Wed Open Thread (and the XOM boycott)
Posted by Yankee on April 19, 2006 - 5:05pm
Topic: Demand/Consumption
Tags: boycott, exxonmobil, gas prices [list all tags]
Tim Haab answers the question about whether the ExxonMobil boycott will work.
Otherwise, thread away.
http://www.energybulletin.net/1342.html
not because it says anything new but because it seems like a good way to explain the situation to those americans just waking up from their t.v. naps to find gas $3 a gallon sans hurricane (they're grumpy!)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12333796/site/newsweek/
sorry.
"A more controversial concern is the so-called "peak oil" theory: the idea that the world has reached the natural limits of oil exploitation, and that there is little more to be found in the ground whatever the price.
"Although many in the business dismiss the concept, energy planners in several countries are nonetheless beginning to take it into account. "
Exerpted from:
"What is driving oil prices so high?
"Crude oil prices have risen once more to levels above $71 a barrel - a rise of 25% so far in 2006, and a threefold gain over the past three years.
BBC News' credibility is now in negative teritory.
If it is so easy for "Big Oil" to drive the prices up and land huge profits, why did they wait until now to do it?
I mean, they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble if they did it in the late 90's when they were hemorrhaging cash. Or at any other point in the last 50 years for that matter. Were they just being nice by selling to us at a cheaper price than they could have? That was sure kind of them.
I have a hard time thinking a "Big Oil" CEO would say, "You know, we could sell this at $2.50, but we're going to let you have it for 89 cents. What the heck, it's just money."
Just had to get that off my chest.
I wish every American would consider this syllogism to its proper conclusion
That's the wrong question. The questions is:
Why do I care about the gas price being this high?
And the answer is:
I care because I take full responsibilty for making the choice to live a life almost completely dependant on the availability of cheap gas. I have greatly enjoyed the convenience and luxury this choice has afforded me in the past but now that it is becoming less viable I am free to choose not to live this lifestyle.
Unfortunately the pervasive mindset of the average American is that:
"The American way of life is non-negotiable" - George Bush Senior 1992
Yes, I would love if my fellow citizens kept up on these issues, and therefore could not be so easily fooled, but let's be realistic. With the volume of disinformation, and the general lack of information, what else should be expected?
How many of us who are now aware of the energy depletion issues got here from a series of random discoveries? One cannot be an expert in all fields - I might be a genius in some particular technical area (not saying I am), but never happened to look into PO. Better to ask why hasn't my society been informing of these problems for years?
Also, it would be quite fair for Russia to change its own regulations and kick BP out. Why are acquisitions by UK firms acceptable in Russia but not vice versa.
Power shortage risks 'overplayed'
Time to take going off grid seriously.
My electric bill is just $15/mo, it's not like I'm a hog.
First off, the value of boycotts (when there is any at all) is not the real economic pressure brought to bear, but rather the psychological pressure and the attendant bad publicity. An entity being boycotted is seen by the public as having a 'problem', and that problem will not go away until the boycott ends. So, a boycott DOES get attention regardless of its real economic impact. Still, people doing the boycotting soon get bored with it, so boycotts tend to fizzle out on their own accord. Boycotts can serve a purpose but don't expect too much from them. Remember, just because there is a real energy crisis doesn't preclude the possiblity of people gaming the system and engaging in unfair, and possibly illegal, practices.
However, of far more immediate importance is the question of impending military action against Iran. If indeed the Bush regime is serious about attacking Iran, as many knowlegeable people seem to think, then what we have here is a potential global crisis that dwarfs Peak Oil and all others.
Yet, you will notice that very few people in Congress are voicing any opposition to 'taking care of Iran'. Now why is it that something that could quite literally trigger WW III goes undebated in Congress?
Well, for starters, there's the mid-term elections in November, and the Democrats want to get back in the driver's seat real bad. They can smell it.
At the same time we have to recognize what is the main driving force for attacking Iran. It is an unholy alliance between neocons, fundamentalist Christians, and the more Zionist elements of the Jewish pro-Israel lobby in the US, whose strongest embodiment is the extremely powerful AIPAC. Woe be it to any congressman up for re-election who crosses the AIPAC. So, that, in my estimation, is why Congress is largely silent about Iran. They are afraid of the Jewish lobby.... plain and simple.
