Science 1101 Part 2: Oil as a Liquid Fuel and Expected Peak Oil Impacts
Posted by Gail the Actuary on February 8, 2008 - 11:00am
Topic: Economics/Finance
Tags: battery operated car, conservation, corn ethanol, curriculum, economists, ethanol, Food Prices, hydrogen, oil prices, peak oil, Robert Ayres [list all tags]
This is Part 2 of my post relating to curriculum for a science peak oil course. It incorporates changes based on many of the comments made below. Part 1 can be found here. A PDF version which contains both Part 1 and Part 2 can be found at this link.
One theme of Part 2 is energy, and why energy is important to our standard of living. I try to compare the energy in oil to the energy in food. To make the comparison more understandable, I convert energy to kilocalories, since most people are familiar with calories in food. I also point out the errors of economists, both in the text and in the discussion questions at the end.
Another theme is the special characteristics of oil, and why oil is valued as a liquid fuel. I think we are sometimes kind of fuzzy in our thinking about substitutes for liquid fuel. We don't think about our built infrastructure, and just assume electricity can be substituted for oil when it really is at best a very long-term alternative. I discuss various alternatives including battery-operated cars, hydrogen, and conservation. The two sections relating to corn ethanol could probably be a post of their own.
I also talk about the impact of oil on prices. I make the point that big increases in petroleum prices are likely, with only a small shortage of oil. I also point our that food prices are likely to increase, partly because of the use of petroleum for food production, and partly because corn for ethanol competes with food for land use.
1. Why is petroleum so highly valued?
The main reason that petroleum is highly valued is for its energy content. If petroleum is burned, it can do work that makes our lives easier. For example it can be used to power an automobile or an airplane. We eat food to give us energy that allows us to do work of various kinds. In many ways, petroleum is the equivalent of food for many types of mechanical objects. For example, petroleum allows us to drive a car, and to do the work of transporting our luggage and ourselves. If we didn’t have petroleum, we would have to do the work ourselves – walk and carry our own luggage.
Another reason petroleum is valued is for all the things that can be created from the petroleum itself, without burning it. Final products include fabrics, plastics, drugs, herbicides, insecticides, and much more. At some point, we may decide oil is too valuable to burn. These products are very valuable, and it would be difficult to find replacements.
2. What is the relationship between energy use and standard of living?
There is a close tie between energy use and standard of living. Energy use gives us mechanical slaves that can do much work that we could do ourselves, but would take much longer. For example, mechanical equipment is used to plant and harvest crops, and to wash and package the food. Trucks are used to transport food to market. We could do many of these steps ourselves, by digging in the ground, picking the crops ourselves, and walking to market with the produce, but it would take much more of our own physical work.
Many economists dismiss the close tie between energy and standard of living. They say that energy costs are only a small portion of total costs, so energy is not very important. This reasoning is not correct. If there is a shortage of petroleum, it is in some ways analogous to a shortage of food. The real problem is not that we have to pay more; it is that we have to get along with less. If our diet were reduced from 2,000 calories a day to 1,900, it would make a difference to our lives. If the economy suddenly experiences a shortfall in petroleum products, fewer goods can be transported to market, and someone will have to do without a product or service that they would otherwise have had.
Robert Ayers and Benjamin Warr showed the close relationship between energy use and standard of living, disproving the standard belief of economists. In particular, they showed that there is a very strong tie between energy use, including the more efficient use of energy, and economic growth. http://www.iea.org/Textbase/work/2004/eewp/Ayres-paper1.pdf
3. Why is petroleum more highly valued than other forms of energy?
There are many reasons:
a. Its abundance. Petroleum is the largest energy source for the United States, comprising 40% of our energy use. Coal and natural gas are each a little over half as big (23%). The new alternatives are tiny in comparison.
b. The fact that it is a liquid. Liquids are easy to transport and store. Imagine filling your fuel tank with coal!
c. Its high level of concentration. Those of us who have done cooking or counted calories know that oils have a lot more calories for the same volume than other foods. It is the same way with fuel. Gasoline has 115,000 Btu per gallon, or in terms we are more familiar with, 29,000 calories (of the type you eat in food –- actually kilocalories) per gallon. Ethanol, which is equivalent to alcohol in alcoholic beverages, has only two-thirds as many calories (that is, energy) per gallon.
d. Its low price. The reason oil has historically been inexpensive is that it takes a relatively small amount of resources to extract oil. In the early days of production, it took roughly the energy of one barrel of oil, plus a few other inputs (human labor and iron ore) to extract 100 barrels of oil. Even recently, it has taken as little as the equivalent as 15 barrels of oil (plus human labor and a few other inputs) to produce 100 barrels of oil.
e. Very favorable energy balance. This is just the flip side of Item d, oil's low price. If it only takes one barrel of oil to produce 100 barrels of oil, a small investment can create a huge amount of energy. Even if it takes 15 barrels of oil to produce 100 barrels of oil, there is still a very favorable return. This extra energy benefits society in many ways. It gives us the extra energy we need to build roads and malls and better our lifestyle.
f. Built Infrastructure. Nearly all of the cars, trucks, airplanes, and farm equipment currently in use were designed to burn oil products. While theoretically they could be replaced, this is a huge sunk cost. It would require technical innovation, a large investment of fuel and other resources, plus a timeframe of thirty or more years to convert to a new base.
g. Non-intermittent supply. At least historically, the supply of oil has been there, so that we could depend on it. We didn’t have to worry whether the wind was blowing, or a cloud was covering the sun.
4. What are petroleum's disadvantages?
a. Not renewable. The supply is depleting. Decline may begin within a few years.
b. Not environmentally friendly. There are problems in three different areas:
Global warming gases. Oil is only 80% as bad as coal in terms of the amount of carbon dioxide formed per unit of energy, but 40% worse than natural gas. Because we use so much oil, total carbon dioxide is more from oil than from coal or natural gas.
Air pollution. Smog, airborne particulate matter, and some carcinogens are the indirect result of the burning of petroleum.
Local environmental damage. Spills. Pollution problems particularly for Canadian oil sands, where much water is required for extraction. http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/10/6304/
5. How are oil and gasoline priced?
Oil is priced based on supply and demand. If there is not sufficient oil for everyone who wants it, the price increases until some would-be buyers are priced out of the market or an alternative appears. Additionally, the price must be high enough to cover the cost of extraction of even recently discovered oil. If the price drops too low, or it the likelihood of profit is too low because of punitive taxation, oil companies will discontinue their attempts to produce more oil.
Prices tend to “shoot up” if there is a shortage oil or gasoline, because people are unwilling to go without, and substitutes are very limited. A rough estimate is that 1% shortfall in supply will result in a 17% increase in gasoline prices, and a 2% shortfall will result in a 33% increase in prices. (This is based on a shot-term price elasticity of demand of .06. See http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8893/01-14-GasolinePrices.pdf )
The price of gasoline is fairly closely related to the price of oil, plus the additional costs involved. One US Energy Information Administration government website shows this relationship:

6. How does corn-based ethanol compare to petroleum as a solution to our energy needs?
Corn-based ethanol is a very poor substitute for petroleum. Actually, it is only, at best, a substitute for gasoline. Other petroleum products, such as diesel, lubricating oil, and asphalt require different types of substitutes.
