Are Subsidies to Oil Companies Ever Justified?
Posted by Robert Rapier on April 23, 2007 - 10:58am
Topic: Alternative energy
Tags: biodiesel, biofuel, ConocoPhillips, green diesel, oil companies, subsidies [list all tags]
Should We Ever Subsidize an Oil Company?
“Of course not!” might be the immediate reaction of most people. But doesn’t it depend on the objectives you are trying to achieve or the behaviors you wish to influence? Are there no cases in which it would be warranted? What if the end result was a reduction in our fossil fuel consumption?
I think most people would like to see us move away from fossil fuels. But fossil fuels are money-makers for the oil companies, and the cheapest option (strictly in terms of dollars at the pump) for consumers. So how do we wean off of fossil fuels?
Reducing Fossil Fuel Usage
There are really two options. By far the most efficient would be to raise taxes on fossil fuels. I am an American, but have lived in Europe before, and I am back here now. In my opinion Europeans have been far wiser about their policies on fossil fuels than we have been in the U.S. They made them expensive. Does that mean everyone then lives in poverty because they can’t afford gasoline? Far from it. People have adapted. They are attracted to fuel efficient vehicles. They live in smaller houses, closer to their jobs. They embrace mass transit. These are all behaviors that the U.S. has discouraged by keeping fossil fuel taxes low. So, we are energy gluttons, and we maintain this gluttonous habit by ensuring that both major political parties think twice before raising our gas taxes.
Higher fossil fuel taxes would help level the playing field for alternative fuels. Not only does this avoid the potential mistake of trying to forecast and subsidize particular technology winners, but it also discourages alternatives that have high fossil fuel inputs. This is important, because we are now subsidizing some “alternative” options that are essentially 90% recycled fossil fuel. Taxing fossil fuels would strongly penalize those alternatives with high fossil fuel inputs.
However, I think it is unlikely that our political leaders have the will to tackle the tax option. So then we are left with the alternative of subsidizing alternative energy and hoping that one or more sustainable options are developed as a result. We have tried this experiment with corn ethanol for 30 years now. It has been heavily subsidized since the late 1970’s, and today it is still not a viable option without mandates or subsidies. (I know that there are those who truly believe that grain ethanol could survive without the subsidies. I think what we would see is that the industry would collapse like a row of dominoes, which is why the subsidy remains in place).
Renewable Diesel
One option that I have always felt had serious potential as a sustainable option is renewable diesel. Not only is the EROEI of the biodiesel production process superior to that of grain ethanol, but a diesel engine is also much more efficient than a spark-ignition engine (which is where our ethanol supply ends up). And like ethanol, we also subsidize renewable diesel. And there aren't all that many objections to subsidizing biodiesel; that is until an oil company wants to make it.
Biodiesel, which is strictly defined as alkyl esters made from the transesterification of vegetable oils or animal fats, receives a $1/gallon production subsidy. Biodiesel is produced by reacting the vegetable oil or animal fat with (typically) methanol (which is usually produced from fossil fuels) and a strong caustic. The products are biodiesel and a glycerol by-product that can be difficult to dispose of (it is often simply incinerated). There is also a wastewater discharge, containing "free fatty acids that have a high biochemical oxygen demand, or BOD, that can remove oxygen from water bodies and harm aquatic life." None of the by-products, however, are classified as hazardous waste.
There are two other forms of renewable, or "green diesel" that aren't strictly defined as biodiesel. One is obtained via a gasification and subsequent Fischer-Tropsch reaction of biomass. Choren, for instance, uses this process to make their SunDiesel product. The other form involves thermal processes in which animal fats or vegetable oils are heated and sometimes reacted with hydrogen to transform the oils into a diesel product. Such processes for making diesel have been referred to as second-generation biofuel technology. And these second-generation technologies have one big advantage over the first-generation technologies: They can be blended up to 100% with conventional diesel in any weather. The cold weather limitations of alkyl ester biodiesel are well-known.
