Economy grows at slowest pace in 3 years
Posted by Stuart Staniford on January 28, 2006 - 1:39am
Topic: Economics/Finance
Tags: hubbert linearization, hubbert peak, oil prices, peak oil [list all tags]
The economy slowed to a near crawl in the final quarter of 2005, a listless showing that was the worst in three years. However, growth was respectable for the year and is expected to perk up again soon.Gross domestic product clocked in at an annual rate of just 1.1 percent from October through December. That marked a loss of speed compared with the third's quarter's brisk 4.1 percent pace, the Commerce Department reported Friday.
Belt tightening by consumers, businesses and the government figured into the fourth-quarter's slowdown.
Uh, oh! Look at that drop in growth rate from 2004 to 2005. There's never been a year in the past 35 years when that big a drop in the red line was not followed by a big drop in the blue line the same or the following year. This is particularly so when the blue line is as high above the red line as it is in 2004. Look at 1984-1985 for the closest precedent. So that suggests that the chances we'll drop to GDP growth at or around zero in the near future are excellent.Where's Freddy Hutter? At the time (in late October) he said:
Sorry Stuart, but while your analysis would indicate zero growth, the usa is indeed in the middle of its business cycle and the critical mass is such that growth avg'g greater than 2% is guaranteed til 2006Q4and later declared premature victory over the Q3 results. Q3 was already over at the time I made my prediction about "the near future":
Hey Stuart, Real GDP was announced at 4.1% this morning. I have been a proponent of sustainable grwoth thru 2006/2007. With respect to our disagreement on potential USA growth wrt Miles Data on Oct 25th when u said:The New York Times adds:"We'll see who's right :-) Maybe driving and economic activity have become uncoupled recently, but I doubt it. (I'm not saying zero growth btw - I have no way to be that precise. I just think the growth rate is bound to drop pretty significantly for a while.)"
Are u ready to say "uncle"?!!
The intensity of the economic slowdown, which reduced yearly growth to 3.5 percent from 4.2 percent in 2004, surprised many forecasters, who had expected a sharp pickup in business investment in the final months of the year to take up some of the slack in consumer spending. They had predicted an overall growth rate of 2.5 percent to 3 percent in the nation's gross domestic product, the broadest measure of goods and services produced in the United States.He should have been looking at this:"It is not so much surprising as baffling," said Ian Shepherdson, chief economist for the United States at High Frequency Economics in Valhalla, N.Y.
1.1%. Oh, I feel a terrible attack of Schadenfreude coming on....
Ok, all kidding aside, if the oil supply plateau continues flat and prices go up some more, this could well be the start of the peak oil economic ugliness.



Remember, I'm the chap who said +2% H1 2006, flat H2 2006, recession thereafter, a month back.
Looking closer at the data there were some special factors in both directions but mainly skewing it down. It may well be revised up to +2% approx in a month's time, we will see.
The most important thing I took from the data was consumer slowdown - the evidence for that riddled the data, and I don't think that is likely to recover much soon, I'm feeling comfortable with my overall 1% official GDP growth over 2006. I would be feeling very uncomfortable with the mainstream 3.5% 2006 estimate.
It is interesting comparing these comments immediately prior to the release:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7BFDE7B999%2D1142%2D43B0%2D824C%2DD560F56E50E2%7D&am p;siteid=mktw&dist
with those after it:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B5869FC75%2D4B54%2D4C08%2D900A%2D5DF170530E18%7D&am p;siteid=mktw&dist
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B465AC54A%2DED6D%2D486B%2DBDF2%2D06C065C9B1BD%7D&am p;siteid=mktw&dist=
Now, I am a sceptic on certain US economic stats, and GDP is an important one of those. My personal take is that GDP is overstated by between 1.5% and 2.5% compared with how it was reported in US 10+ years ago and how it's reported in Europe. Some others I respect think it is overstated by 3 to 4%!
By those measures the US could be entering recession now. I don't think that is true, even though it is what I predicted a year ago. I expect Q4 2005 GDP to be revised up to a little over 2% and Q1 2006 to come in (after revisions) at about 2.7%. Recession will be with the US economy within a year but I don't think it is here yet.
With or without cooking the books, a GOP regime always means the economy sucks for those who are not gazillionaires. It sucked under Reagan just as well as now. The oil peak only helps Republicans impoverish the middle class, which is their goal. Why anyone votes for these arseholes puzzles me to no end - and the Dems aren't much better. Why Bush won't talk about the oil peak is simply becuse he can't ever tell the truth about anything. I guess democracy itself wan't Y2K-compliant.
Or the early 1990's.
Yep, GOP presidents always reign over craptacular economic situations.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/66xx/doc6669/09-29-EffectsOfHurricanes.pdf
1.2% of the forecast growth was cutback due to the extreme trade deficit. A trade deficit that defines "too healthy" an economy as americans continue to buy cheaper foreign goods (and oil & gasoline). Only a downward correction in the dollar will help that situation.
No credible economists are suggesting that this gdp report is a precursor to Recession. Only the many defeatists at TOD are gloating today. Many here must mature and learn that stats go up and down on a weekly, monthly, qtr'ly and even annual basis and it is important to watch the trendline ... not be consumed in absolute numbers. Otherwise confusion reigns.
