Reserved For The Future

[editor's note, by Prof. Goose] This is a guest post by Mike Hearn.

In previous installments of what is becoming a potted series on economics, Stuart looked at interest, and I talked about demurrage, a kind of money tax that is designed to encourage long term thinking.

Some observers, on seeing the idea of negative interest/a money tax, remark that such a currency would have a hard time competing for users if it were to exist in a free market of currencies as it would be less desirable to hold than a currency that became more valuable over time.

Others point out that it's unlikely such a radical change could be brought about short of revolution. In these uncertain times nothing should be discounted but it is probably more profitable to look at less radical alternatives.

There are various other proposals for economic reform. One which I quite like comes from the New Economics Foundation, whos reports are well worth reading if you're interested in environmental/sustainable economics. James Robertsons and Jospeh Hubers 100-page book, "Creating New Money: A Monetary Reform for the Information Age", proposes some changes to our economies that could prove handy in a post peak oil world.

When I was young, I thought that money was important. Now that I am old I know it is. -- Oscar Wilde

Before we can understand this solution, we need to look at the problem.

The previous posts have dealt primarily with interest, the payment of which encourages conversion of assets into currency, and the charging of which encourages competition and growth. This is not always bad but for the case of renewable assets like forests, game reserves, farmland etc it can be problematic.

Does interest cause strife outside of clear-cutting a forest or two? Yes, it does. Last time I gave the parable of the Eleventh Round which boiled the situation down to its simplest form - when peoples money is backed by debt, paying off the interest on that debt can require either environmentally destructive expansion or for people turn on each other to get scarce currency.

The villagers ended up in this sad situation because of this part of the story:

"One more thing," the stranger added. "In one year's time I will return and I want each of you to bring me back an extra round, an eleventh round. That eleventh round is a token of appreciation for the technological improvement I just made possible in your lives."

In practice of course we don't have to show some mysterious stranger our gratitude for the existence of money. In practice, we have to service interest charges on bank loans. It may appear that this only affects people who are actually in debt to a bank, but that's not correct because at heart

Money Is Debt

Map of countries by external debt in $US, from CIA factbook, accessed April 2006.

I called that out because it's vital to understanding our problem and where we go now. The bank notes in your pocket literally represent the debt of somebody else. If everybody in the world were to pay off all their debts, money would simply disappear with a giant sucking noise.

Loans and Profits

It works this way because of how money is created. Intuitively, when the money supply needs to be increased you would expect the government to run the printing presses and minting machines to produce lots of coins and notes, which it could then spend into circulation.

In practice, only about 3% of the money in circulation was created this way. The rest was simply magicked into existence via the fractional reserve system. This system is ridiculously convoluted and not something I want to go into here, suffice it to say that new money is created mostly by commercial banks in the form of interest-bearing bank loans. These loans are not simply re-distributing wealth, rather they are based on the assumption that not everybody will try and withdraw their deposits at once. Legally, banks can therefore lend out more money than they actually have on deposit and rely on statistics to make it all work - the exact amount they can lend is governed by the reserve ratio, normally around 10% but in some cases (such as with the Bank Of England) it's not public and varies between commercial banks.

The ability to simply create money can obviously be enormously profitable, and the profit created like this is called seigniorage, defined as "The profit that results from the difference in the cost of printing money and the face value of that money." In other words, if you printed $100 at a cost of $30 (running the presses) the seigniorage profit would have been $70. Because in the 21st century money is usually issued electronically - at zero cost - this results in pure profit for the issuing institution.

It is private commercial banks keeping the seigniorage money that most concerns Robertson and Huber, and they estimate that it causes about $115 billion/year to be cornered by the private banks in the USA (about £42 billion, or 12p on income tax in the UK). They suggest that as money is a public good, the benefits from issuing it should also be used for the public good and re-allocated to the government, and they propose a mechanism for doing so in which the ancient fractional reserve system is replaced by a much simpler and more direct system.

But the injustice of the current money supply mechanism is not relevant to us here at The Oil Drum, except perhaps that a wise government could use the money to mitigate the effects of peak oil. We are more interested in questions like

  • Does this change improve our long term thinking? ... and ...

  • Does this change fix the need of our economy to constantly grow?