There was some uncertainty about whether new green diesel technologies met the definition of biodiesel and therefore qualified for the subsidy. So Missouri Representative Roy Blunt, to help a company in his district - Changing World Technologies (CWT) - inserted a provision to make sure that so-called thermal depolymerization processes also received the subsidy. In addition, he helped CWT secure a $5 million grant. While this is money that in hindsight was probably thrown down a black hole because of grossly exaggerated claims on the part of CWT (See my essay TDP: The Next Big Thing), it did set a precedent for expanding the biodiesel subsidy to include processes other than strict alkyl ester biodiesel. In general, I would think that funding second-generation technologies is as important as funding first-generation technologies.
The First-Generation Recipients Scream Foul
On April 16th, 2007 ConocoPhillips and Tyson Foods announced a collaborative effort to produce green diesel via one of the second-generation technologies. But the National Biodiesel Board, a lobby for the first-generation biodiesel producers, cried foul and issued an incredibly hypocritical news release, which I have dissected:
The Biodiesel Lobby Cries Foul
Their argument was that it was not fair to give an oil company - already making billions in profits - incentives for producing biofuels. They also complained that the White House was directly lobbied on this matter. This issue is discussed at:
ConocoPhillips, Tyson Lobbied White House on Tax Rule
The persistent theme of the article is that the credit was expanded on behalf of ConocoPhillips and Tyson Foods. But it appears to me that a clarification was requested before millions of dollars had been invested in this process. From the EPA's Regulation of Fuels and Fuel Additives: Renewable Fuel Standard Requirements for 2006 , issued December 30, 2005 we find the following definition of biodiesel:
Biodiesel means a diesel fuel substitute produced from nonpetroleum renewable resources that meets the registration requirements for fuels and fuel additives established by the Environmental Protection Agency under section 211 of the Clean Air Act. It includes biodiesel derived from animal wastes (including poultry fats and poultry wastes) and other waste materials, or biodiesel derived from municipal solid waste and sludges and oils derived from wastewater and the treatment of wastewater.
That definition is certainly not process-specific, but I can understand the desire to get clarification on the rules before the project was announced. The sticking point could be that someone could argue that "biodiesel" has traditionally been the term for the ester product. But the key phrase to me looks like "diesel fuel substitute produced from nonpetroleum renewable resources." After all, what are we actually trying to achieve with these subsidies? Isn't the point to encourage movement away from fossil fuels and toward biofuels? Shall we start picking technology winners by funding one renewable "diesel fuel substitute" while denying funding to another?
But some didn't see it that way at all. What they saw was that an oil company was going to get the same subsidy that biodiesel producers received, and they are quite happy to cut off their nose to spite their face:
Democrats Target Tax Break for ConocoPhillips, Tyson
April 20 (Bloomberg) -- Democrats in Congress plan to reverse an Internal Revenue Service ruling that allowed ConocoPhillips and Tyson Foods Inc. to benefit from a tax break for producing alternative energy.
If adopted, the legislation would threaten a joint venture announced this week by ConocoPhillips and Tyson to produce diesel fuel from animal fat. Lawmakers said that the tax credit was intended to benefit new technologies using animal carcasses and other food waste and that the companies pressured Bush administration officials to redefine it.
I almost hate to point out that this is new technology. This particular process came along much later than both traditional biodiesel manufacture and the CWT process that didn't actually work as advertised yet still got $5 million.
As Jim Mulva pointed out, the project is not profitable without the tax credit and would not go forward otherwise:
ConocoPhillips spokesman Bill Graham said today that remarks by company Chief Executive Officer Jim Mulva earlier in the week sum up the company's position on the tax cuts. Mulva said that ConocoPhillips and Tyson wouldn't proceed with the venture if they didn't qualify for the tax credit, worth $1 per gallon of renewable diesel produced.
"It's not profitable without the $1 tax credit," Mulva said April 16 at a news conference in Houston. "It's very important and significant in going forward at this point in time."
A Tyson spokesman also weighed in:
Gary Mickelson, a Tyson spokesman, said today that the company hadn't seen any legislation.
"Denying the tax credit will only serve to limit the expansion and availability of alternative fuels and also damage the ability of livestock farmers and ranchers to participate in the renewable energy business," Mickelson said in an e-mail, citing support for the IRS ruling by the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, National Pork Producers Council, National Chicken Council and Texas Cattle Feeders Association.