I don't know when the American people are going to wake up to the fact that our vital interests and those of Israel are not the same. The US is Israel's sole ally and the guarantor of its very existence (to the tune of over $3 billion per year), whereas Israel is no ally of the US and would sell the US down the river if there were something to be gained. As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger, "What you mean we, pale-face?"
So, gentlemen, there you have it why there is little noise about Iran in the US Congress. We are slouching toward chaos simply because ambitious politicians don't want to jeopordize their re-election chances by crossing the Zionist Israeli lobby. And if you think this is over the top, then please give me examples of important congressman and senators who has criticized Israel during the last year. I don't think you will find any.
The damage is done. After all, they know that we can flip any instant. We have our own track record for them to see. And these people have a LONG memory!
Consider Israel and Germany.
Israel has not spent the last sixty years getting even with Germany.
Israel has spent the last sixty years getting even with the Arabs.
the funniest thing. We can get FOX News in the UK.
Timed perfectly for this thread, a senator/actress/model/whatever from Florida was whingeing about gas prices. He said the answer is to let Walmart sell gas at below cost, cos the little guys (one pump gas stations) are gouging and the oil companies (not little guys , shurly shum mishtake)are also gouging...
Apparently the little guys are protected against predatory pricing from Walmart and the likes by an obscure , 20 year old law against selling below cost. He wants it repealed.
Looks like its going to cost more to get to the golf course... Ha Ha
Kunstler is right: getting to the shops in Florida is going to be like the Bataan Death March
What is it with you guys, do you want it for free?
We are close to £5 per gallon here in the UK and it will be over that by the time school is out in June / July.
Its getting very , very silly.
Maybe , just maybe, some good will come of this:
Wear Sweaters (in winter...except for the above silly person: he can wear two in a Floridian Summer)
Turn down the AC
Drive less
Combine trips
Cut your family's engine capacity
Eco drive (requires a brain, cuts your fuel usage by 10%)
Hey Ho.
"The world is our shoemaker, automaker, baker, gardener, and we've lost manufacturing. The chickens come home to roost when those countries and industries stop lending us money to live a lifestyle we didn't earn through traditional American hard work."
Following are my (ELP) suggestions for a post-peak US:
Economize--try to reduce your spending to 50% of current income. Assume that you just got a 50% pay cut. What actions would you then take?
Localize--try to reduce the distance between home and work to as close to zero as possible. Assume that gasoline costs about the same as Norway, $7 per gallon or more. What actions would you then take?
Produce--look into becoming or affiliating yourself with a net food producer or net energy producer. Or at least try to work with a company that provides basic needs, instead of "wants." Today, the majority of Americans live off the discretionary income of other Americans. Assume that US discretionary income drops by 50%. What industries would you want to be in?
All through history famine and dwindling food supplies have led to mass migration, wars and pestilence, but who knows, this time it might be different and the great march to a global economy will continue without missing a step.
But I wouldn't count on it on the basis of the latest research quoted by Lester Brown, head of the Earth Policy Institute, in his new book, Outgrowing the Earth. I would strongly recommend all investors, politicians and followers of Dr Pangloss to read and digest the message in this book.
Brown points out that a one degree Celsius rise in temperature leads to a 10pc decline in wheat, rice and corn yields. Which brings us to the subject of global warming. While we might like to luxuriate in the benefits of globalisation, the nasty fact is that increased trade and wealth have a dark side, which is leading to profound and unsettling climate changes.
Over the past three decades average temperatures have risen by 0.7 degrees Celsius and a growing number of scientists argue that we might have passed a point after which the rise in temperature accelerates. The omens are not good: in four of the past six years the world has witnessed the warmest temperatures since records began. As a result, the number of global catastrophes is increasing and last year set a record for the number of lives lost due to environmental disasters.
The world's agricultural system is beginning to warp and this might one day wreck the global trading mechanism. Since 1984 grain production has failed to keep pace with population growth. In fact, grain production has been falling. In 1984 it peaked at 339kgs per person but has since fallen to 308kgs. The place where this decline will be felt most is China.
Since 1998 China's grain production has fallen off a cliff. For years the country was able to meet the shortfall by drawing down its massive reserves. Now the reserves are running dangerously low, China has turned to buying on the open market.