The latter question is especially relevant because in a post peak-oil scenario it is possible - even likely - that our economy will not be growing and actually will need to shrink. Unfortunately the money needed to pay the interest on the loans that summon money into existence requires the constant creation of yet more money, which combined with a shrinking economy will lead to significant levels of inflation - perhaps even trigger hyperinflation.

So? Does their proposal do these things? Yes ... I believe it does. Here's why.

Seigniorage reform

The basic idea is to end the system whereby money is backed by personal debt, and replace it with debt free money.

Ben Bernanke
US Federal Reserve

Currently, central banks try to control the money supply through a variety of indirect means. The ultimate lever is the interest rates charged on bank loans - as it gets higher less borrowing and therefore less money creation goes on. As it gets lower more money is created as the number of loans issued goes up.

If this sounds rather imprecise, well, you'd be right. It's widely agreed amongst economists that altering the interest rate will alter the rate of borrowing and therefore increase in the money supply. But how quickly does that take effect? And by how much? What if people don't respond rationally to higher interest rates? Answering these questions is still largely a guessing game.

Robertson and Huber propose a much simpler system, in which the central banks decide by how much the money supply should be changed according to monetary policy (the details can be found in his report and this is just a summary). If the money supply should grow (normal in a growing economy) then the new money is simply issued to the government in the form of a grant. Literally, it is summoned into existance through the will of the monetary policy committee. The government then spends this into circulation - either by using it as a form of revenue to fund public services, or simply distributing it evenly throughout the economy to avoid creating "inflation ripples". Meanwhile, the right of the commercial banks to issue debt-backed money is revoked and the supply of such money gradually phased out.

The more interesting thing is what happens if the central bank decides the money supply should become steady or shrink. Under the present system the only recourse would be to raise interest rates by a huge amount to try and compel the banks to slow borrowing - unfortunately as Stuart has demonstrated this could be rather unlucky for the poor forests (assuming a commensurate rise in interest rates for savers).

But after seigniorage reform, the money supply can be shrunk simply by either halting the flow of new money to the government (over a period of years to allow time for budgetary adjustments) and then by cancelling money raised from the economy via taxation. By using a more direct system, and by issuing money free of interest charges, there is no longer a constant need to grow the economy in order to pay back the interest on the currency. Because the people deciding how much to issue are independent of the government, the profit motive for over-issuing currency is eliminated. It becomes possible to shrink the money supply without triggering collapse.

The proposed system has many other benefits, and I've chosen to only look at economic stability in a steady-state or shrinking world. If you want to learn more I'd definitely suggest the report, it's quite easy to read even for non-economists.

The author of this post is not a professional economist. Take all this with the requisite pinch of salt.
Hello Mike Hearn,

This appears to be brilliant thinking, but I need to read the 100 page report, and I will, before responding further.

My question is:  How can we convine TPTB to accept this change as it represents the loss of the present economic system of 'something for nothing'; the loss of the easy path of idle wealth from collecting interest and seigniorage?

Bob Shaw in Phx,Az  Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

Who are "TPTB"? The only people who need to be convinced technically are politicians and central bankers.

The losers in the new system are private bankers, but that's OK because they would still make plenty of money - banking is a very profitable business even without seigniorage. No well run bank will go bust because of this change, especially as it would take years to phase in.

This is interesting.  So you only have to convince the Politicians who are puppets of the "central bankers" who got to own said politicians by the current fractional reserve system.  Ya that should be no problem...

==AC

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was every invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin. Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in . But if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit."
~Sir Josiah Stamp, president of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920's, speaking at the University of Texas in 1927

Hello Mike Hearn,

TPTB = the powers that be

The elite topdogs that have the greatest control and power.

Bob Shaw in Phx,AZ  Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

Who are "TPTB"?

Methinks the greatest problem is that the whole of TPTB are NOT specific people or organisations as such, public or private, but that a lot of the insane behaviors we are witnessing comes from systemic effects.
That is, all players looking for their "obvious" immediate interests give rise to "emergent" nasty results which are NOT the goals of anyone.
There is no point trying to put all or most of the blame on these or those players in spite of the evidence that some are truly "evil".
Even the evil ones are not "in control" and most often shoot themselves in the foot in the long run.
This is just our simplistic "paranoid monkeys" strategies at work, getting rid of the "bad guys" will cure all.
NO CHANCE to nip evil by a "war" on anything.
The enemy is us!

Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain.

Friedrich Schiller

"TPTB" =

  1. The Fortune 500,

  2. Companies such as Halliburton, Lockhead Martin, General Motors, Ford, Raytheon, Saudi Aramco, etc.

  3. Families such as the Bushes, the Kennedys, the Rockefellars, the Carnagies, the upper tiers of the Saudi Royal family etc.
Hello AMPOD,

Exactly!  This 'humanimal ecosystem' is no different than  than a comparable ecosystem in Nature, except animals compete, our topdogs can purposely choose to cooperate for advantage.  Natural keystone species like lions, elephants, hyenas, crocs, hippos, etc all contend for comparative advantage; a 'tight' feedback loop develops to maintain a rough equilibrium.

The topdogs you listed above can create coalitions to vastly elevate their powers.  Imagine if the real crocs and lions formed a coalition to ease their mutual harvesting of prey.  The lions would drive the game into the water where the crocs are plentiful, and in exchange, the crocs wouldn't attack the lions, and share half the kill.  Both get very fat and happy with a much reduced mutual effort.  Of course, the wildebeest, zebras, and other animals won't be very happy about the 'team effort' results.

OPEC, and the TX RR Commission were/are team efforts in the energy field.  The IMF, World Bank, and various country  federal banks could be another organization.  The CFR, Bilderbergers, etc could be another.  But it is next to impossible to determine how much shared cooperation exists among all these entities, over and above the mutual desire to generate profits.  Recall that Jay Hanson said that wordless cooperation can be signaled by body language alone-- no records and nothing to prosecute against.

Bob Shaw in Phx,AZ  Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

With respect, this is a mere regurgitation of the Social Credit concept of the 30's that comes up in hybrid form every five or ten years.  It has zero merit and has not checks and balances and hence would have drastic affects on our present floating currency exchange system.  It's opening and closing the door on new money is plainly "fiscal policy" is disguise.

If nations don't borrow their funds in transparency and provide annual financial statements, the currency plummets.

In short, no country can employ "printing presses" w/o dire consequences on the int'l stage.  Use metacrawler.com or your fav search engine to query "social credit" for in depth critiques.  If it sounds too good to be true...

Agreed.  
Freddy,
Can I ask you a couple of high level questions?

  1.  Do you believe that economic growth can continue indefinately?

  2.  If not, do you believe that a debt-based currency system forces short-term decisions to maintain economic growth without regard to long-term consequences?
We need more thinking along the lines of #2.  Would exchange rates be less incidental if all countries abandoned debt created cash?
In an ideal world in equilibrium ... yes.  But presently, leveraging of money affords nations to implement social and infrastructure program spending that prevents revolution within their growing populations.  Once a country attains status quo, they can be more frugal.  Canada has proved it.
Hi Jason.  Long time, eh.  I have long been a proponent of the concept that GDP need not have positive growth in national or regional economies with an ageing population (i.e. Japan, Florida, West Vancouver).  What is more important for a jurisdiction is to maintain positive cash flow; and stay away from deficit budgeting.  Canada didn't have the mini recession that u had in y2k/2001, but your businesses that went thru that one and the previous two learned that getting lean and mean and having postive P&L's was more important than higher and higher revenues.  It's the bottom line that counts... not the top one.

In North America, we have two decades 'til we reach the aged population of japan.  Italy and Germany are much closer.  For the most part, a larger GDP affords the wages for growing labour force.  By 2050, most nations will see that growth naturally extinquished.  And the Main stream media (msm), politicians, pundits and especially economists must learn that Recession is NOT A DIRTY WORD.

On your second question, first past the post (fptp) electoral system in north america and the uk is the scourge of good long term planning and economic strategies.  Legislators at all levels from municipal to Fed'l are always cognizant of the next Election and ramifications of their voting pattern.  They face tough decisions on sustainable economies, social programs, health care, safety nets, pensions and the environment.  We knew ten years ago that we had to go back to nuclear but it was not sexy to say that before ballot day.

