DrumBeat: February 10, 2007

Peak Oil Passnotes: Russian About Going Nowhere

If we ever needed reminding of the problem of making forecasts about crude oil and products we only need think of three tiny letters, I, E and A. The International Energy Agency (IEA), so frowned upon in 2004 and 2005 for failing to foresee the sharp rise in demand, has this week decided that some of its previous predictions were in fact erroneous.

The IEA has decided that non-OPEC output will in fact be some 1.1 million barrels short of what it was previously predicting in 2007. That is a 50% reduction from its previous 2.2 million barrel increase. Now, you might think this is not such a big deal being that we consume around 84.5 million barrels per day. But the IEA only made this forecast last July. It is not like the IEA do not have access to reams of information most mere mortals would love to get their hands on, they have loads of it.

But in 2005 they also predicted a near 2 million barrel increase in non-OPEC output. Then over the course of the year they consistently revised the figure, downwards of course. By the end of 2005 they had decided that rather than 2 million barrels extra per day there was in fact, well, no barrels extra per day.

Americas oil slide may raise US Mideast dependence

Steep oil field decline rates in Mexico and Venezuela and delays and outages in offshore US and Canadian areas should lower output from the region this year, countering earlier expectations of a rise.


Leading Climate Change and Energy Experts Map Out Greenhouse Gas Reduction Plan For Canada


Pelosi: Mandatory Greenhouse Gas Emissions Cuts Needed

The United States cannot effectively tackle global warming without enacting mandatory restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said today.


America goes to the top of renewable energy league

The United States has extended its lead as the most attractive location in which to invest in renewable energy projects.

The country’s increasing desirability is directly linked to a conviction among investors that politicians are now firmly in support of renewable energy.


Gazprom forms power firm with russian coal miner

OAO Gazprom, the world's biggest natural-gas producer, will become Russia's largest coal miner once it completes a deal to pool assets with OAO Siberian Coal Energy Co., also known as SUEK.


Oil and gas companies scramble to develop fuel cells

Gas and oil suppliers, facing competition from electric utilities over household heating systems, are stepping up development of fuel cells.


Nigeria's Oil Workers Rule Out Immediate Strike Action

Nigeria's oil workers, threatened by a recent spate of kidnappings and killings, have ruled out immediate strike action after a meeting with President Olusegun Obasanjo.


Living in a state of exponential delusion

Very soon we are going to have to face up to the very short life of globalisation. The inevitable decline in oil production will bring with it restricted mobility, and a far more localised way of living. Work, schools, social services, medical care will all need to be close to where we live. Sustainable neighbourhoods are going to need to be connected with good, reliable public transport. We need to begin planning at every level of government, in every sector of the economy, in every town and in every village for this. It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when.


The conspiracy Of Silence On Climate Change - a review of Monbiot's Heat

One of the most important points that comes out of the book is that, no one has seriously researched into the question of the extent of renewables any grid can accomodate. Can we have a 50% or a 80% or even a 100 % renewably powered grid? Another good feature of the book is that it takes cognizance of the growing literature on 'peak oil' unlike most books on climate change. However I find that the author does not look into the issue of availability of resources (mainly oil, gas, coal, steel etc and their dependence on each other) as critically as one would hope.


From Greener Production to Carbon Trading: Sustainable Energy Careers

Energy is big right now. The most important fuel of the last century or so--oil--is being used up; the only question is how soon it will be gone. The energy supply may be the limiting factor on how many people can live at a high standard--especially if they consume energy at the prodigious pace Americans do--and the standard of living of billions of people is growing fast.

So the world needs new, cleaner energy sources, and the only way to find them--and to make the exploitation of known clean sources cost-effective--is scientific research. It seems obvious, then, that the world needs more good energy researchers.


At long last, the soft underbelly is revealed

In the past two months, Iran has been asking for payments for oil revenues and other exports in euros, not dollars. It is now believed to be conducting much of its foreign exchange transactions in euros or United Arab Emirates dirhams. The Government has also been reported to have been shifting its foreign-held assets out of dollars into euros.


Qatar ‘to consider selling gas in euros’

QATAR, the world’s largest shipper of natural gas, will consider selling gas in euros, instead of dollars, HE the Finance Minister Yousef Hussain Kamal said, reducing global demand for the US currency.


Is Gates Stirring Up Trouble With Iran To Boost Oil Prices?

