear Energy for Australia. I decided that we, in the School of Physics, could make a positive contribution to the debate and organized a study group to investigate this. We constructed a wiki-based website (http://nuclearinfo.net) where we placed our findings. We went live in December, 2005 and have updated the website as we've learned more about energy issues and Nuclear Power.
In this post I draw heavily on that website and restrict myself to talking about light water fission reactors. There are a variety of different and more advanced reactor schemes that could be addressed in a future post. There are more details on our website on all of the topics covered here.
Nuclear Fission Basics
A nuclear fission reaction occurs when a 235U or 239Pu nucleus captures a neutron, splits into two smaller nuclei and releases 2 - 3 more neutrons. These neutrons can be used to initiate further reactions. From an energy standpoint, the significant feature is that the release is around 200 Million Electron Volts per reaction. A typical chemical process such as the oxidation of hydrogen, emits 20 electron volts per reaction. Thus nuclear fission provides around 10 million times more energy than chemical processes. This factor of 10 million sets the scale of Nuclear Power.
Natural Uranium consists of 99.3% 238U and 0.7% 235U. Conventional light water reactors utilize fuel with an initial 235U concentration enriched to at least 3.5%. The energy released from these reactors comes from the fission of 235U and 239Pu (which is produced via neutron captures on 238U). The heat from the reaction is used to drive steam turbines with a conversion efficiency of around 33%. Typically the fuel is loaded at 3.5% 235U and replaced once the 235U concentration has fallen to 1.2%. A 1 GW light water Nuclear Power Plant consumes 30 tonnes of fuel per year. A coal-fired plant of the same magnitude consumes 9000 tonnes of coal per day.
World Uranium supply
Given that this website is devoted to the study of peak oil, I think it's appropriate to first look at the prospects for using Uranium as fuel source for at least the rest of the next century. Uranium is not a particularly rare mineral. It has an average crustal abundance of about 2.7 Parts Per Million (PPM), which about the same as tin and zinc. There is an estimated 40 trillion tonnes of Uranium in the Earth's crust. To date we have mined less than one ten-millionth of this (as opposed to about half the world's conventional crude Oil). A typical 1 GW Nuclear reactor requires around 200 tonnes of natural Uranium per year. Current world consumption of Uranium amounts to some 65,000 tonnes per annum. Current world supply is around 40,000 tonnes per annum. The mismatch is maintained by the drawn-down of stocks and the use of fissile material available from the reduction in Nuclear Weapons in the USA and ex-Soviet Union. The combination caused a decade-long depression of World Uranium price. These stocks and secondary sources will be exhausted by the middle of the next decade. In early 2003 the price of Uranium was $23 per kg, it is currently at around $187 per kg. This price increase has triggered a rapid increase in exploration activity around the world. At $187 per kg, the price of Uranium Ore contributes about 0.37 cents per KW-HR to the price of Nuclear generated electricity.
Reasonably assured reserves (or proven reserves) refers to known commercial quantities of Uranium recoverable with current technology and for a specified price. The terms additional and speculative reserves refer to extensions to well explored deposits or in new deposits that are thought to exist based on well defined geological data.
As of the beginning of 2003 World Uranium reserves were:
- Reasonable Assured Reserves recoverable at less than $US130/kgU (or $US50/lb U3O8) = 3.10 - 3.28 million tonnes.
- Additional reserves recoverable at less than $US130/kgU (or $US50/lb U3O8) = 10.690 million tonnes.
As of the beginning of 2005 World Uranium reserves were:
- Reasonable Assured Reserves recoverable at less than $US130/kgU (or $US50/lb U3O8) = 4.7 million tonnes.