The article also pointed out the it wasn't only the biodiesel lobby that was unhappy:
It also angered the American Soybean Association, which fears refiners may begin shipping in less-expensive foreign palm oil to replace U.S. soy oil at the government's expense.
This is a ridiculous argument, because nothing is stopping conventional biodiesel producers from doing that right now. Of course this sort of protectionism is nothing new in the renewable energy field, as we do the same thing with corn ethanol. We subsidize it, and then penalize much more sustainable Brazilian ethanol with a $0.54/gallon tariff. Except in this case, we are going to discourage the development of an alternative within the U.S. because it will benefit a U.S. oil company.
An article in the Houston Chronicle discussed the economics in a bit more detail:
Jeff Webster, general manager of Tyson's Renewable Energy Division, noted that the cost of using animal fat as a feedstock is about $2 a gallon, or about $84 a barrel.
That compares with crude oil futures running above $63 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
The $1-per-gallon tax credit, however, would bring the feedstock cost for animal fat down to about $1 a gallon, or $42 a barrel.
"In general, the feedstock cost is the big driver of your overall costs, as much as 75 percent of your cost structure," Webster said.
Asked about the effort to change the interpretation, ConocoPhillips spokesman Bill Graham noted: "With any repeal, you're changing the economics for the manufacturing of the renewable diesel.
"If it is repealed and maintained for other forms of alternative energy, then what you're doing is picking and choosing between alternative energies. And we don't think that's sound public policy."
Objections
Most objections that I have seen are generally along the lines of "Why on earth would I want my tax dollars going to a company making billions of dollars a year? They don't need any subsidies."
Of course that is correct. They don't need subsidies to continue business as usual. In fact, all that would happen if you removed the so-called indirect subsidies is that we would pay more for gasoline. There would be some demand destruction as a result, so perhaps there would be some impact to the oil companies, but for the most part it would be business as usual.
And there's the rub. If you want to take that position: "They don't need my tax money", then don't expect them to do things that you think they should do. As someone else wrote to me "It is in their best interest to move into biofuels." But you see, as far as they are concerned it is not. What is being asked here is for them to enter into a guaranteed money-losing commercial venture. That is a lot different than just funding R&D research, which is being done regardless.
You saw the API conference call transcript. The oil industry, rightly or wrongly, believes that their business will be oil for quite some time. So that leaves two possibilities.
First, what if they are wrong? Well, if they are wrong and they are discouraged from moving into next-generation fuels, then you and I will suffer. It will be peak with no parachute. We will have wasted quite an opportunity to nudge them in the direction of diversifying the fuel supply.
So, what if they are right and there is plenty of oil and gas? Well, they will continue to make oil and gas, consumers will continue to buy it, oil companies will continue to profit, and greenhouse gas emissions will continue to rise. And they will not change their behavior because the status quo is making money, and the shareholders are happy.
So the way I see it, we need to encourage a move away from fossil fuels even if we have to give oil companies the same incentives that we give everyone else. Who will be hurt if we don't is you and me.
Conclusions
This case is very frustrating to me. It highlights the problems that we are going to have in encouraging oil companies to move toward alternative energy. What is the purpose of these subsidies? Isn't it to make the alternatives competitive with fossil fuels? So then why should we expect oil companies to expand R&D on alternative fuels if they are going to sell these fuels at a loss? Remember, the current biodiesel producers aren't losing their $1/gallon tax credit. Farmer Marty Ross, mentioned in The Biodiesel Lobby Cries Foul, is still going to receive his $5.5 million a year in subsidies. Furthermore, he qualifies for various grants and low-interest loans to give him an additional benefit. But biodiesel producers want both a subsidy and a monopoly, and their position endangers us all by discouraging the development of next-generation alternatives.