The major problems with ethanol from corn are
a. Not scalable. A very large amount of land is required to produce a small amount of fuel. In 2007, over 20% of America’s corn was devoted to ethanol, but this provided only the energy equivalent of 3% of our gasoline use (or 1.1% of our petroleum use). More than doubling this will be very difficult.
b. Causes food prices increases. Competition of corn for land raises food prices. We end up paying a second time for corn ethanol through higher food prices.
c. Causes fertilizer shortages. Corn uses a lot of fertilizer. Fertilizer is made from natural gas and mostly imported. Fertilizer prices are now double what they were a year ago. The situation may get worse in future years and lead to shortages of fertilizer for food crops.
d. Environmental impacts as bad as gasoline (or worse). There are problems in several areas. Ethanol produces more global warming gasses than gasoline, according to recent studies. Older studies say that ethanol might produce slightly less global warming gasses than gasoline, but even this is not much help. http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2007/September/21090701.asp http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/biofuels-make-cl...
A Stanford study says that air pollution is also worse than with gasoline. Ozone, which causes smog, is likely to be worse with ethanol than gasoline. Ethanol decreases some carcinogens, but increases others. http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2007/april18/ethanol-041807.html
The planting of corn also has negative environmental impacts, including aquifer depletion, topsoil erosion, and fertilizer runoff. These are especially problems if expansion of corn acreage means that corn is planted in hilly or arid locations where it would not usually be planted.
e. Energy intensive. Nearly as much energy must be used to make ethanol as is gotten back in return, so we are mostly recycling scarce fuels. Ethanol is not like petroleum, which has a positive energy balance to benefit our standard of living. If corn ethanol replaces petroleum, the impact on standard of living is likely to be negative. (See Item 3e)
f. Poor fit with petroleum system. At most 10% ethanol can be used in gasoline, without causing corrosion, unless autos are especially modified. Ethanol cannot be transported by pipeline, so costly and complex special arrangements must be made.
g. Less energy per gallon than oil. Ethanol has only about two-thirds the energy (calories) of gasoline.
h. Summer gasoline price run-up. Adding ethanol to gasoline makes gasoline evaporate at lower temperatures. To counter this, the fraction of gasoline that evaporates most easily (molecules with 4 or 5 carbon atoms, rather than 6 to 10 carbon molecules) must be removed from the gasoline mixture. Removing this portion of the gasoline reduces supply in the summer, and increases prices.
i. Drought sensitive. Supply depends on good weather in growing regions. http://collinpeterson.house.gov/PDF/ethanol.pdf
j. Expensive. Requires subsidies to be cost-competitive. Subsidies raise tax levels. Even with subsidies, ethanol's cost is often higher than that of gasoline.
7. Why is ethanol so popular?
The primary reason ethanol is popular is because it makes legislators look like they are doing something about reducing imports of gasoline. People do not realize that the benefit is tiny at best, and offset by many other problems.
The use of corn ethanol was expanded before people had a chance to learn its real-world problems. Many continue to support it because they believe it will be a “bridge” to better second generation fuels, such as cellulosic ethanol.
Corn ethanol also provides income to investors in biofuel refineries and jobs in rural areas. The offsetting costs of subsidies and higher food prices are far enough removed that people are not aware of them.
Car manufacturers like ethanol also because of a loophole that allows them to get credit for cars with higher mileage than they really have. Because of this, car manufacturers can build more gas-guzzlers than they would otherwise and still meet mileage requirements.
Ethanol’s use was expanded in 2005 and 2006 because clean air laws required the use of an additive called an “oxygenate”. The previous oxygenate, MTBE, had been found to be unsatisfactory. A number of people have raised the question as to whether oxygenates are really needed any more. Engines manufactured since 1994 have substantially reduced tailpipe emissions, so that an oxygenate may not to be needed.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104259,00.html
8. What other possibilities are there as a replacement for oil as a liquid fuel?
Some other biofuel possibilities include the following:
a. Biodiesel from rapeseed. This is equivalent to what we in the US would call “canola oil”. Use of farmland for nonfood items is likely to drive up food costs. Heavy user of fertilizer. Has somewhat better energy balance than corn-ethanol. Mostly produced in Europe.
b. Cellulosic ethanol. Can be made experimentally, but isn’t yet commercially viable. Would be made from non-food bio-products such as wood, switchgrass, and corn stalks. Likely to be more energy efficient than corn ethanol, and cause less pressure on land use. Most methods are not economic at this time, but one approach claims better success.
Larger potential volume than corn ethanol, but still would not replace more than 20% of petroleum use. Cellulosic ethanol will compete with electricity generation for the use of the same biomass. Some analyses indicate that cellulosic ethanol is not the best use for biomass. http://www.coskataenergy.com/process.html http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/19842/ (Requires free registration)
c. Biodiesel from left-over oil. Can be made from leftover vegetable oil or from animal fat. Energy efficient, but total volume likely to be small.
d. Ethanol from sugar cane. Not cost efficient in US; Brazil makes low-cost product with much hand labor. Brazilian product is very energy efficient, but has human rights issues for laborers. Relatively small amount available for export. Would be another source of imported fuel.
e. Biodiesel from palm oil. Also made from other tree fruits. Often grown on forest land that has been cleared for this purpose, so has very adverse environmental impacts. Often competes with food use for oil. Would be another source of imported fuel.
f. Biodiesel from algae. Under investigation, but no one has found a way to do this in a commercially viable way yet. Requires little land use.
Besides biofuel approaches, there are also fossil fuel approaches:
a. Coal to liquid. Process to convert coal to a petroleum substitute was developed many years ago. Method is quite energy intensive. Has much worse carbon dioxide impact than petroleum. Probably less expensive than most biofuels. Several plants now being planned.
b. Natural gas to liquid. It is theoretically possible to convert natural gas to a liquid fuel, but it is very expensive and not much used. Cars can also be adapted to run on compressed natural gas. Natural gas solutions may work in some parts of the world, but supply is not adequate in North America, and imports are very limited.
9. How about solutions such as wind turbines, solar voltaic panels, battery operated cars, and hydrogen powered cars?
None of these are liquid fuels. They don’t directly solve our need for something to keep are current fleet of vehicles and other devices using petroleum products operating. It is possible that over the very long term they can be part of the solution, but they cannot keep our current fleet on the road and our airplanes in the air.
Wind turbines and solar voltaic panels really relate to our need for better sources of electricity. Electrical supply is likely also to be a problem in the future, but we have not attempted to address the electrical supply issue in this document.
Battery-powered cars are a worthwhile idea, but there are some obstacles that need to be overcome. http://www.evworld.com/
a. Common materials. Batteries that require rare minerals will not scale up to the volume needed for millions of cars. If we do not require too long a range, more options may be available. It is possible that ultra-capacitors may be part of the solution. http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/ultracapacitors.html
b. Long time frame. Even if technology were fully perfected today, it would still take 15 to 20 years to get factories built, and the current fleet of cars replaced. Peak oil may delay this further.
c. Electricity issues. We assume that adequate excess electricity will be available to charge the cars 20 or 30 years from now, but that may not be the case. It would be ideal if a way could be found to use solar power to charge the cars. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3316 http://jalopnik.com/335956/austrailian-solar-bus-is-mighty-green-mighty-...
Hydrogen powered cars seem to be much farther in the future than battery powered cars. Hydrogen is not a fuel source; it is more like a battery. Somehow, we would have to produce the huge amount of energy that would be necessary to separate the hydrogen from the compounds in which it is found. Besides having to build new cars, we would have to build a new pipeline network, a new set of filling stations, and the infrastructure to make this work. The whole process would be extremely expensive and likely require over 30 years.