- Additional recoverable Uranium is estimated to be 35 million tonnes
The substantial increase (almost 50%) from 2003 shows the results of the world-wide renewed exploration effort spurred by the increase in Uranium prices which commenced in 2004. This increase in activity has continued through to 2006. Thus, the provable uranium resources amount to approximately 85 years supply at the current level of consumption with current technology, with another 500 years of additional reserves. It is worth noting that the numbers above do not reflect the considerable increase in Uranium exploration that has taken place in 2005 and 2006.
It is interesting to speculate on the ultimate size of the world Uranium resource, if it were to power light water reactors. This can be estimated by comparing the energy produced by a nuclear plant to the energy required to mine and refine the Ore. As one moves to lower grade Ore, the energy cost the mining and refining increases. However the total resource size increases at these higher dilutions. If we assume the rate at which the energy cost increases is inversely proportional to the Uranium concentration in the Ore we can estimate the ultimate size of Uranium resource if consumed in light water reactors. The Rossing mine in Nambia is a large, low grade Ore deposit. It produces around 3000 tonnes of Uranium per year. The energy cost of this process is 1 PetaJoule. Now 3000 tonnes of Uranium provides 15 GigaWatt-years of power which is about 470 PetaJoules of energy. So the energy gain from Rossing is close to a factor of 500. The grade of Uranium at Rossing is 0.035% by weight (about 350 ppm). Deffeyes & MacGregor have estimated the distribution of Uranium in different types of rock and show that shales and phosphates contain 8000 times as much Uranium as current Uranium Ore bodies at a concentration of 10 -20 PPM. These rocks are potentially minable with an energy gain of 15-30.
Consequently, unlike conventional Oil, Uranium resource exhaustion will not be an issue for the foreseeable future.
Energy Lifecycle of Nuclear Power
The performance of Nuclear Power can be compared to other energy sources by calculating the total energy required to build and run a Nuclear Power plant and comparing it to the total energy it produces. The following set of calculations is also taken from the independently audited, Vattenfall Environmental Product Declaration for its 3090 MW Forsmark nuclear power plant in Sweden. A more detailed description is here. Vattenfall have also made available the aggregated data set as a spreadsheet. You can download it from here. Vattenfall is a large European Energy utility that operates a variety of energy generation technologies including Nuclear, Hydro, Natural gas, Coal, Oil, Peat, Biomass, Wind and Photovoltaic. We chose this because it had been independently audited, and includes the entire lifecycle of the processes which includes the eventual long-term disposal of the waste. Sweden and Finland have perhaps the most developed nuclear waste disposal plans of any country.
The following table displays the source and the amount of energy required to produce 1 KW-Hr of electricity. The table includes the energy used in construction of the plant, mining the Uranium, enriching it, converting it to fuel, disposing the waste and decommissioning the plant. The plant is assumed to run for 40 years. There is an additional 0.026 grams of Uranium consumed in generating this one KW-Hr of electricity. This 0.026 grams includes the Uranium used to generate power and the Uranium consumed by the French Nuclear Power plants that produced the electricity that enriched the Fuel.
So the Plant produces 93 times more energy than it consumes. Or put another way, the non-nuclear energy investment required to generate electricity for 40 years is repaid in 5 months. Normalized to 1 GigaWatt electrical capacity, the energy required to construct and decommission the plant, which amounts to 4 Peta-Joules (PJ), is repaid in 1.5 months. The energy required to dispose of the waste is also 4 PJ and repaid in 1.5 months. In total this is less than 0.8% of the all the electrical energy produced by the plant.
Greenhouse Gas emissions
Although the processes of running a Nuclear Power plant generates no CO2, some CO2 emissions arise from the construction of the plant, the mining of the Uranium, the enrichment of the Uranium, its conversion into Nuclear Fuel, its final disposal and the final plant decommissioning. The amount of CO2 generated by these secondary processes primarily depends on the method used to enrich the Uranium (the gaseous diffusion enrichment process uses about 50 times more electricity than the gaseous centrifuge method) and the source of electricity used for the enrichment process. It has been the subject of some controversy. To estimate the total CO2 emissions from Nuclear Power we also use the work of Vattenfall.