Defense Chief Robert Gates knows well what the effect of escalating rhetoric against a major oil-producing nation like Iran can have on the price of oil. After he gave up his CIA chiefdom, Gates spent part of his time engaged in an event in 2005 called 'Oil Shockwave'.


Ethanol may fuel inflation

Forget about oil as the inflation bogeyman we should fear the most. The surging price of corn is the latest threat to American wallets, and where it hits them might go beyond the supermarket.


‘Leading the Way to New Food System,’ PASA Blasts Corporate Farming

In his 30-minute speech that was sprinkled with sarcasm and strong language, Kunstler attacked corporate farms, blaming them for creating a “cheese doodle agriculture economy.” He was also skeptical of alternative energy, stating there is not enough technology available to replace oil and that the country will shut down as a result. “We’re not going to be able to run Walt Disney, Wal-Mart and the interstate highway system,” he said.


Cox woos conservatives by promising spending cuts

In response to a question regarding peak oil, Iraq should use the money to diversify its resources, said Cox, who ran for the Republican nomination in for Illinois's 10th Congressional District in 2000 and for U.S. Senate in 2002.

"I'm not an oil man," said Cox, who grew up in Chicago, Ill. "I don't see us totally relying on oil forever."

Instead, Cox advocated a diversification of energy resources within the United States. His plan would include constructing nuclear power plants, creating more wind, solar and bio-diesel energy.


Venezuela Tries to Attract More Oil Rigs, Halt Departures

Faced with a declining rig fleet in a tight global market for oil services, Venezuela is preparing a fresh licensing round to attract new drilling equipment and renew contracts for those on the ground, industry executives say.

But Petroleos de Venezuela S.A. (PVZ.YY) is increasingly slow about paying its contractors and insists on paying in a local currency that is difficult to convert into dollars, dampening interest in projects with the state oil firm.


Water Rights for Sale in Alberta

The Athabasca River, running north from the Fort MacMurray area, has dropped several metres in just the short time that the tarsands operations have begun. If this five fold expansion happens-- or even if the current pace remains-- the agricultural farmers, never mind the nations who actually own the water or the marine life who live in it, will lose out completely. As this is only just beginning it is highly notable that the Athabasca River was once clear, yet the people who live along it now consider it poison.


Canadian Oil Industry Fears Possible Tax Increase, Enviro Controls

Canada's oil companies are preparing themselves for possible tax increases and environmental controls from a Conservative government under pressure to enforce tougher policies on the industry, according to a letter obtained by the Toronto Globe and Mail.


Occidental sees Elk Hills production resuming soon

The company declared force majeure on oil and gas supplies from the field after a natural gas pipeline ruptured and burst into flames on Tuesday, injuring four people.


Is Oil's Ride Almost Over?

Big oil companies are scrambling to keep their reserves up. Land wells are showing signs of depletion. And the recent surge in offshore drilling could be oil's final frontier.


$70 Oil: A Spill Or A Skirmish Away


Thailand: Low down on ethanol

"We will use price incentives to expand the market and the number of gasohol petrol stations. I am confident that we will have three million litres per day by year's end or at the beginning of 2008. We may have enough to export or even go for E20," explained Pornchai.


Australia: Congestion — there could be a price to pay

Congestion charges in central districts, like those levied in London, or that use electronic tolling, would be politically acceptable only if the revenue was channelled into public transport.


Energy-efficient buildings 'need of the hour'

Abu Dhabi: Residential and commercial buildings in the Gulf currently consume 45 per cent of the energy produced in the region, demanding timely guidelines for sustainable buildings to avert a future energy crisis, said an official at the Emirates Green Building Council (Emirates GBC).


No single solution to energy crisis

You fall into the old trap if you pick one thing -- "Tastes great! Less filling!" For Democrats, traditionally, the one thing is increasing CAFE standards. For Republicans, the one thing is drilling. And we say, "No, it's four things." What we really want is a commitment to give a little bit on some of the individual interest items, in return for getting the whole package. We want the drillers to accept tighter controls on drilling. But the technology is good, and we think that people have to recognize that drilling on the Outer Continental Shelf is safe. Ethanol is wonderful, but it's not the whole answer.


Delmarva Power hopes to help this region's energy future

At Delmarva Power, we're unveiling a new proposal to help our customers deal with rising energy prices driven by national and international trends that have driven up the cost of coal, oil, and natural gas -- the primary fuels used to generate electricity. The proposal builds on many of the ideas that have been around since the 1970s with one very important twist: it uses the latest technology to make those ideas even more effective.