Oil companies are still answerable to their shareholders. They can't be expected to invest big dollars into product development if they believe they are going to sell the product at a loss. These credits should be open to anyone willing to make the necessary investments. Would you rather see the money flow to the Middle East? Do you want the next generation of fuels to be coal-based, or derived from shale oil? Because this is what will happen if we make it more difficult for oil companies to become involved in alternative fuels. Ask yourself the following questions:
1. Will technologies like this reduce our dependence on foreign oil? Yes.
2. Will this encourage a renewable diesel technology that does not commercially exist? Yes
3. Will this help diversify our fuel supply? Yes.
4. Does this produce a fuel with superior performance characteristics? Yes
That would seem like a slam-dunk. Yet there is one more question to answer, and because of that answer some are willing to forego quite an opportunity to nudge oil companies in a sustainable direction:
5. Will an oil company benefit, just as any other company could benefit? Yes.
I have personally lobbied my company to become more involved in alternative energy, and this attempt to rescind the credit is very upsetting to me. I have skin in the game here, and I want to encourage my company to move into alternative fuels. But rescinding the credit will be a disincentive because I know what the economics look like for these biofuels.
Disclaimer
Of course I do work for "an" oil company. I can't say which one, although it is relatively easy to figure out with Google. I tell you this because I don't want there to be any misunderstandings. However, I can't come right out and name my company, because I am not sanctioned to speak for them. Their position and my position don't always mesh, so it is important to keep my personal opinions separate from official company statements.
I was conflicted about whether to write this essay, because I don't want it to look like I am putting my self-interests ahead of good energy policy. And I wouldn't even touch this one, but I think this is a very important, precedent-setting issue that has major implications on the direction of our energy policy. I asked and received feedback from TOD editors and contributors, and the feedback that I did receive suggested that I should go ahead and post it.



In many ways, the taxpayer subsidizing the operation is equivalent to investors in any other business, i.e., they are putting up capital. On this basis, I would argue that the investor-taxpayers should also be granted an equity interest in the operation. (Shades of Hugo!)
Personally, I'm willing to see the whole biofuel industry die since I believe it is unsustainable and, further, that it will make little difference down the road but that's another story.
Sorry -mistaken post- deleted.
If you absolutely have to have a biofuels industry, why on earth would you subsidize a multinational corporation? You'd want to keep the benefits local, including the profits.
I can't quie agree about the biofuel industry dying - to the extent that oil from rapeseed is used for tractors, for example, it is pretty much the same as feeding horses or oxen, except the tractors are able to perform much more work for considerably less input. Unless you wish to be as romantic as some of the original Greens in Germany, and believe that agriculture using farm animals is a viable way to feed people.
Of course, this is not the goal of the biofuel industry as such - and to be honest, pressing something like rapeseed for oil to use in farming doesn't actually require a biofuel industry either.
"[...] except the tractors are able to perform much more work for considerably less input."
Input of what? Input of man-hours? Agreed. Input of fossil fuels? I'm not so sure. In terms of work done for fuel fed, both are probably pretty inefficient. A horse or ox does have the distinct advantage that much of its fuel can be obtained from marginal land. When not working they can get all of their fuel from marginal land.
Certainly, I'm very curious about the Food Energy Return On Food Energy Input (FEROFEI) with bio-diesel tractors compared to draft animal power sources. My guess is that it would depend on what you're doing and how you do it.
I've done some plowing and harrowing behind a team of horses and it is slow going, but not a bad way to spend a morning if the weather is nice as it usually is in spring and fall plowing seasons.
Input of fossil fuels? I'm not so sure. In terms of work done for fuel fed, both are probably pretty inefficient. A horse or ox does have the distinct advantage that much of its fuel can be obtained from marginal land. When not working they can get all of their fuel from marginal land.
In terms of photon->work oil from fossil fuels is least efficient. Photons->pv->...-> work can be better than photon->plant->seedoil->work. Photon->plant->animal->work the conversion of plant to animal energy is poor value.
Marginal land is still taxed. Somehow your animal powered vision has to fit the present economic system.
Rescind the subsidies. If the animal fat is worth $2/gal, use it as a food stock.
What's THAT cost to Medicare?
It seems to me that a proper (indeed a central) role for democratic Gov't is to act as an agent for the public (as opposed to private) interests.
For me the following things follow from this:
- If Gov't is to fund research activities then the product of that research should serve public interests i.e. the data should be released to the public domain or, at the least, the intellectual property rights, and the royalty revenues that flow from the commercialization of them by the private sector, should go to the state, not a private company, and used for the benifit of the general population i.e. to offset taxation.
