Peak Oil and the Financial Markets: A Forecast for 2008
Posted by Gail the Actuary on January 9, 2008 - 11:32am
Topic: Economics/Finance
Tags: alan greenspan, government debt, peak oil [list all tags]
At this time of year, we read many financial forecasts for the year ahead. Nearly all of these are written with the "filter" assumption of infinite growth. "Oil production problems are a temporary issue; after a short dip, the economy is likely to continue growing rapidly again. We may have a short recession, but we will soon be back to business as usual." Etc.
I think this filter is fundamentally in error, and leads to a mistaken impression with respect to where the world is headed. The world is changing in a very major way. Oil is in short supply, and this shortage is likely to get larger in the future. The pressure of short supply and rising prices adds a systematic bias that the financial community is not recognizing. This bias has as its basis the fact that it is becoming more and more difficult for both people and businesses to pay back loans, because of the rising costs of oil and food. This situation cannot be expected to go away. In fact, it is certain to get worse in years ahead, as oil supplies become tighter.
Besides the systematic bias, there is also a systemic risk, arising from the interconnectedness of all of the parts of the economy. This was well described in a post a few days ago called The Failure of Networked Systems. One of the issues in systemic risk relates to the financial system itself. If one party in the financial system fails, it increases the likelihood that other parties in the economic system will fail as well.
Another aspect of systemic risk is the close ties of the financial system to the rest of the economy. One example is the higher oil and food prices mentioned above that lead to a systematic bias toward higher defaults. Another is the fact that the lack of oil can be expected to impede economic growth, making the infinite growth model underlying the current economic system less sustainable, based on the economic model of Robert Ayres and Benjamin Warr. Another linkage is that of oil with ethanol. Higher oil prices leads to increased pressure to produce more ethanol, which further raises food prices, as demonstrated by Stuart Staniford in Fermenting the Food Supply.
(More below the fold)
Background
First, some definitions to go with the introduction, above.
Systematic bias occurs in a system when a process favors a particular outcome. Instead of errors being random, they are consistent and repeatable. One example might be a thermometer that consistently reads high. In the economy, systematic bias occurs when loans experience a greater and greater tendency toward defaults, because of changes in the system (rising oil prices) since the time when the probability of default was originally estimated. As another example, rising oil prices can also cause profits of individual companies to grow more slowly than expected (relative to base period experience) because of a contraction in general economic growth.
Systemic risk is risk relating to the interconnectedness of the system. A push on one part of the system will lead to a pull on another part of the system, leading to unanticipated failures. As an example, the failure of one bank may lead to other banks failing, because of counter party risk. There is significant reason to believe that the interconnectedness of the system is increasing over time, as food becomes used as a fuel, and as financial products become more complex. See The Failure of Networked Systems.
The financial community has designed many models. Some of these are used by "quants" in pricing the newer sliced and diced financial products. Others are used by insurance companies in pricing the risk of defaults on bonds and on mortgages.
The assumption that is made in these models is that historic experience can be used, with only minor adjustments, as a guide for pricing current products. This approach fails to recognize the greater risk now entering the system, due to systematic bias because of rising oil prices, and due to greater systemic risk, because of greater interconnectedness.
One way of describing these models is to say that they assume that defaults are "independent events" -- that is, there is no systemwide bias that would cause more and more defaults. This assumption of independence keeps insurance prices low, and makes the slicing and dicing of packaged securities work. Clearly, with the systematic bias and systemic risk that is now infecting the financial system, these assumptions are no longer valid.
Closely related to the assumption that events are independent is the assumption that distributions are "normal" - that is that they follow the Gaussian distribution. Benoit Mandelbrot has shown in The (Mis)Behavior of Markets that the actual tails of distributions are much "fatter" than implied by the Gaussian distribution. The bias introduced by the oil situation makes the normal distribution even less appropriate. For example, with higher oil prices, the number of defaults on bonds will be much greater than would be predicted, if one simply assumes that a normal distribution applied to past experience will be predictive of future experience.
If one looks at financial theories like the Capital Asset Pricing Model and the Black and Scholes Option Pricing Model, one discovers that they assume normal distributions and statistical independence. These models were not quite right before, because the underlying distributions are not really normal, as shown by Mandelbrot. Now that systematic bias and systemic risk are playing greater roles, the predictive value they had previously can be expected to further decline.
What's ahead?