That new technology takes the form of a device often referred to as a "smart meter."


Bold leadership needed to avert environmental disaster

Meanwhile, Matthew Simmons, chairman of Simmons & Co. International in Houston, a close friend of President Bush and a towering figure in the world of petroleum exploration and development, said that the world has now reached peak oil. Modern industrial civilization has been built upon cheap, abundant, highly concentrated liquid petroleum. Once on the downhill slope of the peak oil bell curve, world petroleum production can be expected to decline 2 percent to 3 percent annually.


Oil companies discuss energy challenges

With dwindling oil supplies, pollution concerns and the ever-present threat of gas prices soaring again, talk of new and better ways to fuel our cars, heat and cool our homes, and power our factories has never been greater. What's more, the conversation is emanating increasingly from a source that's been surprisingly quiet until recently — the oil companies themselves.


Oil prices briefly top $60 a barrel

On Friday, National Nigeria Petroleum Corp. said it will cut crude loading volumes for February and declared a “force majeure” on cargoes, according to Dow Jones Newswires.


BP stockholders request freeze on CEO benefits

Two large BP PLC stockholders asked an Alaska court on Friday to freeze millions in retirement benefits for outgoing chief executive John Browne, saying he does not deserve compensation in light of recent crises at the oil giant’s facilities in Texas and Alaska.


U.S. gov't moves to lower tailpipe pollution

U.S. environmental regulators issued new standards on Friday to reduce the amount of cancer-causing emissions from gasoline, vehicles operating in cold weather and portable gas cans.


Group names top 10 polluting refineries


Hybrids in, bi-fuels out in Arizona

hree models of small hybrid cars will be permitted to use car pool lanes on area freeways under an experiment that also will ban some alternative-fuel vehicles that can now use the special lanes.


Carmakers to Calif. attorney general: drop suit

Six major automakers told new California Attorney General Jerry Brown that their lawyers were ready to discuss improving vehicle fuel efficiency but that he should dismiss the state's greenhouse gas damage suit.


Soy growers ask higher U.S. support, biodiesel aid

Congress should increase soybean subsidies and provide a biodiesel incentive payment to encourage development of the renewable fuel, the American Soybean Association said on Friday.


Greenhouse gas ocean burial can start Feb 10

International rules allowing burial of greenhouse gases beneath the seabed enter into force on Saturday in what will be a step toward fighting global warming, if storage costs are cut and leaks can be averted.

Low energy TV delayed

Surface-conduction electron-emitter displays, or SEDs have about half the power use of LCDs (which use significantly less than cathode ray TVs). Of course, the prime target market is 55" screens.

I wonder how much a more "human scale" 25" or 28" screen would use; or a "get by" 13" ? Perhaps 10 or 12 watts ?

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jan2007/gb20070108_91314...

An essential part of the non-negotiable 'American Way of Life" that CAN be saved by the "Just-In-Time Technology Fairy" (tm) (Made in Japan). If we cannot drive, we can at least sit at home and watch a screen.

Best Hopes,

Alan

I wonder if we could run our electrified railroads off the power savings from SEDs ?

Perhaps tax every other form of television EXCEPT SED 28" screen or smaller. Large screens (including SEDs) get a luxury tax (increases with size, small tax for 32" or 35", thousands for 55"+), all types except SEDs get a "energy waste tax" (varies by power wasted, CRTs taxed more, LCDs taxed less) and we give a tax credit for buying a medium or small screen SED for several years to speed the transition.

Less waste heat from the TV means less air conditioning needed.

IMVHO (back of envelope) SED TVs + more compact fluorescents could save enough to run the current railroads PLUS a large % of heavy truck inter-city freight. SEDs alone might run the main lines today.

Best Hopes,

Alan

This may be something TPTB are working on much harder than we realized.

Case in point: A few years ago in a large apartment building I'm living in, the power goes out. It's dark, it's still early evening, nuthin' much to do, no TV to watch, so.... people get their flashlights and glowsticks and a few have candles, and start getting together and talking. Little groups form, and start getting to know each other. Oh, I live here, Wow, you're right around the corner from me, Hey, I've seen you in the parking garage, you have that so and such car right? Remember that time in the library... etc.

If it stays out, for a few days, sure you get some pissed off people, but the main thing is you end up with these social networks that have formed. You may have people realizing how much time they waste watching TV and sitting around, you may end up with, after time, if these social networks are not snuffed out, POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS.