- Likewise with Gov't investments in built infrastructure, the thing that is built should be public, not private, property.
Tax incentives on the production side are, in my opinion, just about the worst way for Gov't to seek to effect behavior change. I say this because:
- The ability of companies to "game" the tax system is huge. The goal of the company will always be to minimise tax paid , not necessarly to engage in the behaviour change the Gov't seeks to effect.
- Democracy is impossible without public oversight, and this in turn requires public access to information. Because tax records are confidential between the Gov't and the tax payer detailed public oversight of this activity becomes impossible. For this and other reasons if Gov't is to directly subsidise it should, in my opinion be done via grants or loans whose paperwork is fully public.
If the collective decision is to encourage bio-fuel consumption (hopefully at the expense of fossil fuels) then I'd suggest that the equitable way to do it is to rebate the consumer i.e. have the Gov't pay a rebate of X$ per gallon to the end user upon proof of purchase.
Let me be clear that I'm not advocating for such a rebate in this particular case, from what little I know about bio-fuels large scale development would, if possible at all, be a nightmare in terms of global heating, soil depletion, etc. as discussed at length here. I'm just saying that IF we DO want to encourage it using gov't fiscal methods this is how to go about it.
I take it as axiomatic that an objective of "business" is, whenever possible, to "externalize" i.e. "commonize" their costs and "privatize" their profits. I don't hold them as "evil" for acting this way, anymore than I hold a Lion as "evil" for eating some cute looking helpless prey species, they are each just "doing what they do", but we should all remember that we are, in fact, members of a prey species (lets not be helpless) when we hear business saying that they think a really good idea is being proposed...
“It seems to me that a proper (indeed a central) role for democratic Gov't is to act as an agent for the public (as opposed to private) interests.” Posted by John Milton
Except that well organized and funded private interests are much better at getting a democratic government to cater to their interests than is the generally apathetic, distracted and disorganized “public.” Any conversation within the halls of an elected government is constantly skewed and led off track by these private (usually corporate) interests. For any government to seriously address these problems, they have to be empowered to toss the lobbyists, admen and spin doctors off the table and focus on actual, workable solutions, without fearing a political backlash on the next election day. This is a large part of the reason that Cuba was able to survive the cutoff of Russian oil after the collapse of the Soviet Union relatively intact.
Trying to hang on to “our democracy” as we go farther post-peak is like trying to hang on to the private automobile, ultimately, neither are sustainable and both are part of the problem. Furthermore, it distracts us from addressing the actual situation and prevents our considering realistic solutions as these are deemed “politically impossible.”
Antoinetta III
Antoinetta III:
"Except that well organized and funded private interests are much better..."
Pretty much agree with that paragraph, sad but true esp. in N. America.
But when you say:
"Trying to hang on to “our democracy” as we go farther post-peak is like trying to hang on to the private automobile, ultimately, neither are sustainable and both are part of the problem."
Do you mean to suggest that only some non-democratic form of Gov't can function post - peak? If so then I'd need a good argument for that position, or have I misunderstood you?
I would suggest that the assumption is: what is called "our democracy" is not democratic.
Whoever people vote into power will continue to work more for the lobbying parties than for the people... perhaps the need is for a small (less complexity), democratic government that is truly independent of corporate lobbying and is easily held accountable.
As A. III noted: "...they have to be empowered to toss the lobbyists, admen and spin doctors off the table and focus on actual, workable solutions, without fearing a political backlash on the next election day."
That was how I read it, anyway...
"You can never solve a problem on the level on which it was created."
Albert Einstein
I agree that that is what she meant, and in any case, it is what I mean. We don't have a democracy. We have a corporate kleptocracy, and it is hard to imagine that peak oil stress is going to cause a flourishing of a "power to the people" movement. The stakes will rise, the resources will shrink, and the corporate interests will ultimately take over completely.
In fact I'd argue that it is the oil age bubble that has allowed what little democracy we have in the U.S. to remain in operation these last 100 years. So great has been the abundance of American agriculture and energy that even the greediest private interests haven't been able to take everything or drive the "public interest" out of government entirely.