10. Will biofuels and the other alternatives be sufficient to compensate for the petroleum shortage?
No, not based on what we know today. If nothing else, there will be a time-gap before the transition to alternatives can be made. There are a lot of alternatives under consideration, but none, by itself, seems likely to solve our need for a liquid fuel substitute in the timeframe in which it is needed.
Conservation will need to be an important part of the solution to our liquid fuel shortage. Better use of what we have, like carpooling, is one possibility. Another is electrified rail transportation. Streetcars were used years ago in many places, and could be built again, without developing new technology. Existing rail systems could be enhanced to permit more freight to be transported by rail. In some cases, sails can be added to boats to reduce fuel needs. If need be, personal vehicles can be made much smaller than we drive today, perhaps akin to golf carts or electric bicycles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram
11. Besides higher oil prices, what types of impacts can we expect from peak oil?
Increasing food prices. One reason is that oil is used in planting, harvesting, packaging, and transporting food. Another reason is that growing corn for ethanol will compete with other uses of land, and drive food prices up. Also, if there are fertilizer shortages, yields may be lower.
More defaults on loans can be expected, as food and petroleum prices increase. Families will have less money left over to pay mortgages and credit card debt.
Pre-peak impacts. Increases in oil and food prices are likely to begin even before peak hits, and seem to be happening already. All that is needed is a gap between oil supply and demand (see Part 1, Figure 5), not an actual decline. Ethanol-induced land shortages also contribute to the food price increases. Higher oil and food prices may be contributing to current US financial problems.
Reduced discretionary spending. People will spend less on things like restaurant food and out-of-town vacations.
Reduced economic growth or actual decline appears likely.
12. What are the implications of the likely shortfall in oil production on career opportunities?
Careers in fields that are very petroleum-dependent may not be good choices. For example, there will likely be fewer airline pilots in 2040 than there are today.
If there is less petroleum, people are likely to be interested in having stores nearby that they can walk to. Thus, there may be an opportunity for starting a small store in your own neighborhood, or developing a neighborhood clinic.
Recycled products, especially those using petroleum inputs, are also likely to become more important. There may be careers in buying and selling these products.
There is clearly a need for more scientist and engineers in many energy-related fields. We need to find better ways to extract the oil that is available, and we need to develop more fuel-efficient vehicles. We need to find more and better petroleum alternatives, and to find ways to scale up these alternatives to the quantities needed as replacements for petroleum products.
13. Are there any actions we should take?
These are several ideas:
a. When buying a car, purchase the smallest, most fuel-efficient model you can find.
b. Consider sharing rides with someone else who is commuting in the same general direction, or take public transportation.
c. Make greater use of work-at-home programs and distance learning programs. Or live in a dorm.
d. Move closer to work or school.
e. When distances are short, walk or ride a bicycle, rather than drive.
f. Use recycling, especially for petroleum-based products like plastic. Other recycling is also helpful from a general energy-saving perspective, but not necessarily from a petroleum-saving perspective.
g. Avoid fruits and vegetables that have been flown to the United States from around the world. These tend to be quite expensive.
h. Reduce trips taken to distant locations, whether by air or automobile.
One idea which looks at the shortfall in a different way is to reduce meat consumption by eating smaller portions of meat or by substituting beans for meat in some meals. We are currently using biofuels as a substitute for petroleum, and this puts huge pressure on the food supply. By eating less meat, a person can help reduce the pressure on the food supply.
Animals eat several times as many calories in grain products as they produce in meat calories. By eating less meat, fewer acres of grains need to be planted to meet our food needs. We also reduce the production of global warming gasses, because animals, particularly cows, are big contributors to these gasses.
Another idea is to get involved with campus groups or political groups to try to solve some of the problems in the years ahead. It is likely to be a difficult adjustment, but working together we are likely to be able to accomplish more than we can as individuals.
Part 2 – Discussion Questions
1. US oil consumption is about 25 barrels per year for each person in the United States. There are 42 gallons in a barrel, and each gallon contains on averages 34,800 (kilo) calories (gasoline has less, asphalt has more). How many (kilo) calories does this equate to? (Answer: 36,540,000)
If we had food equivalent to this many calories, how many people could be fed with this many calories, assuming people, on average, eat 2,000 (kilo) calories a day? (Answer: 50)
What does this relationship say about the likelihood that we will be able to grow enough crops to turn into biofuels to meet our current petroleum usage?
2. If oil rationing were imposed, and the amount of gasoline you could purchase were limited to half of what you are currently using today, how would that change your driving / commuting?
3. If you were the president of the United States, and needed to impose rationing, in what order would you rank the following in priority.
a. Military
b. Farmers
c. Chemical feedstock use
d. Transportation of food
e. Mining of coal and uranium
f. Transportation of non-food items
g. Railroad and bus fuel
h. Air travel
i. Emergency services (ambulance, police)
j. People with jobs
k. People without jobs (retired, students)
4. There have been numerous governmental studies about peak oil. It is clear from public comments that Alan Greenspan is a believer in peak oil, as is former President Clinton. President Bush and Dick Cheney worked in the oil industry before their election.
Do you think that President George W. Bush is aware of peak oil? If so, how do you think it has affected Bush’s presidency? How long do you think that they have been aware of peak oil? Do you think it has had any impact on their policies? Why haven’t they said anything about peak oil? http://search.doe.gov/search?output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&ie... http://www.peakoil.net/Articles2005/Westervelt_EnergyTrends__TN.pdf http://www.straight.com/article/clinton-raises-alarm-about-oil-depletion... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119763743685729349.html (Greenspan) http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/others/pdf/Oil_Peaking_NETL.pdf
5. One of the reasons that there has been little said about peak oil is that economists keep saying that peak should not be no problem; in a free market economy, substitutes will be found.
Name three substitutes for food.
How does your answer to the substitutes for food question suggest that economic theory may be incorrect in with respect to replacements for liquid fuels?
6. If biofuels, at least at this point, seem to have as many environmental problems as oil, would it make sense to concentrate our efforts on enhanced oil recovery? How about coal to liquid?
For further reading – Relates to both Part 1 and Part 2:
A number of links are given in the reading material. In addition, some websites that may be of interest are
www.TheOilDrum.com - Discussion about energy and our future, including peak oil. Many articles written for the site, plus news items related to energy, and discussion about the various items. I write as “Gail the Actuary” for this site. A list of my articles can be found at http://www.theoildrum.com/user/Gail+the+Actuary/stories
www.EnergyBulletin.net - Peak oil related news items. No discussion.
Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas - USA http://www.aspo-usa.com/ Has a good weekly newsletter, and an annual conference.