Vattenfall finds that averaged over the entire lifecycle of their Nuclear Plant including Uranium mining, milling, enrichment, plant construction, operating, decommissioning and waste disposal, the total CO2 emitted per KW-Hr of electricity produced is 3.3 grams per KW-Hr of produced power. Vattenfall measures its CO2 output from Natural Gas to be 400 grams per KW-Hr and from coal to be 700 grams per KW-Hr. Thus nuclear power generated by Vattenfall, emits less than one hundredth the CO2 of Fossil-Fuel based generation.
Back of the Envelope estimates
There is a meme that the energy cost and greenhouse emissions of Nuclear Power are such that they require 7 years of operation to become carbon neutral because of the embodied energy in construction and the energy cost of Uranium mining. We find Nuclear to be much better than than that so I think it helps to do some back-of-the-envelope calculations to estimate the reasonableness of our calculations. The Forsmark reactors, normalized to 1 GW output, have a total mass of about 1 million tonnes, most of which is steel and concrete. If we assign the total mass to concrete and 1 carbon dioxide molecule per molecule of silicon-dioxide , (a substantial over estimate,) we get less than 2 million tones of CO2 emitted directly from construction. A 1 GW coal-fired power station consumes 3 million tonnes of coal per year, emitting 10 million tonnes of CO2. This is over 5 times are much as the direct construction costs every year. Regarding Uranium mining, Australia has a large mining industry, which consumed 232 PJ of primary energy in 2005-2006. It generates output worth around $AUD 91 billion dollars in 2005-2006. Australia’s Uranium output is around 10,000 tonnes per annum with a financial value less than 2% of the total. If we can assign the energy cost of Uranium mining in proportion to the value of product, we get 4-5 PJ of primary energy required for Australia's Uranium production. That 10,000 tonnes is sufficient for 50 one GW reactors for 1 year of operation. This represents 1500 PJ of generated electrical energy. So mining accounts for much less than 1% of the energy output of Nuclear Power.
Nuclear Costs
The cost of generating power via nuclear energy can be separated into the following components:
- The construction cost of building the plant.
- The operating cost of running the plant and generating energy.
- The cost of waste disposal from the plant.
- The cost of decommissioning the plant
Quantifying some of these costs is difficult as it requires an extrapolation into the future.
Construction Costs
Construction costs are currently difficult to quantify but dominate the cost of Nuclear Power. The problem is that third generation power plants currently proposed are claimed to be both substantially cheaper and faster to construct than the second generation power plants now in operation throughout the world. The Nuclear Industry says its learned the lessons of economy-of-volume demonstrated by the French Nuclear Program, and that these will be employed for the new power plants. For example Westinghouse claims its Advanced PWR reactor, the AP1000, will cost USD $1500-$1800 per KW for the first reactor and may fall to USD $1200 per KW for subsequent reactors. They also claim these will be ready for electricity production 3 years after first pouring concrete. This should be compared to second generation plants which, in the U.S.A., had construction costs up to $6000 per KW and generally took more than five years to complete.
Meanwhile the Chinese Nuclear Power Industry has won contracts to build new plants of their own design at capital cost reported to be $1500 per KW and $1300 per KW at sites in South-East and North-East China.
The first Westinghouse AP1000 will be also be constructed in China. Newspaper reports are that the cost for the 2 twin units with a total of 4.4 GW capacity is between 5.3 - 8 billion dollars. That is in the range $1200 to $1800 per KW of capacity.
Operating, Waste Disposal and Decommissioning Costs
Operating costs are much easier to quantify and are independently verified as they relate directly to the profitability of the Utilities which operate them.