OTOH, concensus gov't often gives bad legislation too due to lack or knowledge resources for good planning.

Deficit Borrowing in the 70's & 80's was for the most part disgusting but did serve the purpose of implementing a more social conscious agenda that was permeating the West and funded infrastructure for the Baby Boom ... schools, colleges, universities, subdivisions, plazas, urban growth in general.  But you can't do it forever and few countries are following our (keynesian) lead in Canada to sock money away in the good times.  We have had 8 successive annual surplus budgets and have paid down our nat'l debt by 12%.  Part of our good fortune is that we are the main exporter of gas and oil to the USA and we luv it when u want to pay $12 for nat'l gas or $75 for oil when our cost of production has virtually not moved in 24 months.

There are norms for federal, state/prov & municipal jurisdictions on the acceptable level of debt to GDP and deficit to GDP.  Staying within the norms on the short and medium term will allow their govt's freedom and flexibility.  Long term continuation will mean currency deterioration, deferred infrastructure mainenance and/or an approaching wall of taxation or privatization of their assets.

Inflation used to save individuals and jurisdictions from bad planning.  It was the grand forgiver.  But that is a concept of the past.  Central banks will not let us go down that path anymore.  Those who try pay the consequences badly (e.g. Argentina).

There are no empirical examples of g-20 nations that abide by conventional norms of implementing fiscal and monetary policy that face a debt wall.  No collapses.  Not one.  If a g-20 nation fell, it was due to other political circumstances ... not economic.

Some will point to Argentina.  But they skoffed and long term debt agreements and went short term while increasing deficits, taxation laxness and poor tax collection.  And the holders of their notes refused to renew for further terms.  Expecially when Argentian ignored IMF guidance.  They paid the price for their cockiness and a try at something outside the norms...

It is not.

It has zero merit and has not checks and balances and hence would have drastic affects on our present floating currency exchange system.

The system is a simplification of what we use today: independent central banks decide monetary policy and try to control the amount of money in the system - independent of government.

This proposal does not imply that politicians can choose how much money to pump into the economy. That decision is still in the hands of the central bankers: just as it (mostly) is today.

In fact this system is more accountable, because central bankers are merely well paid to manage the economy, there is no personal profit motive for them to inflate the money supply unlike with private bankers who are always under the so-called "moral hazard".

The report does discuss why this would not lead to runaway inflation. I suggest you read it.

Sorry Mike, but if your whole premise is that central bankers of the world are puppets of the five big banks and they in turn are run by David Eckes lizard aliens, there is not much to discuss.  The bulk of the Fed's profits are returned to the Treasury.  Each April they make annual reports to Congress on their profit in the marketplace and how much (insignificant) was distributed to the private members.
Either you're confused or I'm confused, or we both are.

if your whole premise is that central bankers of the world are puppets of the five big banks and they in turn are run by David Eckes lizard aliens, there is not much to discuss.

Er, where did I say that? I said that because private bankers can create money they have a strong profit motive to do so, regardless of what is good for the economy.

Central bankers today try and control that via interest rates, but interest rate adjustments only indirectly affect the demand side - and banks can use other tricks to make loans more attractive again to offset the higher rates.

Each April they make annual reports to Congress on their profit in the marketplace and how much (insignificant) was distributed to the private members.

Central bank profit has nothing to do with this. The large profits are being made by private banks who capture the seigniorage revenue.

"Sorry Mike, but if your whole premise is that central bankers of the world are puppets of the five big banks and they in turn are run by David Eckes lizard aliens, there is not much to discuss. "

What an asshole.  Someone offers a different view and you lump him in with David Icke [correct spelling BTW].  What kindergarten tactics...

==AC

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Holy crap!!! I feel like I'm in fifth grade again...

You are either the pot or the kettle.

I meant to start that post out by asking "Who said this?" "The LOl ... Holy crap" line is from Angry Chimp who I thought showed no patience with a competing argument.
"So our money is not as ephemeral as this makes it sound. Those dollar bills are very real claims on someone's land. It's diffuse, so you can't say specifically which piece of which person's land, but collectively the money is backed in this way. The money doesn't just appear out of thin air the way the author describes it."

It was in response to this comment.

BTW

I like to be the kettle...