Educational website about oil and gas, how it is formed, and production ins and outs http://www.ukooa.co.uk/education/storyofoil/index.cfm
“Peaking of World Oil Production: Impacts, Mitigation, and Risk Management” by Robert Hirsch, Roger Bezdek, and Robert Wendling. Analysis of peak oil and mitigation options, prepared for the US Department of Energy in early 2005. http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/others/pdf/Oil_Peaking_NETL.pdf
Rear Admiral Hyman Rickover’s 1957 speech talking about the expected future decline in fossil fuel resources and the need to tell the younger generation. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2724
Myths of Biofuels - Talk by David Fridley - Free video for download - http://www.sfbayoil.org/sfoa/myths/index.html
Peak Oil and the Fate of Humanity – Series of downloadable presentations – Canadian http://www.peakoilandhumanity.com/chapter_choice.htm
Global Oil Supply: Barriers to Investment - Presentation by David Fyfe of International Energy Agency http://www.clingendael.nl/ciep/events/20080214/20080214_ciep_fyfe.pdf



ammonia is a renewable, carbon-free liquid fuel.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that still just hypothetical? I have seen various schemes suggested, but to my knowledge nobody has actually demonstrated a continuous, scaled-up ammonia process based on renewable energy.
It seems like, too, if we actually could produce ammonia from renewable energy, our greatest need for it would be for fertilizer. You point our in your article Ammonia and Biofuels that it would take 77,600 wind turbines to produce the amount of ammonia that we currently use for fertilizer. We would need a huge multiple of that amount to produce the amount of ammonia we would need for any reasonable amount of replacement fuel.
if we are talking about sustainability then ammonia is better used as fuel rather than fertilizer while biomass is better used as (feedstock for) fertilizer rather than biofuel (unless it is a byproduct from a digester). it will be a huge undertaking to solve our energy problem no matter which way we pick.
We don't need to recover all the ammonia we just need to recover the loss plus demand growth. One other point, did anyone notice the article about the farmer redirecting exhaust from his tractor to fertilize his fields? He noted a 75% reduction in his need for chemical fertilizer.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2006/06/23/mb-farm-exhaust-20060...
I thought the idea was very interesting, if it could be made to work. I have read several times about people adding carbon to the soil, and increasing fertility, and this seems to follow the same principle.
Well, according to the article, the farmer modified his equipment and then noted the lessened need for fertilizer to produce comparable yields. So according to the article it worked. Doesn't seem to be difficult to scale -- slight modification to tractor exhaust -- and works with existing infrastructure.
Short term solution that adds efficiency and reduces demand to a depleting supply. Sounds like a win-win.
if that indeed works as claimed, wouldn't that also sequester CO2 from the exhaust?
"Carlisle said testing has shown the system collects approximately 95 per cent of his equipment's emissions, and has reduced his need to add nitrogen and other fertilizers."
This seems to imply that it does. But I don't honestly know. It's novel ideas like this that I really like. Hopefully, the process works as claimed and becomes more widely accepted practice.
I think it's the nitrogen oxides in the exhaust, of which there are plenty because of a diesel's high combustion temperature, that is doing the fertilizing, not the carbon. If this is so, this could be a huge breakthrough in reducing fertilizer need. NOx must be finding some way to bind to the soil particles and be converted to usable nitrogen through microbic activity. Somebody should find a grad student who's looking for a dissertation research topic. For small grains (wheat, barley, rye) nitrogen is the primary fertility need. Usually there's enough phosphate and potash in the soil that little of those need to be added. (This is not the case for corn.)
It would be limited to air-seeder seed delivery systems, which have become the standard for small grain farming on the plains. Air seeders are a combination of field cultivator and seed injector. Tillage, planting and fertilizing are done in one pass through the field. Seed is kept in a big hopper, towed behind the cultivator, and is injected through plastic hoses, exiting underground just behind each cultivator shovel. Air seeders are usually 40 to 60 feet wide. They can plant over 40 acres per hour.
Some more thoughts on what might be happening. NO2 and NO3 don't like to stay in the soil. Perhaps the relatively high 150 F cooled-down exhaust temperature plus the abundant water vapor in the exhaust are helping the NOx stay put. That, in addition with the low ground temperatures (on the Northern Plains small grains are seeded as early as possible after the frost comes out of the ground) and low rainfall (S/W Manitoba gets about 16 inches total moisture per year) could be keeping these gases in place long enough for the nitrogen to get fixed.
My goodness. That's a lot more technical knowledge on the subject than I could hope for. But reading your post does give me a more distinct idea of the problem. I wonder if saturating the seed with NOx is what's causing the fixing/fertilizing to take place? Do you think this is a technique that could be used in the US or other places around the world with certain crops and farm sizes?
It's not saturating the seed; it's going into the soil. The fact that this is being done while seeding the field is incidental. The same technique could be used with any ground preparation that is separate from seeding. I don't know if it would work with no-till row-crops since the injection points are so far apart. Small grain is seeded on 6" to 7" row spacing, and row crops are done on a 22" to 30" spacing. On a wide spacing, as the roots spread out underground beyond the row, they would become nitrogen starved. That's one reason corn is side-dressed with nitrogen fertilizer after it is well leafed out.
if this can serve as a correction:
http://www.tcbmag.com/industriestrends/energy/85219p1.aspx
That's not a correction; it's a validation of what I wrote: "nobody has actually demonstrated a continuous, scaled-up ammonia process based on renewable energy."
Also, doesn't ammonia combustion produce NOx and nitric acid? What is the plan for dealing with them?
From the article:
"The potential, however, is far reaching. Collectively, all of the wind turbines that now generate electricity in Minnesota have a bit less than 1 gigawatt of capacity. According to Reese, it would take only double that capacity for wind power to produce all of the nitrogenous fertilizer used by every farm in the state."
Again, as I said: Has not been demonstrated. It is sort of like saying there is enough biomass to run all of our cars on. Then why aren't we doing it? Because there are many complicating factors in the details.
Like I said in my first response, I am aware of the ideas. But someone is going to have to demonstrate that it works at scale. Splitting water, separating the hydrogen, getting it to where you want it - those are the sorts of details one has to work through.
let me quote John Holbrook - one of the experts on the issue:
There is no question that ammonia can be produced on a large scale using
renewable energy. The best example was Norway, where the company Norsk
Hydro used hydroelectric power to produce NH3 for six decades in the 20th
century. At peak capacity, a single Hydro plant was operating 150 MW of
electrolzyer capacity, which generated 64 tons of H2 per day (equivalent to
64,000 gallons of gasoline) and 365 tons of NH3 per day.
The question is not really whether large amounts of NH3 can be made using
wind, solar, or hydroelectric power, it's whether it can be done cost
competitively. The Norsk Hydro plant was mothballed about twenty years ago
because the electrolyzer approach for producing NH3 just could not compete
with NH3 produced using cheap natural gas. The relatively low efficiency of
the electrolyzes and their high capital costs essentially put them out of
business. It simply is cheaper to get your hydrogen for ammonia by
reforming natural gas than by cracking water using electrolysis, or at least
it was at that time..
The landscape has changed a bit for electrolyzer technology since then with
new technologies such as PEM electrolyzers, and new companies such as ITM
Power (UK) and GE getting into the area. In both of those instances, the
market driver has been to supply H2 to the Hydrogen Economy, not to
manufacture NH3, but the technology improvements and lowered capital costs
would still apply to NH3 production.
Is the cost reduction enough to make it competitive or marginally competitive with FF?
it all depends on where the price point of NG is or if NG should be used for such purpose at all. with the advent of new technology such as solid state ammonia synthesis (SSAS), producing ammonia from RE will be cheaper than producing hydrogen via electrolysis.
Also, doesn't ammonia combustion produce NOx and nitric acid? What is the plan for dealing with them?
ammonia combustion produces less NOx than that of FF. if further reduction of NOx is desired, ammonia or urea can be used for that purpose. http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/03/scr-sncr/Final_ralst... this is the way used in some of the high end cars made by Mercedes Benz.
do you have any referable source about nitric acid produced by ammonia combustion?
do you have any referable source about nitric acid produced by ammonia combustion?