Unemployment will continue to drop thru 2006. GDP, which until Q4 had a string of 10 qtr's at 3% or above, will resume its path in Q1 as the GOM rebuild of inftastructure, homes and contents continues.
Plan for a Recession at your own peril...
Personally, I have been expecting one for two years based purely on the price of oil. The fact that we haven't had one would lead one to re-appraise our analytical tools.
"What is different this time?"
We are in new territory.
As for why the economy has held up so well...I've heard two theories, both of which seem reasonable. One is that the rise in price was gradual, not sudden like it was the last time we were in this territory. So the economy had time to adjust.
The other is that there's a difference between a supply shock and a demand shock. According to this theory, what causes recessions are supply shocks - when suddenly, there's less oil than the economy is accustomed to. What we've had until recently has been a demand shock - the world economy growing so fast that supply can't keep up with demand. Since this is a result of healthy growth, it doesn't cause recession.
According to the latter theory, Katrina could be trouble, because that actually reduced supply.
Despite this, or perhaps because of this, the economy does better under Democrats.
Is the Fed trying to get Republicans in the White House and it is actually aiding Democrats as a policy? Because it doesn't know what it's doing, or because it does?
I do agree with some of your sentiment: the Q4 2005 advance stats will probably be revised up to about +2%, there are special factors. But the US economy will be in recession, even on the current optimistic measure, within a year.
Unemployment may drop but so will employment, now there's a conundrum. How do you expect house prices and consumer spend to change?
"Confidence men", in the literal sense of the word....
No wonders that historically, the can never see the forest for the trees.
It is interesting to note that in its release of Dec 21, the BEA revised DOWNWARD the estimate for the 3rd quarter to 4.1 percent ("final"). The Q3 05 "preliminary" number was 4.3 percent. See http://www.bea.gov/bea/newsrelarchive/2005/gdp305f_fax.pdf. The "preliminary" estimate for Q4 05 comes in February and the "final" in March.
I would be expecting a recession soon, regardless of peak oil and energy prices. People have been maintaining their consumption by borrowing against their houses and running up their credit card debt. Clearly, that cannot continue forever, especially now that interest rates are rising. And the expansion is now four years old; we're due for a contraction.
There may be a dead-cat bounce next quarter, but I think we're headed toward recession.
President Bush and the Republican Congress will probably do everything they can to boost the economy this year, heading into the midterm elections. (More hand-holding with Saudi princes, no doubt.) But I'm not sure there's much they can do. The red ink seems to be scaring even Bush these days, so I'm not expecting any more tax cuts.
Talk of recession (August 17, 2005).
Sorry.
However, I have seen comment that the recession definition may have been 'tweaked' so I don't know what the official US definition might be today.
There have also been major changes to the calculation of GDP happening steadily since 1984. If these changes (that is, the current method of calculation) are applied to historic GDP statistics calculations the US has not had a recession at all since the very early 1980s ;)
However, every time there has been a significant increase in the price of oil over a relatively short timescale (I think a 50% increase over 18 months or less is approximately the measure used) the US has entered recession - as defined at the time - within 2 years. Every time the US Fed has increased interest rates 7 or more times consecutively a recession has followed.
By "every" I mean on all occasions over the last 60 years, no exceptions. Since both these conditions are in current effect it would seem reasonable to expect a recession soon and somewhat irrational to believe one will not happen.
There will, almost inevitably, be significant interaction between peak oil and recession. My big fear is that there is a relatively mild global recession throughout 2007 pushing peak oil back a little then, as the world begins to grow out of recession in late 2008 or perhaps 2009, the world runs into oil supply turning down post peak.
The Tao knows this.
http://www.thebigview.com/tao-te-ching/
In real terms, our incomes have been dropping for years. Groceries, fuel for transportation and heating have been going up, while our "raises" have barely been covering the increases in benefits - that's if we have any benefits. Now the housing market is turning down. Consumers and worried, scared, and out of disposable income - the jig is up, and all the phony statistics in the world are not going to cover it up. As oil rises even further it's only going to get worse. I don't think it's bad enough yet for people to change their fundamental assumptions about how much oil they use, but spending is going to drop significantly. We'll see how that relates to demand destruction.
I expect the massive rebates the auto manufacturers offered have indeed sucked the pipeline dry, and that effected Q4, but I don't think they're coming back. I think the economy is toast.
Then I thought maybe January, which was the deadline. Nope. Still 1%. (Which is ridiculous, IMO.)
More! More!! Encore!!! <claps hands happily>
From Calculated Risk. Priceds (this is of new homes) peaked in September: they dropped in October, again in November, and again in December. The average price actually has dropped 10% in three months! That rather has the look of a trend, doesn't it? If we're hitting peak oil and the tipping point at the end of the housing bubble at the same time, does that mean inflation, or deflation?
My take is a housing crash could do enough economic harm that oil prices might actually drop as demand drops faster than supply.
Of course, if someone dies for oil in the interim, that is a high price to pay, as some accountants might admit, and then Matt Simmons wins his bet against Tierny regarding the highest "price" paid for oil between now and then.
That is falling oil prices in inflation adjusted money do not necessery equal the ability to buy the same ammount of oil as you used to do.
$40 (2006 dollars) oil in 2009 after 10% global economic downturn is not cheap oil.