In the future, a future of scarcity and economic losers, it is easy to forsee that things could get less democratic, less open to the interests of the common person, less isolated from corporate interests.
It's a paradox. If a system is elected and "democratic", how do you prevent a few-well organized and financed special interests from out-organizing and out-spending the more or less inattentive "general population" to ensure that government prioritizes their agenda before the long-term interests of the overall society.
If a government has the authority to toss said special interests off the table, it's not democratic. And when the special interests take control, it ceases to be democratic.
Antoinetta III
Ummm... o.k. I thought this would be "understood", but seems not.
You are not going to have a functional democracy if you have a 'more or less inattentive "general population"', by which I mean a population which does no more than vote at election time. (and yes I know many don't even do that).
That's sort of like calling yourself a cabinet maker because you bought an old hand plane at a garage sale.
This is actually understood much more widely in Europe and elsewhere than it is in North America.
Thanks for the article, Robert. I always come away better informed.
Rick D.
How about the "hidden subsidy" the US armed forces have provided the oil industry for the safe transport for oil tankers and more over the last few decades. Its free to the Oil companies. What about the drilling contracts the govt has with some. That too is a hidden subsidy. The effort in protecting oil has grown in the last ten years. There's a feedback loop for you.
The amount of money the US taxpayer is spending in efforts to protect oil for the oil industry is huge. What does,.. say.. something like, the fifth fleet, cost to run a day. This is just normal everyday stuff, not including Iraq etc.
Quid Clarius Astris
Ubi Bene ibi patria
The National Defense Council Foundation did a study, updated in 2006, which put the externalized costs (military and otherwise but not including US environmental impacts) of middle east oil consumed in the US as gasoline at $8.35 / gallon on top of the retail price visable at the pump.
Summary of study here:
http://ndcf.homeip.net/ndcf/energy/NDCF_Hidden_Cost_2006_summary_paper.p...
A long standing, legitimate use of Naval forces is that of Escort. Always has been. Indeed, I have long been against the drawdown in US naval forces, from the near 600 ship peak to the now ~300 ship Navy for just this very purpose. While frigates are not the most glamorous of naval combatants, they and the diesel subs are important for escorting and keeping shipping lanes safe.
Do the oil companies pay taxes? Or even more importantly, to the oil company owners (shareholders, including a great number of retirement portfolios) pay taxes?
You're asking me if the oil companies pay Taxes. Don't you know. Do shareholders pay taxes on their profits. Again, don't you know how the markets work. Do you understand capital gains tax and when it occurs. What the current capital gains tax is.
Keeping the shipping lanes free. Excuse me, but who are we protecting the lanes from.
Providing escort is long standing tradition. Really, in times of peace. When did this start. Do we also escort ships bringing in goods from China. What flags are the oil tankers/ships flying. Are they flying US register flags, or from countries other than the US. If other countries why is the US providing cover for ships registered to other countries.
What other industries also receive safe passage for their vessels that come to the US.
Long standing tradition. Please give examples of this when not at war or a real hazard is in place. What is the hazard now.
What other countries benefit from our "cover" that do not contribute toward the expense. Do all the ships that get cover all port in the US for their oil to be offloaded or do numerous other countries also have ships that divert once out of certain waters and go to other countries.
Time of War for oil is one thing, and its for military purpose.
I would like to know all the other Escort ships being used besides those for oil also. Can you provide a list.
Quid Clarius Astris
Ubi Bene ibi patria
You are obviously unaware of the problems of piracy, which is an issue today as it has always been. In particular, the Indian Ocean and the waters of SE Asia. Additionally, off the African coast there have been issues with Islamic groups working through piracy. So that is one issue, or basket of issues.
The escorting of non-US flagged ships is not really a big deal - if the ship is coming into or going out of a US port (or one of our allies') then it matters to us, thus the legitimacy of using a US Naval escort.
Case in point would be west African waters, where western navies likely will have to maintain a presence for quite awhile. While many of the workers/companies may be from elsewhere (China, Korea, etc.) those nations don't have navies to do the job (or don't do them well), and while the Russian navy is capable they just don't care (I suppose they'd rather sell their own oil...). The Japanese navy is capable but is currently restricted (consitutionally) in their use, though the current PM would like to change that.