Well, you can work out the stoichiometry. You are combusting a nitrogen compound with oxygen, you are going to end up with a nitrogen/oxygen compound in the product.
What do you think the combustion reaction looks like? I suppose if there is an excess of oxygen, the nitric acid may oxidize to nitrogen, but if the reaction isn't fast, that's going to be a very corrosive step.
Has anyone actually used ammonia in any kind of engine in an extended application?
gee, i have to admit that i must have been left behind since i didn't attend one of these k12 schools. all i know is that the dominant reaction in the combustion is:
4 NH3 + 3 O2 -> 2 N2 + 6 H2O
Has anyone actually used ammonia in any kind of engine in an extended application?
people used ammonia in trucks and buses in Europe during WWII and never heard of any report of engine corrosion. GM and UC berkeley conducted extensive ammonia ICE researches during 1960s and 70s for the army, reported specifically that no corrosion was observed in the engines. there is a pick-up truck fueled by ammonia in operation for years now in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Do you have some links to the applications? I would like to read more. I don't discount anything before investigating (unless there is a clear knockout factor, or it violates thermodynamics). I have run across some wacky ideas that turned out to be promising.
sure. here are some links as a starter:
http://www.energy.iastate.edu/Renewable/ammonia/ammonia.htm
http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/webonly/webex710.html
talking about wackiness, NASA's X-15 rocket plane is ammonia fueled. for the publicly disclosed reports from the army funded ammonia fuel research, search
http://stinet.dtic.mil/str/quick-tr.html
with key words of ammonia fuel or ammonia combustion.
You might be interested in the guest essay I posted on my blog a little over a year ago by Dave Bradley on this subject:
http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2006/09/ammonia-and-biofuels.html
I thought it was an interesting and novel concept, but wasn't sure about viability.
Dave and i are in touch via direct channels. he has been following this thread. ;)
There was a small plant in Iceland (used 10 MW from memory) that made fertilizer from air for several decades, till aluminum smelters outbid them. and they needed major refurbishment.
Earlier plants in Norway (in the era when they had electric boilers, create steam with electrical resistance for industrial processes vs. creating steam to make electricity).
Also plans for the Grand Inga Hydroelectric Project (44 GW) include ammonia production on a seasonal basis (low capital cost when electricity is in surplus).
Alan
Gail, you continue to amaze me with your ability to write readable material. This is good. A minor correction, I believe when discussing disadvantages you meant to say natural gas rather than coal when saying it is 40% worse than.
Oops! I fixed it. Sometimes it is difficult to see the obvious.
Wow,
I hate to rain on your parade but I find an awful lot of opinion crammed in to this college course and not a lot of facts.
I would revise your approach completely.
On Peak Oil you are 100% correct, we are peaking now. You're on terra firma here.
You should take some time to explain what Hubbert's Curve is (and that it is a purely mathematical construct--not necessarily a bad thing, all statistical curves are like that).
You should cover Peak Oil, Peak Gas, Peak Coal, Peak Copper, etc.
One thing you almost completely write off is unconventional oil-tar sands, oil shale and (super)heavy oil. EROEI analysis of these are flawed, IMHO. It does take energy to 'manufacture' these fuels(it does to make gasoline, etc. also) but that will not stop people from manufacturing fuel.
Economic analysis is more appropriate. Things look very dark indeed if you take unconventional oil off the table. In reality they are being developed. They need to be developed responsibly.
Ethanol, biofuels are similarly written off. Ethanol is certainly economic at present, but it is not capable of replacing ALL gasoline--what of it? Nothing can do that. Our cars are too inefficient PERIOD. Biofuels are cleaner than fossil fuels and because they are net energy positive we can use fossil fuels to make more fuel to compensate for fossil fuel depletion. It will never cover our current waste but it helps at the margins.
You should discuss battery powered cars
(largely ficitious) in terms of BOE, since almost all their energy comes for coal or nuclear power. For example, by burning coal, an electric car will burn more fossil fuel than all but the worse gas guzzlers; .3kwh/mi x 10000 mi /(2000kwh per ton x 31% efficiency) x 4.879 barrels per ton= 21.6 barrels of oil equivalent whereas
a 10000 mi/20 mpg car=500 gallons of gasoline (13 barrels of oil equivalent).
Kilocalories, is a horrible idea--use barrels of oil equivalent BOE, this is they way energy is usually discussed. Food is not energy; it makes it look like you are building a 'strawman' argument--linking energy directly with food. That argument is easily disproven.
Your lifestyle suggestions are also a bit too 'nicie-nice'(buying a hybrid though is an excellent idea-(almost)everyone NEEDS a car). People will do all those things as oil depletion takes hold. People really need to hunker down for the storm, they must resign themselves to big energy/carbon taxes(even know energy is dirt cheap and our utility rates are just a small percentage of our expenses) and they need to put political pressure on the GOVERNMENT TO PREPARE (better than Katrina, one would hope).
That's about as much negativity as I can cram into this post.
Good Luck with your course!
I think there is room for a variety of different approaches. If you want to write something with a different approach, that will work.
Regarding covering peak gas, peak coal, etc. I was explicitly told by the university that I am working for on this project that that is the way they want it. The more I look at it, the more I am convinced that we have two somewhat separate problems - peak oil, and what I would call a natural gas / electric problem. The peak oil folks tend to focus on the peak oil end of the problem, and assume there is little problem on the natural gas / electric side of things. I think that there are probably nearly as bad problems on the natural gas /electric side of things. The timing may be a bit later, but not as much later as most folks assume.
I hadn't looked into the amount of electricity a battery operated car would take. Only about half of our electricity comes from coal, so it would seem like your calculation would overstate the situation somewhat. The only way that a plug-in battery-operated car would really save CO2 is if the electricity source did not generate CO2 - say solar panels on the roof of the garage. I can add a comment about the CO2 issues.
There was a speaker (Bill Reinhart) from Toyota at the Houston ASPO conference who was very negative on plug-in hybrids. His speech isn't posted, so I couldn't go back and look at it. I wanted to check and see why Toyota thought it wasn't the way to go.
"I hadn't looked into the amount of electricity a battery operated car would take. Only about half of our electricity comes from coal, so it would seem like your calculation would overstate the situation somewhat. The only way that a plug-in battery-operated car would really save CO2 is if the electricity source did not generate CO2 - say solar panels on the roof of the garage. I can add a comment about the CO2 issues."
Electric engines are already more efficient and have less CO2 impact even when powered off the US grid. So use of electricity produced by even the dirtiest coal plant still result in less CO2 emission than gasoline.
For example, the all electric Tesla Roadster has a 135 mpg EPA equivalent efficiency when powered off the US grid. Compared to current production vehicles this is a huge gain both in energy efficiency and carbon impact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster
If interested, read the bits about efficiency.
Of course, you could, like some who post here, just build your own electric vehicle, set out solar panels to recharge it, and have done with the grid.
In your "what use would I cut" suggestions.
Some I would like to see are:
1) Recreational
2) Helicopter and private aircraft
3) Construction of useless plastic trinkets.
The first thing I want to see go is discretionary fuel usage - when other less fuel-intensive usage alternatives are available.