I don't think we can know precisely. In the material that follows, I give my views as to how the financial situation may unfold in the year ahead, taking into account the issues discussed above.
1. Many monoline bond insurers will be downgraded in 2008, and some may fail.
Bond and mortgage insurers are likely to have difficulty because these coverages are written with the assumption that past default experience can be used as a guide to needed prices. If there is a systematic bias toward higher defaults, as there is today, prices will be too low.
Once bond insurers lose their AAA ratings, their coverage will be of little value. Rating agencies will rate the bonds based on the financial standing of the organization issuing the bond, instead of imputing the insurer's credit rating to the bond. This could mean widespread downgrades of bonds.
Warren Buffet is starting a new bond insurer. Even if this insurer stays strictly with municipal bonds and charges higher rates, I question the long-term viability of the company. It will be difficult to charge a price in 2008 that will reflect the real risk of default five or ten years from now, when oil supply will be much tighter than today.
2. More and more people influential in financial markets will begin to recognize peak oil.
We have already seen how oil markets act differently, once the sellers of oil realize that peak oil is not far away. Sellers of oil become more aggressive and demand more favorable terms. They realize that they have leverage, and begin to use it.
In 2008, it seems likely to me that financial markets will begin to recognize peak oil as well. Leading economists are now speaking openly about peak oil. On December 15, 2007, the WSJ quoted Alan Greenspan as saying that oil supply peaked lower and sooner than had been contemplated earlier. The Toronto Star quoted Jeff Rubin, chief economist of CIBC World Markets, as saying, "I just don't think we're going to see increases in conventional oil production any more. I think (peak oil) is here." With economists like Greenspan and Rubin talking openly about peak oil, it seems likely that some financial decision-makers will start thinking about the implications of peak oil for loans and other financial products. This seems especially likely if oil production remains relatively flat or declines in 2008.
3. Long term loans, including those for energy companies, are likely to become less available as awareness of peak oil rises.
Once financial markets begin to recognize peak oil, I expect lenders will be more wary of long-term loans, because of uncertainty that these loans will be repaid once world oil production has begun to decline. Interest rates are likely to rise. Marginal borrowers may not be able to find credit at all. All of these effects are likely to make the gridlock in loans progressively greater over time.
The Fed may attempt to lower interest rates, but as defaults grow and lenders become more aware of peak oil, the risk margin for defaults included in interest rates will tend to rise. Thus, the actual interest rates charged to consumers and businesses may not decline, even when the Fed lowers target interest rates.
I don't expect the recognition of peak oil in financial markets to be complete in 2008, especially if a credit crisis causes oil prices to drop. Once peak oil is fully recognized though (most likely when its effects are very apparent, and mitigation is clearly not working), long-term debt may become unavailable, even for governments.
4. There is likely to be a serious recession in 2008, deepening as the year goes on.
Oil and food prices are likely to continue to rise, leaving consumers with less to spend on loan payments and consumer purchases. Interest rate resets will further exacerbate mortgage problems. Defaults on mortgages will increase, and there will be increasing problems on loans of all types--including student loans, credit card debt, auto loans, commercial mortgages, and other commercial loans. Eventually, problems will even spread to state and municipal bonds.
More and more businesses will encounter financial difficulties, leading to defaults on loans. The failing businesses will lay off workers.
With declining home values, tax revenues for municipalities are likely to fall. This may lead to cutbacks in spending, furthering the economic contraction. It also increases the likelihood of defaults on municipal bonds.
5. At least several large banks will fail.
With bond and mortgage insurance downgrades and failures, and more and more defaults on loans of all types, it seems likely that many banks will get into financial difficulty. The FDIC and other government agencies will attempt to solve these problems, but it is not clear that they will be successful. One approach may be to relax capital requirements. Another may be to find a temporary way of valuing loans that does not fully reflect the extent of their problems.
At some point, the FDIC is likely to have to make good on its promised insurance coverage ($100,000 on most accounts, $250,000 on IRA accounts). The FDIC collects insurance premiums from the banks it insures, but if many banks fail, the FDIC does not have enough funds in its account to reimburse bank depositors at the guaranteed level.
I expect that some way around this difficulty will be found--for example, the FDIC may be allowed to borrow an unlimited amount with US government backing. This approach requires willing buyers for the new debt. Another approach might be to use monetary policy to make certain that banks have enough funds to cover withdrawals, even though they appear bankrupt. Either approach would likely be inflationary.