Since 1987 the cost of producing electricity from has decreased from 3.63 cents per KW-Hr to 1.68 cents per KW-Hour in 2004 and plant availability has increased from 67% to over 90%. The operating cost includes a charge of 0.15 cents per KW-Hr to fund the disposal of radioactive waste and for decommissioning the reactor. This fund is currently capitalized at $24 billion dollars. The Swedish Nuclear Industry has charged 0.13 cents per KW-Hr for waste disposal and decommissioning. Sweden has well developed plans for these which appear to be adequately covered by these charges. The US plans for waste disposal at Yucca Mountain remain highly controversial. It may be that the charges levied by the US NRC are insufficient.
Sensitivity Analysis of the cost of Nuclear Power
In our study we performed a sensitivity analysis of the cost of Nuclear Power. We employed a simple model which gives a reasonable guideline to the cost in US cents of electricity per KW-Hr based on various assumptions for construction cost, operating costs, interest rates and construction time. The plant is assumed to have a 1 GW capacity.
If we assume a 7% interest rate and 4 year construction period, US operating costs in the second best quartile, the cost of electricity production for plants that cost $1.2 Billion, $1.5 Billion and$ 2.0 Billion US dollars would be 3.3, 3.8 and 4.4 US cents per KW-Hr respectively. If the AP1000 lives up to its promises of $1200 per KW construction cost and 3 year construction time, it will provide electricity fully cost competitive with Fossil Fuel based generating facilities.
Safety of Nuclear reactors
The chain reaction that provides the power-source of nuclear reactors, is controlled by adjusting the neutron multiplication factor, k. The parameter k is the overall fraction of neutrons from one fission generation that initiate further fission reactions. If k > 1 the number of neutrons grows with time and more power is generated. If k < 1, the reaction decays with time and less power is generated. In a steady operation k is adjusted to be almost precisely 1. This is possible because round 1% of the neutrons in a reactor are emitted after a delay of a several seconds even though the typical cycle time between succeeding generations in a light water reactor is of the order of 10 milliseconds (these are initiated by prompt neutrons neutrons directly from the fission). The multiplication factor is adjusted by changing the configuration of control rods which absorb neutrons within the reactor.
In addition to this active control two natural processes provide negative feedbacks which stablize the reactor. The first of these is a negative temperature coefficient. As the temperature of the fuel increases, the vibrational energy of the 238U increases which increases the rate of neutron absorption. Thus k decreases and the reaction rate slows down. The second is what is called a "negative void coefficient". What this means is that if the water that is used to cool and moderate the neutrons decreases in mass (for example via steam bubbles forming voids), it no longer is an effective neutron moderator which also slows down the reaction rate.
So light water reactors are inherently stable to first order. Of course things can and do go wrong over the course of time. These are normally corrected by routine adjustments of the reactor parameters. However the worst thing that can happen is for a massive loss of core coolant via a catastrophic accident. If this happens the nuclear reaction will stop but the fuel itself will continue to generate heat from the radioactive decay of fission products. Without the cooling water, the fuel elements will eventually melt. Should this occur, the fuel is contained within the extremely strong shell of the containment vessel. The melt-down will destroy the economic value of the reactor, however the public remains protected. To prevent meltdowns, current second generation reactors employ multiple backup cooling circuits driven by active components like pumps and valves. These are active safety systems and modern reactors are projected to have 1 major core damage incident per 100,000 years of reactor operation.
In contrast, new designs such as the Westinghouse AP1000 employ principles of physics such as phase change and gravity to maintain cooling water in the event of a catastrophic loss. The design is simpler, smaller and safer and cheaper than current reactors. The American NRC estimates 1 major core damage incident per 2 million years of reactor operation for the AP1000.
There are been numerous reactor incidents over the years. Some more serious than others and most recently at the Forsmark complex cited above. However Three Mile Island and the Chernobyl catastrophe are the events that most people associate with Nuclear Power accidents. The Three Mile Island accident resulted in a contained melt-down. The Chernobyl event was the result of a fundamentally unsafe reactor design (the graphite-moderated, water cooled reactor has a positive void coefficient at low power as well as no containment vessel) together with a complete lack of safety culture. The following links provide excellent descriptions of the Three Mile Island and Chernobyl events.