Ownership and use of inefficient and unnecessary fuel-consuming "toys" should be discouraged. There are other ways of having fun that don't require the consumption of limited fuel resources.
We simply cannot afford status symbols that consume precious resources.
It pains me to see our neighborhood on trash day. It took a lot of petroleum to make the stuff in the cans, and a heckuva lot of it should have never been made, much less purchased.
There should be a very strong discouragement for planned obsolescence. We simply do not have the energy to keep replacing our infrastructure every time someones' business model calls for another round of sales.
Design and manufacture for maintainability should be encouraged.
I would suggest law stripping all legal protection from ANY product a manufacturer abandons by ceasing support of it - thereby placing abandoned products into the public domain where anyone can support it. Its a shame to throw perfectly good stuff out only because one can no longer purchase consumables or replacement parts for it.
Congress was willing to pass law with teeth to give companies the power to successfully litigate patent and copyright infringement. Congress needs to pass law chipping those teeth off once the company abandons a product, just as I no longer have any property rights to property I abandon.
I have a heckuva hard time justifying helicopters.
The last thing I want to see cut is the workman trying to get a modest amount of fuel to support his job and family.
I am not sure how rationing would work, but it would seem to have to give fuel to a person, not a use. If a person chose to use the fuel for a recreational vehicle that he already owned, that wouldn't be banned, unless there was a separate ban on recreational vehicles. Maybe everyone gets the same amount, but that leaves retirees and the like with far more than they really need.
We use helicopters for a lot of things - fighting forest fires, transporting injured people to hospitals, transporting workers to oil rigs, traffic surveillance. It would be hard to ban everything, but quotas could be handed out appropriately.
The problem with removing legal protection for manufacturers is now everything is made offshore. I'm not sure if today's real manufacturers would care.
It would be nice for everyone to get what they need, but if there is a big cut-back in imports, this could be hard to achieve.
I am not sure how rationing would work
Rationing has been tried a certain number of times, and is known to lead to general inefficiency, through extended queueing, civil unrest, etc. : it definitely is a thing of the past, unless production totally disappears, which is difficult to believe in an oil-producing country.
It is much easier to let prices rise, until people start saving gasoline. Talking about rationing makes the paragraph very dated.
You may keep in mind that the US can stand a doubling of gasoline price, which would still make it cheaper than in other parts of the OECD.
If the USA chose to lower the amount of oil it imported by just 10% each year it would make oil more affordable in poorer countries of the world. Rationing of oil supplies isn't favored by affluent people like you because you want to be able to burn as much fuel as you like in spite of the detrimental impact it has on the rest of the world. Seeing that the 10 fold increase in the price of oil over the past decade has resulted in an increase in oil use I don't see how even higher prices would change the habits of Americans. Higher prices have simply driven African farmers out of business and America's working poor into the unemployment line.
The only way that a plug-in battery-operated car would really save CO2 is if the electricity source did not generate CO2
This is coming up, it is called CCS for CO2 Capture and Sequestration. EIA/DOE is spending more budget on it, and you can expect all new coal power plants will be fitted as of 2015-2020, approximately the date when oil gets scarcer.
The evolution will be first the Hybrid Vehicle (HV), already on the market, then the Plug-in Hybrid Vehicle, coming soon, then the Electric Vehicle. You could also read the V2G articles. The Tesla is a fun example, because of its incredible performances, but the Electric Vehicle will be more ordinary, just everywhere.
You missed the news.
The GWB Administration pulled the plug on the first demo CCS plant, scheduled for Illinois, last week.
So scratch that possibility for a long time. Restarting a dead project is not simple or easy, even if it is economic & practical (GWB's Secty. of Energy thinks not).
OTOH, Urban Rail is so dramatically efficient that CO2 will surely fall, regardless of fuel source.
Alan
So scratch that possibility for a long time.
FutureGen was scrapped, but larger budgets have been attributed to CCS efforts in several parts of the country through EIA/DOE; please refer to your country's information :). Also, a number of CCS projects are being tested right now, mostly in OECD ; please read.
Maybe you should read about Weyburn, which has been in activity for the past 8 years.
CCS definitely is the solution to a carbon intensive world.
Edit :
DOE awards three carbon sequestration projects
Quote :
DOE plans to invest US$197 million over 10 years, subject to annual appropriations from Congress, for the projects, whose estimated value including partnership cost share is US$318 million. The projects are the first of several sequestration demonstration projects planned through DOE's Regional Carbon Sequestration Partnerships.
The formations to be tested during this third phase of the regional partnerships program are recognized as the most promising of the geologic basins in the U.S. Collectively, these formations have the potential to store more than one hundred years of CO2 emissions from all major point sources in North America.
Deputy Secretary of Energy Clay Sell said, "Coal is vitally important to America's energy security and this technology will help enable our nation, and future generations, to use this abundant resource more efficiently and without emitting greenhouse gas emissions."
The projects include participation from 27 U.S. states and the Canadian provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. The participants will demonstrate the entire CO2 injection process--pre-injection characterization, injection process monitoring, and post-injection monitoring--at large volumes to determine the ability of different geologic settings to permanently store CO2.
Unquote.
I found the food calorie approach interesting. That the average person uses 10-20 times the energy equivalent of the food they eat a good way to show the scale of the problem. It also shows the futility of using food for fuel as a way of powering our economy. Having said that I still believe biodiesel and surplus biomass can have a positive impact in certain parts of the world such as the Great Plains.
I did't hear/read the speech by the Toyota representative, but I have my own theory as to why he would think this way.
I would first say that I think there is a role for electric cars to play in the overall transportation system, as long as we're not requiring them to be as big as, or to travel as fast or as far as the cars we are currently using (eg GEM car). There are many situatons for which this might be true.
At some point, adding more batteries defeats the purpose because there is too much added weight to carry all the batteries around. The limit of marginal utility has been passed.
A definition: a plug-in hybrid adds batteries to increase the range of current hybrids.
Toyota has probably determined that adding batteries to an already fairly heavy vehicle (above the minimum required to maintain "hybrid" operation), would be adding weight to a vehicle beyond the point which the marginal utility provided by the battery is postitive.
IMO, one would be better off owning two inexpensive small vehicles. An electric one to be used for round trips at low speeds of 20 miles or less, and an ICE based car to be used when longer trips are required. KISS
Must say I agree with many of these conclusions. I think the course needs to include more on the alternatives including non-conventional fossil fuels which I failed to mention in my previous post.
But the other piece is that it takes such a negative view of the alternatives that I would argue it is slanted. Disappointing really. As mentioned somewhere else, electric vehicles and hybrids are a growing part of the solution now. So is wind and, to a lesser degree, solar.
California is a fantastic model for how the larger US economy might begin to weather the peak oil problem.
One final point I agree with. The course does suppose Peak Oil is inevitable. Maybe a little more on the evidence Peak Oil is happening vice the dissenters -- CERA et all.
In all, there does seem to be quite a bit of straw man stuff here.
As an aside, has anyone noticed the price of oil is up nearly $3 since last night? In the news I also noticed OPEC officially stating it would defend a per barrel price of $80.
Interesting times...
About the only thing I agree with Majorian on, is using Barrels of Oil Equivalent (BOE) as an expression of quantities of energies. Maybe it's because I became familiar with energy issues via The Oil Drum and Energy Bulletin, but to me, tons of coal, megajoules or megawatts of electricity, trillions of cubic feet of gas, etc., are essentially meaningless to me insofar as how much energy we are talking about. Maybe also it's because it's a lot easier to visualize a physical, 42-gallon barrel than a megajoule or a trillion cubic feet.