==AC

Freddy,

The American currency--paper dollars or electronic dollars credited to bank accounts--is created at will by a privately owned organization called the United States Federal Reserve.[1]  The Federal Reserve creates money to lend to the US government at interest--and the US Treasury packages this debt as an "asset."

It's the current system that lacks checks and balances. Rules that once exists are broken down in the name of free markets.  The collapse of the gold standard, for example. I would like to know the current M3 figures. And you only have to look at the huge twin deficit of the USA to know that the exchange system isn't working.

In the name of National security, company's traded at the New York stock exchange can be allowed to report incorrect number. [Intelligence Czar Can Waive SEC Rules. Now, the White House's top spymaster can cite national security to exempt businesses from reporting requirements http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/may2006/nf20060523_2210.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily, ]

<snip> President George W. Bush has bestowed on his intelligence czar, John Negroponte, broad authority, in the name of national security, to excuse publicly traded companies from their usual accounting and securities-disclosure obligations. Notice of the development came in a brief entry in the Federal Register, dated May 5, 2006, that was opaque to the untrained eye. <end snip>

For American middle class stocks are there retirement funds. The paradigma is that in the long rum they have to up. Why would a government allow companies these hidden numbers on balance sheets? Maybe to prevent another Enron to happen?

But central banks do think about a collapse of the worldwide banking system. And in the conclusive chapter of annual report of the Bank of International Settlements they speak of a "tipping point" in the world capacity to produce oil and commodities.

<snip page 141>
Again, there are considerable uncertainties. To be more pessimistic, if the global disinflationary effects of lower-priced goods from emerging economies have been underestimated, then the consequences of the waning of this influence could also be unexpected. In addition, there is a great deal of uncertainty as to whether the world has hit a "tipping point" in its capacity to supply more oil and commodities, with the implication that prices might stay higher for longer than has historically been the case. To be more optimistic, there are still many lower-cost jurisdictions in the emerging market economies, not least central and western China, and production will eventually move there as well. And advancing technology could well compensate for the increased difficulty of finding new reserves of commodities. Yet both of these adjustment processes will take time. Given current levels of global demand, the risk would be continuing inflationary pressures in the interim. Moreover, to the extent that the credibility of central bankers has been enhanced by the earlier, fortuitous circumstances, this credibility could also be tested. It would, of course, need to be vigorously defended.
What grounds are there for believing that "imbalances" pose a threat to the optimistic view looking forward? It is not hard to identify a large number of significant and sustained deviations from historical norms in important macroeconomic variables. However, concerns about disruptive reversions to more "normal" values have to be qualified to the extent that such deviations can be explained and justified as being of a lasting nature. Unfortunately, recourse to such "fundamentals" does not seem adequate to explain either the extent or the duration of the unusual circumstances currently being observed. This leaves room for a complementary explanation: these phenomena might be linked to there having been such abundant global liquidity over such a long period.
<end snip>

And the central banks do prepare themselves for collapse.  

<snip page 148>
Making such preparations in advance of trouble would complement the wide variety of other measures which have been taken over the years to improve the underlying health of financial institutions, markets, and payment and settlement systems. A more recent suggestion that merits greater attention is the possibility of setting up "off the shelf banks" in advance of difficulties. The idea is to establish a legal entity that would be able to assume, at very short notice, the vital functions of a failed financial institution and thus mitigate the knock-on effects of closure. This would be another way to limit regulatory forbearance, which has often been a problem in the past.
<end snip>

Or is this path another way to overcome check and balances?

----

Personally I don't think that USA invested money of collective retirement funds from the Netherlands or elsewhere will be paid back in the end. Beside agriculture, defense equipment, software and Hollywood, there isn't much industry left to payback. And you can't pluck a bald eagle.  

Time will tell, but I know that real wealth comes from nature.