The Three Mile Island accident caused the US NRC to re-evaluate Nuclear Plant designs and in many cases ordered changes. These changes were both expensive and time consuming to fix but have increased the safety of US plants.
It is a condition of entry to the EU that Chernobyl style plants be shutdown.
Nuclear Waste
Spent Nuclear Fuel (SNF) from a reactor is highly radioactive. The activity can be broadly divided into two classes. Fission products, (nuclei created from the fission process) and Trans-Uranics. These are nuclei that are heavier than Uranium and are created when 238U captures a neutron. Fission products are generally short lived while TransUranics can have half-lives in the range of tens of thousands of years.
Once the SNF has been removed from the nuclear reactor it is placed in interim storage at the reactor site. Usually this consists of putting the nuclear waste into large pools of water. The water cools the radioactive isotopes and shields the environment from the radiation. Nuclear waste is typically stored in these supervised pools between 20-40 years, although this could be reduced to 5 years. As the SNF ages the radioactivity decreases, reaching the point where can be placed in dry storage facilities. Throughout this time there is a great reduction in heat and radioactivity and this makes handling of nuclear waste safer and easier. However the TransUranic component of SNF must still be isolated from the environment for 100,000 years or more. The fission products typically reach background levels after 500 years.
After this "cooling off" period the high level waste can be handled in different ways. It can be reprocessed (which invloves extracting the Uranium and Plutonium) then disposed of permanently or directly disposed permanently in a geological repository. There is also very active research into "burning" the TransUranic's in either advanced reactors or accelerator driven subcritical assemblies. However this technology has not yet been developed to work on a large scale. Finally it could be left in dry casks for "interim storage". These are predicted to be safe and stable for at least 1 century.
The most advanced concepts of long-term disposal of Nuclear waste is for deep geological burial. The Nordic countries, Sweden and Finland are perusing solutions which employ multiple barriers to provide isolation from slow-moving groundwater. Finland has selected a site for disposal, Sweden is choosing between two locations for their facility. The earliest start up date for the repositories is 2020.
Nuclear Proliferation
The Uranium enrichment used for light water reactors is not sufficient for a Nuclear Weapon and while light water reactors produces hundreds of kilograms of plutonium during operations, the plutonium produced has too much 240Pu for a useful Nuclear Weapon. What happens is that the 240Pu builds up in a reactor with operation. In a light-water reactor, the 240Pu exceeds useful concentration (7%) after 4 months of operation. Nuclear fuel is normally left in place for over two years. After this time the 240Pu concentration is 25% which is well beyond the militarily useful range.
For this reason, light water reactors are called proliferation resistant. Normal operations preclude the production of militarily useful Plutonium. Abnormal operations are easy to detect.
Conclusions
Technically, there appear to be no show stoppers for a considerable expansion of Nuclear Power throughout the world. It is a low carbon energy source with abundant fuel supplies. The technology works and has much potential for improvement. Whether or not a large scale expansion eventuates depends on how it competes with Coal on economic grounds and with the public on political grounds. This in turn will be determined by the performance of the nuclear industry over the next few years as these purportedly cheaper and safer plants are built.
I think it is worth showing the final graph from M. King Hubberts' seminal paper "Nuclear Energy and the Fossil Fuels".




Hit reddit, hit digg, hit your favorite link farm! :) Send it to slashdot, metafilter, del.icio.us, stumbleupon, etc.
Readers might like to know that sourcewatch describes the organisation Uranium Information Centre (also based in Melbourne) as "a front group for the Australian uranium mining industry. It campaigns for increased access to uranium and increased use of nuclear power around the world."
Several posters make reference to this site in the following thread.
The anti nuclear site linked to by sourcewatch (if true) makes interesting reading.