However, in the case I saw, after a few hours the lights came back on and we went back to our TVs and not knowing each other and never saying Hi or making eye contact. We went back to being good Americans.

It may however be harder to keep people good Americans, not knowing and not trusting their neighbors, if those darned TVs keep fritzing out everytime the power goes out - which will only happing more often in our decaying Empire.

Hence, the low-power TV. We may see TVs that can run off of the UPS you may already have for your computer, TVs that can run off of a car batt, TVs that can run day/night off of a $100 solar cell array like they sell at Fry's, charging during the day.

We may see much more effort and exotic materials put into this than there would be otherwise, because TVs give TPTB that valuable social control.

Hi fleam,

I like your story. You may be interested in these folks: http://www.tvturnoff.org/. They used to be called "TV Free America", which I liked a lot better. Then they changed their name. Still, maybe check them out. "Live free - turnoff TV".

I really enjoy TV-free life myself. As one of my neighbors used to say "I may not accomplish anything in my life, but when I look back, I'll say - 'At least I didn't spend it watching TV'"

When you write:
"However, in the case I saw, after a few hours the lights came back on and we went back to our TVs and not knowing each other and never saying Hi or making eye contact."

I wonder what it would take for someone to make these kind of get togethers something that happens...?

One 19-inch TFT-LCD computer monitor I measured a while back took about 20W. (A 19 inch CRT might take around 80W and typically has a slightly smaller useful screen area.) One thing we'll have to see is how long an 'SED' actually lasts, since manufacturing cost/energy may well dominate. After all, if that TFT-LCD lasts 20,000 hours (10 years active business use, one shift), and it uses 20W, it will only use 400kwh over all that time, which might be $40 in electricity at retail rates, or $15 at wholesale rates. I suspect it takes more than that to make it, but anything more than a guesstimate is probably proprietary information.

Unfortunately, just a week or two of driving, even in the most efficient vehicle, is likely to use more than 400kwh. So if it turns out that we cannot - or do not wish to - or let the NIMBYs and BANANAs run the whole show as in the Case of Ted Kennedy and the Wind Farm - build enough of something to have reasonably abundant energy supplies in the future, then, yes, indeed, we will be sitting at home watching screens. This should shock no one - before energy became abundant, most people could do little but sit home, once they were done with the day's enormously hard labor. And the hard reality is that only dead people have zero environmental impact.

let the NIMBYs and BANANAs run the whole show

I am pro-NIMBY and pro-BANANA. Humans have already destroyed & polluted too much of this world. Humans need to learn to live without cars and television sets and consumer goods. Humans probably ought to learn to adapt to their own local environment, too, rather than using climate control to maintain a "perfect" temperature suitable for the comforts of the obese & lazy.

David Mathews
http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1

What happened to the flag system that was announced the other day? I can't wait.

Sorry David, but I would rather watch paint dry than read your rubbish. That was not hyperbole.

Hello pickyreader,

Sorry David, but I would rather watch paint dry than read your rubbish.

I am so saddened to hear you say that, pickyreader. Then again, it is altogether possible that I simply don't care about your opinions.

Have you considered that possibility?

David Mathews
http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1

If you simply did not care, you wouldn't be so saddened now, would you?

This deep thought message brought to you by:

Hothgor! Paid Troll Extraordinare!

Hello Hothgor,

If you simply did not care, you wouldn't be so saddened now, would you?

That would mean ... I was not saddened. Thanks for the clarification, Hothgor.

I feel bad for anyone who actually reads every post on these threads. Such people ought to spend their time watching paint dry. There are really one about three different arguments which occur here on The Oil Drum on a regular (near-daily) basis, and after a week all the different views are fully expressed.

Anyone who reads all the posts on The Oil Drum really needs to find some sort of hobby ... like watching paint dry. I really do believe that most of the regular posters spend way too much time on The Oil Drum and way too much time thinking strictly about oil & mathematical models regarding oil.

There's more to life than this. Like watching paint dry.

Hothgor, don't you have any other interests? Pursue them.

David Mathews
http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1

Hello Everyone,

Here's an Anderson Cooper news clip regarding the Niger Delta tragedy:

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/scp_v3/viewer/index.php?pid=16598&rn=49750&...

Nigeria is undoubtedly a country which would have benefited were it governed by the principles of NIMBY and BANANA over the last several decades. The oil industry has made a horrendous mess out of the delta.

It is sad to think that those who have profited from these crimes are rewarded by our economy for their success.