Antoinetta III
Very good round up, I liked the clear facts, plainly and economically stated. Lots of material, and good questions at the end.
I also had my doubts about how the the comparison to food, or the illustrations with food, are handled - Many women and *dieters* are familiar with calories, but to others this measure is meaningless (though I know they appear on food packages in the US. Generally *few* calories is considered good?). Also, the comparison to food, and relations to food, are used in different ways: energy is measured in calories, oil is used to produce food, food provides energy for humans to do work, etc. - all this is perhaps a bit complicated. My thought was that the various relationships would better be described and exemplified through the use of a standard measure of energy, as suggested here by majorian. That, of course, would be the scientific way to go: some yardstick measures the cream bun, a full gas tank in a car, a bag of fertilizer. For high school teaching, it would in a sense be mandatory to go that route, because the aim is eventual grasp of core concepts and ‘science’. I realize that college or general public ppl in the US, as well as efforts that are limited in scope, type, hoped impact, etc. are another matter, and one always wants to rely on intuitions, or known facts, or comprehensible matters, etc., but that approach can lead one astray, as well, because at a certain point, there are unresolved, unexplainable issues, questions. ..Or one is forced to enter long complicated explanations or revise the approach or say that this is just a sort of vague introduction - and the audience generally does not appreciate this at all.
I come from a different culture - and that counts. So what do I know. I guess the main point is to get ppl thinking.
Hello again,
#2/#11: GDP and Oil. Might be worth briefly noting that in the '73 and 80's oil crises/recessions the drop in oil mirrored the drop in GDP. As goeth the oil, so goeth the economy.
Cheers
One point of note. On the tail end of the oil crises oil consumption fell while GDP grew. Added efficiency resulted in the gains.
After the emergency. Sure. Not at the time of or during. Greater efficiency would naturally lead to greater profit/economic return... in time. And assuming the downturn is only that, and not something far more wrenching.
The point stands.
Cheers
I discuss various alternatives including battery-operated cars, hydrogen, and conservation.
I think that electrified rail is misplaced under conservation and vastly understated (and misstated) with a single line Another is electrified rail transportation, in areas where population density justifies the use of rail transportation
A few VERY real world examples.
In 1970, 4% of Washington DC commuters used the bus to get to work. Today, over 40% use public transit, with most of them using DC Metro (at an imputed 800 pax-mpg of electricity).
IMO, that is a clear substitution of electricity (not much) for (with TOD effects) 90,000 to 100,000 barrels/day. Add another 20 to 25,000 b/day if the Tysons Corner-Dulles extension is built.
Electrifying US freight railroads without ANY transfer from trucks (a heavy shift is already underway) and over 200,000 b/day are switched from oil to electricity. Transfer freight from heavy trucks to electrified railroads and over 2 million b/day at the ratio of 17 to 20 BTUs of diesel for 1 BTU of electricity !
Another 2 million b/day are well within reach with Urban Rail projects already "scoped out" when oil was cheap. Add additional possibilities as the world changes.
The USA, in just twenty years (1950-1970) managed to trash ALL the prime commercial property (downtowns) and devastate many well built established neighborhoods with a combination of gov't policies (VA loans, freeways, desegregation, etc.) We can do the same in less time in an emergency.
Miami has funded plans (25 years at current rates) where 90% of the population will be within 3 miles of an elevated "subway" station, half within 2 miles (before any TOD effects). If/when this is built, with increased bicycle facilities, and constrained oil, how much could Miami reduce their oil use ? In an oil emergency, how much oil would be required to keep Miami going ?
How much oil would be substituted with electricity if a 3 or 4 track subway underneath Wilshire Blvd, with a streetcar on top, going to UCLA and then to Santa Monica ? 100,000 barrels/day is within reason.
Electrified inter-city railroads plus Urban Rail plus TOD plus bicycles plus walking create a parallel Non-Oil Transportation SYSTEM. A system that has elasticity of supply (capacity can be expanded with relative ease) when the Oil Transportation System is stressed.
This is clearly the strategy of France. Only 5 towns of 100,000 population or more do not have tram or plans for one.
I have focused on Mulhouse France, Population 112,000 in a remote corner of France (where Switzerland, Germany & France meet). First tram line in 2006, two more planned by 2012. Overall 1,500 km of new tram lines planned in France (~1/6th USA population),
I take issue with your statement "electrified rail transportation, in areas where population density justifies the use of rail transportation".
Electrified rail typical creates it's own density. A perfect microcosm is when DC wanted to develop a semi-blighted area. They just added a station (New York Avenue) to the 25+ year old Red Line. A half dozen high rise structures immediately (within 2 years) broke ground within walking distance of the new station.
Was there density to justify a station on New York Avenue ? Absolutely NOT ! That is why one was not built there originally. But build Urban Rail, and TOD appears.
This is TOD with cheap oil. How much more will TOD expand with $100+ oil (say $250/barrel) ? Where, of course, T for TOD is available.
And the threshold of density to build trams in small French towns is really quite reasonable. Cows can be seen to be grazing and vineyards are visible from tram windows in some of the photos I have seen (single family houses in the foreground).
And both Denmark and The Netherlands average almost 1,000 km/yr/capita bicycling (data from cheap oil years). What would be the impact if US bicycling rose to 1/2 or 1/3rd those rates ? 200 to 300 miles average/person in the USA ? Changes in shopping and commuting and living arrangements ? And obesity (see actuarial tables) ?
In summary, you overlook and underestimate the potential of Non-Oil Transportation. I would be glad to work with you on a suitable addendum
Best Hopes for Getting People to Understand that there *IS* a Non-Oil (liquid fuels) alternative,
Alan
Fantastic! Can you tell me where to get sources for these figures? 2 mbpd would be staggering and I seriously hope we can bring this sort of thing online soon. Not with Bush in any case...
In this case I assumed only a 50% transfer from truck ton-miles to rail in a decade.
http://www.aspo-usa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&It...
Also read the comments.
Best Hopes,
Alan
Thanks for this! I've seen some amazing stuff on the ASPO site so this is no surprise.
Best wishes!
Rob
Time frames
Assume "Maximum Commercial Urgency" (same level of effort as used today to expand tar sands production).
Electrify (90+% of ton-miles) and expand railroad capacity by roughly double 2005 - eight to nine years, roughly $350 billion (details on request).
Encourage transfer to rail from truck by tolling interstate and US highways (set tolls at 90% of all maintenance costs, fair share for 18 wheel trucks). With higher oil costs, and improved rail service (100 mph rail express on selected routes), 80% shift seems doable in 12 years.
Oil savings over 2 million b/day.
Build out "on-the-shelf" Urban Rail Projects
http://www.lightrailnow.org/features/f_lrt_2007-04a.htm
Only projects that could start physical construction in 12 to 36 months were included on list. Time to complete 1.5 to 5 years (some 6 & 7 year projects possible if not at maximum commercial urgency. $135 billion to $175 billion. Oil savings higher than 500,000 b/day (1 million b/day possible).
Phases II, III & IV (Phase IV being defined as equalivent to French plans for France in 2020) could save millions more b/day with associated TOD.