Bart Blaauwendraad
The Netherlands

A cheetah can't spend more energy on finding it's preys than it's getting from them.
[1] In 1982 the US 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that:
"Examining the organization and function of the Federal Reserve Banks, and applying the relevant factors, we conclude that the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations."
JOHN L. LEWIS, Plaintiff/Appellant, vs. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Defendant/Appellee. 1982 No. 80-5905

Again we are bordering on a discussion that is based on urban legend, internet folklore and conspiracy theories.  When u understand that the Fed and their int'l counterparts are not the bad guyz, u will see that the checks and balances are in place and the last ten years have shown that they work impeccably thru each mini crisis that presents itself...
The checks and balances work until they don't. (We came close during the Long Term Capital Management fiasco.) How will the check and balances deal with peak oil, global warming, and the collapse of our infrastructure? If we don't start moving quickly toward sustainable energy management (conservation, renewable energy, control of population growth) it may well happen. Economics can't overturn the laws of physics.
Right on.  Seven billion souls use sh*tload of copper, aluminum, iron, water, fertilizer, wood, etc etc.  Oil does not have ownership of the Hubbert Curve.  It applies to almost all commodities and there are abstracts at the main ASPO site that show that there is no relation to passing peak and pricing.  Pricing is determined solely by annual supply and demand.  Demand destruction and alternatives products all factor in differently.  Since 2004 i have been a voice in the wilderness that shortages of commodities other than oil will haunt us more in the next two decades and we are in effect chasing the wrong rabbit.

Global commodities face peaks.  Some are trying to meaure it.  Methinx i saw one by the Ugo Bardi at the ASPO-5 english documents archive.  If and when i come across it again i'll send a link to this pdf.

Unfortunately it is discussions on sustainabiity that lead to all the die-off whacko's joining the thread and their glee to see the population down to 1 billion to better sustain those commodity reserves.  It can be a good discussion but their nihilistic rhetoric often taints the debate.

The most important commodity is the British Thermal Unit/Joule. It is what transforms all other commodities into the products and services we want. With enough energy all other shortages can be substituted for. Economic activity is only limited by the amount of solar energy our planet intercepts.
In my future history currency is based on warehouse receipts for liters of Everclear (lab alcohol). I've always thought that bottles of 190 proof vodka would be a convenient way to store joules.

Warehouse receipts make good money.

Your vodka warehouse better have a good fire suppression system or the backing for those reciepts could disappear very quickly. Everclear brings a new meaning to liquidity.
"When u understand that the Fed and their int'l counterparts are not the bad guyz"

Yes because when you finally understand that you truly will understand nothing at all and the world seems a much nicer place...

==AC

"As a teenager, I heard John Kennedy's summons to citizenship. And then, as a student at Georgetown, I heard that call clarified by a professor I had, named Carroll Quigley, who said that America was the greatest nation in history because our people have always believed in two great ideas: That tomorrow can be better than today and that each of us has a personal, moral responsibility to make it so."
~Bill Clinton, 1992

"[T]he powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country, and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion, by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences.
The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks, which were themselves, private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control, and use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups."
~Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time (New York: Macmillan, 1966) p.324

Buy it and READ it;
http://tinyurl.com/zs3jy

Sure they're not the bad guys ... just the mechanisms by which the concerted human efforts of this planet are directed through credit availability to selected parties. That doesnt make them bad guys right? They're just looking out for number one. And want to get something for nothing.

But never fear. When things get bad enough for Joe average he'll find more benefit from skirting the laws and using self regulated mutul credit systems to meet his daily needs, and to find himself useful employment.

Trouble will come when the banks of the dying paradigm try to enforce their land and mining rights claims.

If we're going to have a finance-y thread, some of you might like to check out this article at Slate about Citigroup's Geo-Political Risk Index - a composite of the following financial measures:

  • Stock price volatility index
  • Price of crude oil
  • Implied volatility of crude oil
  • U.S. Dollar Index
  • Two-year Treasury bond
  • An index of gold stocks

The historical series goes back to August 2001, and interestingly was going up steeply before 9/11 (and continued upwards for several weeks thereafter). It seems we've come DOWN to a plateau since the all-time high just before US forces entered Afghanistan.

http://www.slate.com/id/2146153/

Another interesting metric is volatility of the currency markets. Currency speculation is potentially quite destructive.
We destroyed Russia, I mean the ruble this way.
I think you need to explain and support that one. Sounds like pure speculation.
Go read up on Leo Wanta, the pumping of oil by the Saudi's to crash the oil price, and the US booby-trapped gas valve to get an idea on what tate423 is talking about.