6. The amount of debt available to consumers is likely to decline.
To date, most of the decline in the availability of consumer debt has been in the area of mortgage loans. I expect that during 2008, the availability of other consumer debt will shrink as well. Part of the decline in debt availability is likely to be the direct result of rising default rates. The weakened financial condition of banks is also likely to reduce credit availability. With falling capital, banks will be less able to make loans and may tighten standards on loans they do make. Consumers with credit cards may find their debt limits rolled back. Home equity loan limits may also be lowered.
There is also a possibility that a large bank that issues many credit cards will get into financial difficulty. If this happens, it is not clear that a new lender will be found to issue credit cards to all of the previous card holders. FDIC insurance relates to deposits, not to credit availability, so there is no guarantee of a new credit card. Some individuals, particularly those with poor credit ratings, may find themselves being required to pay off old credit card debt, without any new source of credit.
7. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may need government assistance.
With rising default rates, the troubles of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are likely to continue. Both are likely to find it difficult to maintain adequate capital, and may need some sort of government intervention, if only to allow them to operate with less capital.
8. A new class of homes -- those "never to be sold" -- will emerge.
In 2008, the pool of buyers for homes is likely to become smaller, in part because of the shift away from the lax lending standards of the recent past. If prospective homeowners are required to prove adequate income to afford the homes they are purchasing, many people will qualify for a much smaller home, or none at all.
As peak oil becomes more apparent, this will further reduce the number of prospective homeowners. One reason is that people will be less able to travel to a summer or winter home, so will need only a single residence, instead of both a summer and winter residence. Another reason is with the high cost of heating oil, gasoline and food, there will be a greater incentive for extended families to live together.
The problem with selling the current number of homes to a progressively smaller number of prospective buyers is that some homes will not find buyers in any reasonable time frame. Some will eventually be torn down, often after being vandalized. As long as mortgages remain readily available, there is a fairly easy way around this difficulty. A prospective seller can take out the maximum mortgage available on a property, before putting it up for sale. Then, if no buyer can be found, the seller can cut his/her losses by mailing the keys to the mortgage company.
I expect that in the next year or two, mortgage companies will begin to realize that homeowners can use mortgages to cut their losses when selling a home. Because of this, I expect that mortgage companies will begin requiring at least a 20% down payment that on home purchases. Those refinancing homes will be limited to a total loan of 80% of the home's value. These practices are likely to further reduce the pool of prospective homeowners, making the sale of homes even more difficult.
9. Politicians will continue to make attempts to help homeowners, and perhaps other types of borrowers.
With rising interest rates, a declining economy, and tighter lending standards, it is unlikely that all the homes that have been built can remain occupied unless the government somehow allows people to remain in homes they cannot afford. If homes are remain unoccupied, there is of course the chance that they will be vandalized, and high-value materials removed.
Government "help" may even spread to other types of loans, such as college loans that cannot be repaid, due to unemployment. All of this government intervention is likely to make purchasers of debt securities very unhappy.
10. The amount of structured (sliced and diced) debt issued is likely to drop to close to zero.
During 2008, it will become increasingly clear that structured debt has too many problems to be a viable method for transferring debt from the issuer to multiple buyers. The mis-pricing noted at the beginning of this article is likely to become more apparent during 2008. This will add to the structured debt's other problems, including lack of front-end underwriting, optimistic bond ratings, high system costs, and reduced yields due to government intervention to help borrowers.
11. Besides banks, many other players in financial markets are likely to find themselves in financial difficulty in 2008.
Besides banks, financial markets include hedge funds, money market funds, insurance companies, pension funds and many special-purpose funds. I would expect difficulties to spread to many of these organizations, for a variety of reasons:
• The value of bonds and of structured debt held by these organizations is likely to decline, as more businesses and individuals have financial difficulty. Also, sales of securities during 2008 will help clarify the true value of some securities. Organizations will be forced to reflect market value, as it becomes clear.
• Credit ratings of many securities are likely to decline, because of financial difficulties of the companies issuing bond insurance. (See Point 1 above.) Insurance companies in particular are likely to find that some bonds no longer meets regulatory requirements. These will need to be sold, often at fire sale prices.