David Mathews
http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1

dmathews you're mellowing out, and becoming much more readable.

However, as I've said before and will keep saying, much of this web site is all about How can be keep the Modern civilization party going?

Just coming right on out and saying that humans "hafta" learn to live without cars and TVs and live within Mother Nature's budget will make you about as popular as someone screaming on the sinking Titanic, "DO SOMETHING people, we're SINKING!"

dmathews is just too blunt in the way he says what he says.
but that doesn't mean what he says is wrong, just that people do not want to listen.
because what he represents is the reality that drastic changes are needed to at least minimally soften the blow reality is about to make on people.
or as someone posted here once.
you can't solve a problem with the same frame of mind that got you into the problem in the first place.

i am also against the 'flag' system.
whats to stop jack*&^^%'s like Hothgor from signing up multiple accounts then using them to flag people like west texas off the page?
don't think that will happen? it happens more then the people at slashdot like to admit.

That's why Slashdot has meta-moderation, where anyone can pop over and check a few comments' moderation for fairness. Not a perfect solution, but helps.

I had assumed that I would only be able control the people that I was able to ignore. This is not necessarily a good assumption.

If I had to choose who could flags other posters for me I would devise a weighting system where only the story contributors were able to set flags, and their flags would be multiplied by the number of articles that they have posted to TOD. Under that system, I would not want to get on Leanan's bad side!

Do you mean humans need to do without consumer goods like bread? Food is the ultimate consumer good because everybody uses it while not everyone uses electricity.

Hello Thomas,

Do you mean humans need to do without consumer goods like bread? Food is the ultimate consumer good because everybody uses it while not everyone uses electricity.

I am in favor of bread but opposed to oil, electricity and technology. Consumers can keep their bread if they sacrifice all of these other things. But if the consumers sacrifice nothing they won't even have bread to eat.

David Mathews
http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1

BUT but but but but but ..... will people have to do without IPODS???? No CELL PHONES???

Somewhere on some deep level these are being seen as equivalent with bread. In fact, what yup eats bread any more? Isn't it pasta al dente and various scones and things?

You can really scare the bejeezuz out of people here flat-out saying that it will be bread and bicycles not ipods and solar-nano-fusion-heavywater-good-karma-powered-GreenPorsches and let the easy motorin' go on.......

Mr. Mathews,
Bread can't be produced without using technology like an oven, some form of plow, and at least harnesses for draft animals.
Your blanket statements against technology reveal a certain cognitive dissonance between your ears. You detest technology yet continue to berate us using the most sophisticated technology ever created. Be true to your beliefs and stop using up space on this discussion board.

Hello thomas deplume,

Your blanket statements against technology reveal a certain cognitive dissonance between your ears. You detest technology yet continue to berate us using the most sophisticated technology ever created. Be true to your beliefs and stop using up space on this discussion board.

Individual sacrifices are not sufficient to solve this problem. This civilization needs to sacrifice its technological crutches or otherwise it will suffer the consequences. So I will speak to the civilization using the tools which make such communication possible.

David Mathews
http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1

What is a BANANA?

BANANA (an acronym of Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything or possibly Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone) is a term most often used to criticize the ongoing opposition of certain interest groups to land development.

The apparent opposition of some activists to every instance of proposed development suggests that they seek a complete absence of new growth. Compare with acronym NIMBY, which describes development stymied by those who do not want the development in "their backyard".

The acronym was coined by Don Terner, President of affordable housing developer BRIDGE Housing of San Francisco, in 1990 or earlier. The term is also used within the context of planning in the UK. The Sunderland City Council lists the term on their online dictionary of jargon.

[edit] References

THANKS

Hello Conrad,

BANANA (an acronym of Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything or possibly Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone) is a term most often used to criticize the ongoing opposition of certain interest groups to land development.

The apparent opposition of some activists to every instance of proposed development suggests that they seek a complete absence of new growth.

Exactly. This is why I am pro-BANANA. Get your oil industry off my planet!

David Mathews
http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1

FWIW, because of the licensing issue that was giving the SED venture problems, Toshiba recently sold all of its interests to its partner, Canon. So Canon now owns the whole venture. How this will play out is still unknown because SED is still more expensive manufacture, even if otherwise being preferable to other technologies.

SED is however an example of where we can continue to work on increase the efficiencies of many of the products that we use. I expect that over the next two decades much of what we use in daily life will be scrutinzed for energy improvements.