And while you may not believe it, there is a need to "show the flag" in contentious waters (e.g., Persian Gulf.) You probably do not believe that, but that is a discussion on foreign policy/philosophy that is probably beyond the scope of TOD and involves many fundamental beliefs which, were we to discuss them here, would end up being very long posts.
The other issue is the very, very long lead times wrt naval forces and their maintenance - you can't just turn on/off a fleet. We "mothball" ships but even that is time consuming process, and it is always expensive to bring a ship online. Not to mention the manpower/training issues. In other words, if you want an effective Naval force you need to maintain one, even in times of (relative) peace. In WWII we were fortunate to have had the world's largest industrial base and oil supply, so we could quickly crank out (relatively crude by today's standards) ships. Not so today.
You have not addressed the issue that amounts to a subsidy for the oil company. The US taxpayer is paying for this protection.
Piracy. What size ship do these pirates have. how do they board an oil tanker. Does the oil tanker not have protection on their ship. Piracy is not terrorism, and pirates would not blow up a ship because it didn't stop, because they know what that would get them.
The issue is WHO PAYS.
You also did not address the issues with how much corporate tax the Oil industry paid to the US last Year. The argument that the shareholders should bear the burden instead of the company is also a cop out.
You did not address what other industries also have protection for their ships. I guess that is because you couldn't find one.
The flag ship matters to "us", who is "US".
The argument that our navy would be be mothballed is also a strawman argument. IF not then you are telling me that the ONLY reason they exist is to protect oil ships.
The need to show the flag in Gulf waters. Yes a large discussion, but not one that says that the US taxpayer should pay for the oil company protection without fees. That the US consumer should pay for the subsidy for new drilling like we just did and are.
Quid Clarius Astris
Ubi Bene ibi patria
Not enough, apparently. Just last year, a UAE oil tanker was seized by pirates off Somalia. This list details multiple assaults on tankers and other bulk carrier ships in May 2006 alone, and this is a first-person accounting of time spent on a large oil tanker which notes "Even the really big tankers (such as ours) were not exempt."
So, contrary to your belief, piracy is a problem for commercial shipping.
No, but they would tie up the crew and leave the oil tanker to drift, risking a large oil spill and endangering other ships (including tankers) using the shipping lane.
Every other industry that uses ships. It's not like combatting piracy only helps ships that happen to be carrying oil.
National militaries have been used for defending commerce against piracy since at least the Roman Empire. If you believe that is no longer a reasonable function for a country's navy to perform, the onus is on you to make that argument, and to suggest an alternative.
Or, at the very least, educate yourself a little bit before you start ranting.
That you believe something does not make it true.
Good post Robert but I would like to know why you think this is an issue. The case you describe is just one of a hog that feeds at the government trough squeeling because another hog wants some too. This happens all the time; Government sets energy policies and lobbyists fight for the money.
If you want another example of how funny this can be just do some research on the Energy Biosciences Institute soon to be established at UC Berkeley and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory with $500 million in funding from BP. This story is a local one for me and in the local papers they describe meetings where you had the most left-leaning group you can think of (professors) in one of the most left-leaning government-supported organizations (UC Berkely) in the most left-leaning industry (academia) in the most left-leaning locality in the US faced with accepting a huge sum of money from one of the biggest corporations in the world in an industry they believe is evil to research a renewable energy source. There were so many contradictions that the heads of a few of the professors almost exploded when they were trying to parse it all.
Keithster100,
Left, left, left you say.
Let me guess, you're not. And I'll go out on a limb here and guess you are on the other end of the spectrum.
This post would indicate to me that the Left/non-Left filter that seems active here is important, probably first and foremost by far, to the extent that you didn't even mention the merits of the arguments that buttress the work they are doing. I mean you mention contradictions – how so ?
Exploding heads – why for ?
By your own admission you are local to the story. Sounds to me like you are sitting in the catbird seat !
Where IS that 'Theory of Everything' ?
Here it is !
RBM,
I am pointing out the political leanings of those involved in this research to illustrate how strange the bedfellows can be when it comes to subsidies and grants. My point is that right & left, free-market & collectivist systems, business & non-profit all gets muddled when it comes to energy subsidies. I am as uncomfortable with it as the professors are.