• Sellers of Credit Default Swaps (CDS) are likely to experience large losses. CDSs act like insurance policies against bond defaults. Organizations issuing CDSs have not charged enough to cover the type of systemic increase in risk that is now occurring. Organizations issuing CDSs are likely to find themselves with large losses. Purchasers of CDSs will often find that sellers are not able to make good on their promises.
• Debt is likely to be less available, or available at higher interest rates. Organizations using leverage, such as hedge funds, may find it difficult to maintain the same level of debt, and may even be forced to sell some of their assets, because of the lower availability of credit.
If some of these organizations fail, the extent to which government intervention can be expected is not clear. There is no particular reason to expect government intervention for hedge funds or money market funds. Pension funds and insurance companies have some types of guarantees, but the programs are not set up to handle multiple large failures.
12. The value of the dollar will fall relative to some currencies, causing the relative price of oil to rise.
I expect that Saudi Arabia and other oil-producing Middle Eastern countries will revalue their currencies relative to the dollar, causing the value of the dollar to decline. Because of this revaluation, the cost of oil will rise, despite the sharp economic downturn.
It is not as clear to me how the US dollar will fare relative to other currencies. Europe, Japan, and Canada are likely to have economic difficulties of their own relating to peak oil and to the falling value of homes. The shift among these currencies may be relatively smaller. I would expect the value of the dollar to fall relative to Chinese currency, given China's ability to use coal to produce exports.
13. The stock market probably will decline during 2008.
The combination of a recession and higher interest rates on corporate debt seems likely to result in a serious downturn in stock market values. Financial services companies particularly are likely to do poorly. There is still some possibility of an increase in stock market values, however, because of the large amount of "recycled oil" payments and the inflationary impact of additional governmental debt and lax monetary policy.
14. Prices are likely to rise in 2008 for food and energy products. Prices may decline for homes and non-essential goods and services.
Americans will find that more and more of their income is devoted to food and energy, leaving less for non-essential goods and services and debt payments. This same situation will exist in many countries around the world.
15. There is a chance that some type of discontinuity will make financial conditions suddenly take a turn for the worse.
Will the "wheels come off the economy"? I really don't know.
I think that there are a few things that may help prevent a major disruption during 2008.
First, things tend to happen fairly slowly. The economy has a fairly large amount of momentum, and this will tend to keep things at the current level. It will take a period of months for bond ratings to be lowered, and for this information to filter back to the balance sheets of banks and insurance companies. If some of the bond and mortgage insurers are actually insolvent, this will take even longer to sort out. Some of the potential problems I have alluded to may not appear until 2009 or later.
Second, regulators of various types have the power to change the rules as they go along. Regulators have the ability to overlook non-performing loans, and to lower capital requirements. They can lend money to banks, using as collateral securities most people would consider to be junk. They can create at least a certain amount of new money. In some cases, congressional approval may be required for these approaches, but if the alternative is banks and other businesses failing, congress is likely to go along with any proposed bailout plan.
Third, in order to keep things going, what is needed is to keep cash inputs and outputs working. To a significant extent, the problems we are having are balance sheet problems -- values of assets and values of liabilities. I expect to see more of what the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is currently doing - paying benefits, even though liabilities are greater than assets. It may be possible to delay facing the truth a bit longer by optimistically valuing assets, using high discount rates on liabilities, and focusing on cash needed for today's transactions.
Eventually, it seems like something will happen to stop the parade. One possibility is that the United States will no longer find buyers for all the debt it issues. This will probably not happen until there is a general recognition of peak oil. Another is that financial system failures cascade in such a way that it is not possible to continue propping up the system. Another is that hyperinflation will take over. While one of these, or something else adverse may happen, I don't know that such an event will necessarily happen very soon.
Why is information about the financial system important to oil companies, and other companies in the energy field?
Having a functioning financial system is very important from the point of view of our oil production and distribution system. Oil companies need to be able to pay their workers. They need to be able to borrow money to start new projects. They need be able to make contracts with other companies for necessary services, like hiring drilling rigs. They need to be able to purchase oil from overseas, and to be able to pay for it using transaction methods that are not too disrupted. All of these may be problems, if there are too many bank failures, or other serious issues with the financial system. This has the potential to create a negative feedback mechanism which will further limit oil supply.



Home Prices Must Fall Far to Be In Sync With Rents
The original article (as well as the data) can be found here:
http://morris.marginalq.com/
According to this model, it could take us up to 5 years to come back from this housing indigestion!