US preparations for an air strike against Iran are at an advanced stage, in spite of repeated public denials by the Bush administration, according to informed sources in Washington.

The present military build-up in the Gulf would allow the US to mount an attack by the spring. But the sources said that if there was an attack, it was more likely next year, just before Mr Bush leaves office.

Neo-conservatives, particularly at the Washington-based American Enterprise Institute, are urging Mr Bush to open a new front against Iran. So too is the vice-president, Dick Cheney. The state department and the Pentagon are opposed, as are Democratic congressmen and the overwhelming majority of Republicans. The sources said Mr Bush had not yet made a decision. The Bush administration insists the military build-up is not offensive but aimed at containing Iran and forcing it to make diplomatic concessions. The aim is to persuade Tehran to curb its suspect nuclear weapons programme and abandon ambitions for regional expansion.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2010086,00.html

Putin has made a speech about US behaviour:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6349287.stm

Get set for WWIII as Putin is smeared as a new Saddam by the "independent" western media. The threat made by Gates on Thursday will be unmentioned, of course.

We're not going to attack Russia. Unlike the Iraqis, the Russians have real air defense systems. Something to watch in any possible U.S invasion of Iran is the Iranian's Russian built TOR-M1 system. These systems are specifically designed for shooting down American cruise missiles and aircraft. If the invasion of Iran happens, and I doubt it will happen, the performance of the TOR-M1 during the initial air strikes will be a critical factor. If the TORs are effective, then the Russians will gain enormous prestige in that they can claim to any defense partner that they can provide an effective defense against American aviation. If they fail then the Russians will have a much harder time building a sphere of influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor-M1

The Tor Missile System (Russian: "Тор"; English: torus [1]) is a low to medium-altitude, short-range surface-to-air missile system designed for engaging airplanes, helicopters, cruise missiles, precision guided munitions, unmanned aerial vehicles and ballistic targets.

...

Russia has delivered an indeterminant amount of Tor-M1 systems to the Islamic Republic of Iran amid protests from the United States.[2] It is suspected that at least 29 such systems have been transferred along with service contracts with an approximate value of between $700,000,000 and $1,000,000,000 USD.[3]

oh the us will attack iran.
not only would a more friendly regime(doesn't matter how it gets put in place) there allow the united states more easy access to the oil(at the sacrifice of the Iranians themselves). the bases we would build in the country would complete the so called 'encirclement' of china to prevent it's return to super-power status.

I think Putin is a pretty smart fellow. He deserves watching and should be listened to.

I watched Crude Impact. I think Pres Bush almost started laughing at his comments about ANWAR. It was like he couldn't believe how stupid the US public is and he was setting up his buddies to make another pile of money while acting to "care about america". Watch it and tell me what you think.

Bosch Aquastar Tankless Water Heater CHEAPER

I am financing and supervising the repairs and improvement of a small shotgun (12' x 36' + small bathroom, Robin Egg blue with white trim @ 3014 Maurepas for anyone visiting Jazz Fest in New Orleans :-) that was hurricane damaged (water got within 2 inches of elevated ~1900 home). It was in danger of collapse on top of an older gentleman who was having difficulty coping.

His water heater was also leaking. Last night I bought the smaller Bosch Aquastar tankless natural gas water heater @ Lowe's for $489 (sales tax to Orleans Parish is not a cost, they need EVERY penny). With $300 tax credit (which I will take) it was CHEAPER to buy (more expensive to install) than a convential water heater.

He uses hot water twice a day, so this will maximize energy savings. Natural gas will only be used (@ 80% efficiency) when he turns on the hot water tap.

Due to drafts and no insulation, etc. his monthly utility bills were running from $135 minimum to upper $200 in the summer. I hope for an average of $50 or less. New siding and insulation are critical parts of the strategy but this tankless water heater will help.

Best Hopes for Small Steps,

Alan

Good for you, Alan.

Here's hopes for a better world with people like Alan.

Alan, I've been thinking about installing a small tankless heater in our upstairs bathroom for the sink because it is a long ways from the water heater downstairs.

We run too much water to get warm water at the sink, in my opinion.

Not being an engineer, I've been trying to figure out if water and/or energy savings would be achieved such that this approach would make environmental sense.

It may also be of "economic" value over time. I'm interested in that also, but secondarily right now.

Any thoughts from alan or other engineering types out there?

It gets pretty cold here in MN, so I think we use plenty of energy heating homes and water as well.