I didn't mention the merits of the work the researchers are doing because people are already sick of hearing me sing the praises of ethanol.
I am not sick of hearing about research but I am sick of hearing research getting rewritten into production by someone who has demonstrated prior financial interest in ethanol, particularly in stock which said person pumped right here on TOD then dumped himself.
Ghawar Is Dying
The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function. - Dr. Albert Bartlett
Hey Greyzon; ethanol is crap. But let me tell you about my solar power stocks.....
Well, if they stopped selling fossil fuel to the extent they sell biodiesel, meaning that the taxpayers are subsidizing substitution, without the company still earning money on the sale of the 'substituted' fossil fuels, maybe.
But then, that argument doesn't work, because of course any company is happy to keep their current profitable business model functioning while collecting money from any source to help ensure their profitability in the future. And they will always oppose losing a profitable business before it runs dry.
I could go on further by pointing out that making auto driving less attractive by reducing various subsidies connected to road building, or making other energy efficient transportation such as rail more attractive, is the sort of thing that an oil company can be counted to oppose as government meddling in a free market.
Maybe Exxonmobil, with only a piddling 40 or so billion dollar profit could be induced to invest.1% percent of that profit (1/1000 of 40,000,000,000 equals a trivial 40,000,000 dollars) in their own biodiesel operations? Yes, I know, what a fantasy - where a company actually uses its own profit to develop new profitable businesses, instead of handing its retiring CEO 1% of the profit, something must be wrong in the corporate welfare state that is America - K Street is still the place where the welfare queens really know how to milk the taxpayer. Besides, a Lear jet (using tax payer funds to keep its home airport running) is much more practical than a Cadillac in this global age.
As you can guess, my cynicism at such suggestions is dwarfed by the reality that the amounts of money involved are close to petty cash for a major oil company - unless we raise fuel taxes enough to make it worth the oil companys' time to keep business as usual profitable.
I HATE Federal or State Subsidies and other unfunded future liabilities - they are uncontrollable and no-one has ANY real idea of total amount. Each of them are uncapped multi-Hundred Billion Dollar/ year taxpayer liabilities that add up to Trillions of Lost Tax Dollars over a 10-20 year period. I am talking wind, ethanol, oil, gas, solar, etc, etc. No-one has any idea of what really is competitive, because everyone is continuously lobbying for bigger and bigger subsidies in order to feather their own nest - which I fear result in our elected officials insisting getting its share too which continues to prolong our agony. This subsidy system is ROTTEN TO THE CORE.
We should obviously copy EU and add a 100% tax to all Oil and Gas while eliminating 100% of all subsidies. That will automatically result in a level playing field, while we start generating some positive government cash flow instead of borrow, borrow, borrow to 10 Trillion +++.
If we had a 100% tax, the public would notice because it was immeadiate, not phased in over years and years, and reduce consumption 25% to 50% over a quarter year or half year - then OIL & GAS prices would DROP possibly to correct 50% of the 'tax' making the net price 50% higher.....The other 50% would come from OPEC countries - in the form of a market price correction.
We need this tax. We need to blow up the subsidies.
JoeCHP
I agree!
OK, I'm convinced. We should drop all subsidies and have a level playing field. If your business is not profitable, find another business.
It's called a false dichotomy. How about putting that money into public transit or educating people about the true cost of driving everywhere in our private autos?
I would suggest that, on the whole, support to small, agile, new entrants to the energy game is the optimum strategy.
Although existing players have the benefit of scale and systemic connections, they also have issues with destroying their own marketplaces. Solutions they find will have to mesh with their existing product lines to make it past the board to any large scale deployment. That's not to say they couldn't - more they wouldn't.
In particular what is needed is the support to allow small players to get big quick, separate from the vulture capitalists. That's advice, its access to markets, and its prevention of lockin.
Funding subsidy out of taxation on pollution is favourite to get things moving in the right direction with a double push. The other thing to take into account is that subsidy is more effective at getting swift action than is taxation. The (inadequate) domestic alternative energy grant system in the UK is regularly sold out within hours each month with people getting new systems. Taxing would never get that response.