Yes (sorry, yeah), that's a fine piece of investigative work by Sourcewatch. Must've taken them all of five seconds to go to UIC's website and check out how they describe themselves:
Congratulations on uncovering their smokescreen.
They also go on to say:
Which is a level of accuracy almost completely eschewed by the type of anti-nuclear site you link to.
My point was simply to make that clear.
No one else linked to the UIC "about page".
In my view there is a difference between the somewhat nebulous "funded by companies involved in uranium exploration, mining and export in Australia" and the detail of former employees of said companies being staff of UIC.
The "about page" also has this;
"The Centre also subscribes to relevant journals, some of which provide authoritative articles and papers."
Either the peer reviewed literature is authoratative (at the time of publication) or are they wasting their money subscribing to non authoritative journals?
And when they say, "it is reviewed by someone expert in the subject matter", what does this mean? If it's not peer reviewed... is it Bruce in the room next door? He used to work for WMC!
What's your interest?
Do you dislike sourcewatch?
Are you a fan of nuclear?
Do you have shares?
And, as has been linked to at Energy Bulletin the distance between the mining industry and current Government Policy in Australia is curiously close.
(I did provide the disclaimer "if true")
Yeah Right:
You'd have to query the centre on exactly what they mean by this, but they do state above this:
Yeah Right:
Again, you would have to query the UIC on who exactly their experts are, but since they are funded by the uranium mining industry what makes you think they wouldn't have access to or use data from experts in nuclear power? Furthermore, if you doubt any of the information published on their site then take them up on their offer:
Yeah Right:
I have an interest in energy issues in general.
I have nothing in particular against Sourcewatch.
I am most definitely a fan of nuclear power.
I have no shares in the nuclear industry and have never worked for or earned money from any enterprise connected with it.
I would consider buying shares if I had money spare to invest.
Now, perhaps you would like to make clear what the UIC has to do with Martin Sevior and nuclerinfo.net, other than the fact that they are both based in Melbourne?
Yes, maybe that was a cheeky link.
Mr Seviors site appears to be geniune, and it was very astute of a member of one of the ~5 remaining functioning Physics Departments in an Australian university to anticipate the direction the PM would take the "nuclear debate" and set up this site.
The site is to be commended for its open exchange with Storm van Leeuwen and Smith, though I felt that it was a bit "apples and oranges" until about the second rebuttal. Ie SvL&S are taking a "whole of process" emergy approach, and its not clear (IMO) that Mr Sevior et al realise this in the earlier exchange (read it yourselves).
I was a little amused where we find that "Sevior contacted Dr. Roger Higgins head of Base-Metals operation for BHP-Billiton. He confirmed that the numbers listed in the document refer to the total energy usage of the entire operation. ie It includes all the energy used for all the mine outputs." But we have no idea about how BHP did the calculation.... ie does it inlcude the energy cost of manufacturing the acids brought onto the site etc, this is what I understand the SvL&S study is attempting to include.
Also, I feel the use of words like "need" in places where it could be meant "want" or "desire" indicates a simplistic projection of the status quo, indicating an underlying support or assumption of "growth" (surely not infinite?!). I would have thought a particle physicist might have shown less Newtonian thinking.
In any case, here in the bunyip democracy we have the situation that;
- The PM decides to have a "nuclear debate"
- Appoints ex Melbourne Uni physics graduate Ziggy Switkowski to investigate
- The report basically says "lets go nuclear"
- We later learn that three Melbourne business men spoke to the PM before the PM set up this process.
- The men in question are planning to set up a "Nuclear Power" company and inlcude former head of WMC (since bought out by BHP) Hugh Morgan and former Liberal Party treasurer Ron Walker
- the PM has denied any links between these events.
- Meanwhile, Hugh Morgan and other mining magnates gathered in Canberra for a presentation by the Lavosier Group.
Lets just say I'm sceptical about the transparency of some of these dealings.
Cheers.