With "Maximum Commercial Urgency" Phase IV could be finished in twenty years (or less). See USA building subways in the largest cities and streetcar lines in 500 cities & towns in just twenty years (with *FAR* more limited resources) 1897-1916 and the trashing of established neighborhoods & downtowns via Suburbia in twenty years (1950-1970).
Best Hopes for not ignoring Historical Experience,
Alan
This is not "conservation" but the creation of a Non-Oil Transportation System (almost from scratch).
I agree that in the right situation, electrified trains can be a solution. I used to ride the "Elevated" train in Chicago a lot, when I lived there. I have a daughter in Boston who rides the light rail, which I believe is electrified.
I think intercity electrified rail may make sense, if we need to scale back on air traffic. It would not be any easy change, though. We would need a system of tracks somewhat similar to the interstate highway system, owned and maintained by the government. I don't think the current track system would work. The new track system would be a huge expense, by itself. I doubt that we could do it, plus the cost of all of the trains, in a lower-carbon world. The US government is not in a position where it could borrow the huge amount of money needed for a project of this type.
In a city like Atlanta, light rail to replace one of the lanes on the interstates might make sense, if it could be sold to the public. I understand that trains have quite different "grade" requirements than roads, and the roads may be too steep for trains, however. With all lanes currently jammed with traffic, this doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon.
Trying to buy up property with houses on it, and run rail lines through built-up areas seems unlikely to be a solution in very many areas. Here in Atlanta, the business districts are so spread out that there is little central place for the trains to go to. You talk about areas getting more built up in the future, but I think we need to think about moving together into
currently-built infrastructure.
Electrifying current trains that are not electrified is a smaller part of the problem. It seems like this could be done. Someone sent me an e-mail saying
Multiple Points.
I agree that in the right situation, electrified trains can be a solution.
I would substitute "Most urban situations", perhaps supplemented with electric trolley buses as feeders. Yes, the reach is THAT broad. US villages of 25,000 once had streetcars. The French have installed trams in smaller and smaller towns, and 100,000 seems to be the cut-off now BUT I am trying to get better info on future plans. There are hints of a floor of 75,000 or 80,000 population.
I think intercity electrified rail may make sense, if we need to scale back on air traffic.
For once, I am on the other side. I assign zero growth in long distance inter-city passenger travel (just commuter (>100 miles) regional (100 to 250 miles) seems to be the market to expand passenger rail first into. Car not air is the mode used today for those city-pairs.
I do NOT disagree that this mode could grow post-Peak Oil, but superAmtrak is the highest fruit on the tree,
Inter-city freight is the low hanging fruit.
We would need a system of tracks somewhat similar to the interstate highway system, owned and maintained by the government. I don't think the current track system would work.
CSX Railroad does. They responded to a GWB RFP for plans to reduce congestion on long distance travel. 19 proposals for more interstates and CSX.
Their plan, 1,200 miles from Washington DC to Miami. Entirely grade separated. Two freight tracks (60 to 70 mph) for regular freight. One track (two tracks DC to Richmond) for passenger service and express freight (low & medium density) at 110 mph (100 mph in some built-up areas). 30' between tracks to allow maintenance on oen track not to affect the other tracks. Cost $20 to $25 billion. "Slivers" of new ROW required to make wider radius curves in spots. (Think 5' to 10' out of a farmer's field) but other wise existing ROW.
Official Report (pdf)
secorridor.fra.dot.gov/docs/csx/CSX_CFP.pdf
Brief Summary
http://www.floridabullettrain.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=...
In a city like Atlanta, light rail to replace one of the lanes on the interstates might make sense, if it could be sold to the public. I understand that trains have quite different "grade" requirements than roads, and the roads may be too steep for trains, however.
The grade depends upon the axles driven. An all axle driven streetcar can handle a 10% grade going up (record was 16.x% grade in Pittsburgh, video was INCREDIBLE, tough to walk up that grade) but only 6% grade going down is maximum safe grade for proper braking.
Freight trains only have locomotive axles driven, and get unhappy with much more than 1% grade.
I generally oppose putting Urban Rail in the middle of limited access highways because people are repelled by auto sewers and it hurts ridership (post-Peak Oil this may be less of an issue). Atlanta was a RR hub and has old ROWS around. I once3 saw a fantasy system using those, I will see if I can find it.
The French routinely take city streets (not freeways) and do one of three things.
1) Remove it from auto use and seed it in grass with tram rails (quite pretty. we do this in New Orleans as well).
2) Mixed use but put paving blocks or rough concrete in tram lane (cars can use if roads are packed but uncomfortable ride keeps them out except during rush hour).
3) Mixed use with smooth surface. In New Orleans we do this in the downtown, right next to 51 story One Shell Square. Streetcars mixing with rubber tire traffic.
A lane devoted to Urban Rail can carry ten+ times the people that an auto/SUV lane can carry. If there are not enough lanes, then devote the lanes to the highest volume (and non-oil) mode.
More later (phone call)
Alan
For Atlanta, Official MARTA planning (hi res pdf available at link)
http://www.itsmarta.com/newsroom/planstudy.htm
And an Advocacy Group (hi res pdf also available)
http://www.cfpt.org/pages/wctv
I think intercity electrified rail may make sense, if we need to scale back on air traffic. It would not be any easy change, though.
You should go all the way with his idea : intercity rail is the solution up to 600 miles distance, where total travel time is shorter by train than by plane, example :
- Paris-London, city to city by train : 2h15
- Paris-London, city to city including commute from/to airports : 3h00
Modern trains are high speed now, allowing routinely 200 mph ; do not look to the US for rail system, it is where Europe was in the 60s. At least three manufacturers sell such trains :
- Alstom "AGV"
- Siemens
- Bombardier
Europe is much more population intensive than the US, meaning finding a way through inhabited lands is much more difficult ; even worse in Japan, which also boasts the "Shinkansen". It will be a breeze in the US.
The only reason why train is under-developed in the US is : it is deliberate.
I oppose High Speed Rail for the foreseeable future (20+ years).
Unlike semi-HSR (say 110 mph, 175 kph) the HSR tracks cannot be dual use for medium density express freight (fish, fruits and vegetables for example).
They cost significantly more/mile.
The lower density of the USA makes them less economic.
They use MUCH more electricity. (Late at night, but aerodynamic resistance is square of speed from tired memory). A 173 kph trains should use a third as much electricity as a 300 kph train. And since both the 173 kph & 300 kph train must accelerate from zero and slow to zero, and slow to reasonable speeds inside built up areas, the time saving is less than 300 kph vs. 173 kph might lead one to believe.
And today HSR gets only half of the modal share for city pairs 400 to 500 km apart in the EU & Japan.
How many Berliners take the train to Spain or Italy ? Very few.
So, for as long as I will likely live, HSR is an unnecessary luxury for the USA.
Electrify the freight RRs, build MASSIVE amounts of Urban Rail, make our cities and towns bicycle friendly. These more important goals will take ALL the resources that we can muster for decades !
Best Hopes for semi-HSR, electrified railroads, Urban Rail, and bicycles,
Alan
Most people underestimate the amount of people you can move with a simple train/subway.
The yamanote line in tokyo (28 stations) transports more people that the complete NY subway. (ca 400 stations)
All it takes is an incentive to use public transport. In Japan, it is the inability to park your car. There is no such thing as public parking: You cannot park your car (unless you want to pay). So people use public transport, very intensively. 3 US$ gets you 10+ miles. People do not drive to work: that's completely out of the question.