In 2004 China imported 8m tonnes of wheat but Brown argues that within the next year or two it will need to import between 30m to 50m tonnes a year as well as record amounts of rice and corn. If you travel to the Far East during the hot dry summer months you'll get an idea of why. China is losing its top soil in giant dust storms that are dumping earth on cities like Seoul in neighbouring South Korea. The amount of land fit for cultivation is shrinking.
In addition, Brown points out that when densely populated countries go through an economic growth spurt, crop production plummets. We have already seen this pattern in Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. Japan now imports 70pc of the grain it needs. As China is following the same pattern of development it is likely to do the same. This will place a strain on the world's ability to supply it with food because the likely demand will outstrip the production of leading grain producers such as Canada, Australia and Argentina.
I drive to church, 5 mile round trip, I drive few if anywhere else.
In 2 months when I am in the colorado summer, I will be able to walk to most everywhere. I still won't have ac, but I hope to have a working swamp cooler by then and be able to cool the same way I do here. Pull it in at night, close it in, in the day. But I will be repairing a house so nothing is a given.
I know several folks that live nearby that don't have ac.
our houses were built to be air conditioned, we need to build them the old ways again, high ceilings and lots of cool porches.
Most people don't have cars here either, and the buses have no AC :-)
3 meter and higher ceilings are common, as are large trees on the streets. Windows above the doors for ventlation. Whole house fans were added to homes built after 1910.
We rarely get below freezing (0 C, 32 F) so heating is not so important.
Some suffering if air conditioing was reduced.
I would have thought that Paraguay would have VERY cheap electricity from Itapu though.
Remember the huge heat wave in France a couple of summers ago? The daily temps were, by Texas standards, moderate. Yet we get summers like that all the time, but for them it was an anomoly.
And some homes and buildings here are from before A/C, but the more recent additions all have it. For example, at my office if the AC goes out it quickly becomes bad - huge windows that don't open and only two doors for the entire building that lead to the outside, and they are on the ground floor. 200 people and office equipment inside and it gets hot, fast, without AC.
One of the reasons so many died was that people were afraid to open their windows. Due to crime.
You got that 100% right about the sissy city people. They know from nothing. True in the 1930s and still true.
During my years of college teaching I noticed the farm kids were often my best students--not because they were smarter, but because they knew about getting up at 4 a.m. to milk the cows and then working hard until sundown when work had to be done. They never thought learning would come easy. Farm kids still understand work, still know how to do things and fix things. Sad thing is, almost none of them want to farm anymore, because they know how hard the work is and that two years out of three you lose money. Especially this is true of young women who have been driving tractors etc. since age 11 or younger: None of them would even think of dating or marrying a farmer.
Now the very idea seems ridiculous. You'd be mugged...or worse.
Having lived near Corpus about 40 yrs ago, we didn't have air conditioning. we opened the windows, and the gulf breeze went through the house. right out the screen door on the front porch.
Boy how i miss those days. but the house was built in 1910. yes we sweat, drank lots of fluids, used fans when there was no breeze, stayed in the shade, etc.
today the houses are built to be air conditioned, there is no "flow design" for a breeze through the house. or to let the hot air escape, like a "transom" over the doors.
mold will set in and get the better of ya if airconditioning isn't available.
The biggest problem I see for Colo. in the post-oil age is the water supply. Given that we don't know the long-term effects of climate change, water could/will be a big problem for the semi-arid West. Wherever you will be in Colo. make sure you have a dependable water supply. Oh well, after the economic collapse maybe lots of people will leave and there'll be enough water left for the survivors. :)
My first winter I noticed On very cold days all the people would be out on the streets. Couldn't figure it out. I mean throngs out everywhere on the coldest days.
It was finally explained to me. The europeans kept their heat turned down so low that it was warmer to bundle up and go out, shopping, library, museums--anywhere was warmer than home. They were very good natured and humorous about it but was just the best way to handle the cold.
I was amazed. I had been just turning up the heat.
end o season I got my gas bill.(!)
Next winter on cold days I was bundled up mingling with those stalwart europeans.
These are not the oil barrels you want. Nothing to see here! Move along! Move along!