(no more from me on this topic)
!1 !2 !3 !4 !5 !6 !7 !8 !9 !10 !11 !12 !13 !14 !15 !16 !17 !18 !19 !20 !21 !22 !23 !24 !25 !26 !27 !28 !29 !30 !31 !32 !33 !34 !35 !36 !37 !38 !39 !40 !41 !42 !43 !44 !45 !46 !47 !48 !49 !50 !51 !52 !53 !54 !55 !56 !57 !58 !59 !60 !61 !62 !63 !64 !65 !66 !67 !68 !69 !70 !71 !72 !73 !74 !75 !76 !77 !78 !79 !80 !81
France made the right decision 30 years ago and is now 70% nuclear.
Nuclear is not an option, it is THE option
But i am sure it will take people 10 years to adjust to this way of thinking.
Let the debate continue
Wind turbines + pumped storage are competitive with nuclear + less pumped storage in many locations today. The future trends seem to favor wind. Nuke will be useful in low wind resource areas.
Alan
Just on account of geography, I don't understand where we could possibly put the vast quantity of pumped storage that would be needed to sustain the USA during a relatively windless July when the unmoving high just parks and sits over much of the country, as happens every now and then. And that's before we even consider the vast powers we've foolishly ceded to the small handful of NIMBY and BANANA Luddites, who have been blocking wind power along with every other conceivable power source.
It seems inconceivable that this could work on a scale large enough to make a substantial dent in overall energy supply.
Cheapest solution is to manage Great Lakes within natural ranges and lower them during calm spell (as well as Lake Winnipeg, build out 5 more GW of hydro in Manitoba). Also drain reserviors on Columbia River, etc.
Geothermal could be made into peaking & emergency power rather than baseload. Drill 4x more wells, add turbines and use resource 25% of the time, including during calms.
I can easily design limited pumped storage that can run for one month. Long tunnel with several thousand feet differential. Large upper reservior.
No high/calm hits the entire continent. Perhaps a majority of population but not majority of land area. Sea breezes peak in summer for example and there is no stopping them.
More in my incomplete plans (53% wind, 23% nuke, 20% hydro, -19% & +15% pumped storage, etc. when I post them here.
Best Hopes,
Alan
Ontario is looking at using disused mines.
Alan:
As a native Floridian, I wonder where you plan to find a "several thousand feet differential" in my home state? (The highest point in the whole state - which had a population of nearly 16 Million people in 2000 - is less than 400 feet above sea level.)
I also wonder how the people who live and work on the Great Lakes feel about your plans to make their levels fluctuate even more than they do currently.
Rod Adams
Editor, Atomic Insights
Personally, if we react as a civilization in time, I would expect a mix of wind and nuclear with nuclear providing a guaranteed minimum base generating capacity and wind/solar providing everything over that. This would buy additional time to refine or develop new technologies to address the episodic nature of wind/solar power generation.
Timing is everything. I think the alternatives are there. The question, per the Hirsch Report, is did we start ramping them up soon enough?
True Poly,
A recent debate has been raging here in Sydney (Australia) about the problems of fresh water. Our dams are around 30% and falling. It is critical that we get new fresh water supplies since rainfall is less reliable. There are two proposed options:
1. Recycle sewage
2. Desalination.
Everything weighs toward recycling.
But, for the only point that matters, a desalination plant will be built.
The one point: public opinion on drinking someone else's toilet water.
The committee decided to go with the worst, desalination, option because there is no hope, without 10 years education, of getting the public to accept the other option. And the need is critical.
Now, when we get to nuclear power, a truly controversial issue. Just how long will it take to win the public over?
You forgot about water. France had to shut down reactors last summer because the intake water was too warm from excessive heat. They are ok in cold climates but much of the world population lives in hot areas with limited water resources.
It is a moot point anyways becusae you won't be able to build them fast enough to keep up with depletion.
No worries Mate,
We'll build a coal-fired power station right beside it to create electricity for a water-cooling facility.
Next problem to solve?
The answer to that is build them on the coast. That's where the Australian population is anyway.
(the seaside plants in France don't have to reduce power in summer, only the riverside ones)
They didn't generally need to shut down, it just decreased their output. The french shouldn't have gone quite so cheap on the cooling systems and then this wouldn't have happened, case closed.
The same thing would happen to any thermal plant (coal fired, for instance), and to a lesser degree to combined cycle natural gas, if you go cheap on the cooling systems.
The Union Of Concerned Scientists certainly do not seem to agree:
"New Report: Long Shutdowns Prove Nuclear Power More Dangerous and Expensive than Necessary
Neglect of Safety Costs Ratepayers, Stockholders $82 Billion"
http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/new-report-long-shutdowns.html
"Nuclear Reprocessing: Dangerous, Dirty, and Expensive
Why Extracting Plutonium from Spent Nuclear Reactor Fuel Is a Bad Idea"
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_terrorism/extracting-pluto...
At least some prominent Australians (such as Professor Stuart White, director of the Institute for Sustainable Futures at the University of Technology, Sydney) disagree with the positions put forth in the header article:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/more-threat-than-panacea/2006/10/0...
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Opinion/The-nuclear-power-option--expensive-i...
The Rocky Mountain Institute (Amory Lovins) doesn't care for it, not surprisingly:
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid305.php
Of course members of Greenpeace have some good points:
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1802.shtml
Finally, read the EIA's own paper on the matter:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/page/nuclearenvissues.html
The articles are all worth reading, regardless of your position on the pros or cons of nuclear power.
They're an explicitly anti-nuclear orgasation...
Most of what you're posting is either irrelevant (nuclear reprocessing via PUREX process) or just hatchet job anti-nuclear activism.
Duplicate post
For example Westinghouse claims its Advanced PWR reactor, the AP1000, will cost USD $1500-$1800 per KW for the first reactor and may fall to USD $1200 per KW for subsequent reactors.
Believe it when I see it. The French got it down to around $2500/KW with volume and state financing. I find it hard to believe that a nuke plant will ever require less investment than a coal burner ($1500/kw).
Inexpensive Chinese labor will make a difference.
Alan
Depending how long the Yuan remains pegged to the dollar
Are externalities of CO2 environmental degradation taken into account on those figures by TJ? They seem to always be forgotten, like New Orleans. On the Chinese labour (CAN. SP., sorry eh!) question, I thought you guys (assuming US citizenship by your (mis)spelling of the english word Labour) had enough to deal with in Mexican Labour and what are those things the Chinese are crashing into each other with? Looks like a wage increase there.
By the way is anyone else finding the section titled 'Energy Lifecycle of Nuclear Power' in the article confusing to the point of incomprehensibility?
Have fun, its P.O.
Black Bald.
Alan
Not to build a nuclear powerplant?
1. I don't think any country would welcome Chinese coolies being imported to build a high technology, security sensitive piece of kit
2. a lot of the cost is 'on site'. See 1. In fact the biggest single cost is the financing cost, which the labour price can't do much about.
3. For the manufactured bits, I am not convinced that the labour is the biggest cost.
You need a highly skilled, highly trained workforce. And this isn't something where you want your intellectual property being given to a country where IP is notoriously hard to protect.
Nuclear plants might have costs comparable to coal if the coal plant had to count the cost of waste disposal (CO2 GW mitigation) as the nuclear plant does.
Absolutely.
MIT pegged it at c. $100/tonne of carbon.
Their figure for nuclear power is 6.75 cents/kwhr. They think that could be lowered by 25%, over time.
That puts nuclear in the same range band as wind.
If you don't assume a price for carbon, then no technology makes sense other than supercritical steam coal fired. Which TXU more or less pointed out.
Valuethinker:
Like all economic projections, the MIT study had to make