The rent-buy spread is out of whack for sure. Around here (close-in to transit and walkable community) they are building apartments in anticipation of rents remaining strong or increasing.
For a list of projects under construction/just approved see
http://www.arlingtonvirginiausa.com/index.cfm/5231
This is in a pretty small area (Arlington is the smallest county in the US I think)
I am interested in this because lots of people with money are making long term investments here and banks are lending here - right now. So, either everybody is making foolish decisions or it tells a different story at least in this local area.
The assumption is probably that the US government will continue BAU, and therefore even if the price of oil stays where it is (as unlikely as we can see that assumption may be), the local economy will continue running.
Conventional wisdom.
House prices are twice what they should be, given rents.
Therefor house prices will fall by half.
Unconventional wisdom.
What if rents fall? We could be forced by a falling dollar to go into import substitution mode and essentially require people to move to primary and secondary production areas like Michigan and Wyoming to have well paying jobs, the way we required them to leave Michigan and Wyoming and move to the metrocoastal areas during the service economy.
So rents could fall in the metrocoastal areas, leading house prices to adjuct not just down to the current rent, but to the future, lower rent.
House prices after inflation could go all the way back to the early sixties, when short order cooks in diners could afford to buy a starter house for a small family with a ten percent down payment and a twenty year term.
Happy Days Are Here Again, at least for short order cook type people. If you've got money that is invested in housing, or offices, or retail, or whatever in a metrocoastal environment, you could be in for a world of hurt. Some short order cook's family could be living in your house while you are living in his family's apartment.
Ahh but your assuming wages will remain high. They probably will fall as well. Given this you probably will see more housing broken up into apartments as happened to the large homes built in the 1800-1920 boom period. And yes we had a 70 year boom once before. During the first boom expansion into the west and land wealth where the primary driving force. The fairly low density of the suburban housing could probably be rectified with additional infill housing and extensions. Many homes could be converted to small businesses. I don't think you will see happy days but a demographic reversal the wealthy will move closer to work/downtown instead of paying high gas prices. The poor will be relegated to slums outside the cities. This is the demographics of basically all major metropolitan areas in the third world.
The problem is the McMansions are simply not worth maintaining and rents will be following real wages down.
Yes. Those ratios in the graph are so low they must be comparing dissimilar properties. You have to compare apples vs apples. For example the rent on a 3/2 1500 sq ft SFR in a good neighborhood versus the price of same. For prospective landlords, normal property pricing gives you a gross annual ROI of 10% to 12%. You need this much cash flow to pay for the property manager, taxes, insurance, and maintenance and still have a return better than bonds to compensate for the risk and worry of managing property. I find the misleading suggestion that landlords have never earned over 6% annual gross ROI in the last 48 years absurd in the extreme.
The problem since 2002 has been that rental property purchases became a Ponzi scheme driven by speculative greed. Stupid people bought properties that were "negatively geared". By this I mean that the rental income didn't even cover the costs of holding the property. In extreme cases, the rental income didn't even pay the taxes and insurance, much less provide any return on capital (if purchased with cash) or pay the mortgage (if purchased with debt, which is much more common). The whole business plan devolved into hoping to quickly flip the properties for a capital gain. Well, now the music has stopped.
So when should a renter stop renting and buy? Buying makes sense if one has adequate assets or a secure stable income AND the neighborhood is not deteriorating, AND one plans to live there for several years AND the cost of purchase is less than 120 months rent. These conditions are not met in most parts of the western world at the moment. I am currently renting a 2000 sq ft 4/2 new brick SFR in a good walkable neighborhood of New Zealand for USD 1300/month. If I wanted to buy the house, the price would be 320 months rent. The price needs to fall over 60% before buying makes any economic sense. Of note, this is the exact inverse of the 150% house price appreciation over the last 4 years. The entire easy credit driven property price bubble will be reversed.
The same logic applies to prospective landlords. In New Zealand, risk free six month government bonds pay 7.5%. Bank CDs pay over 9% (although banks can fail). There will be absolutely no reason for investors to purchase rental properties until the annual gross rental income is well over 10% ROI. The nimrod investors sitting on negatively geared properties with sub 4% yields will be unable to unload these albatrosses for what they paid for them. Couldn't happen to nicer people.
My only worry is having to move if the bank forecloses on my Donald Trump wannabe landlord. Then I would get a new rental house from another insolvent fracked borrower/failed flipper landlord, another possible foreclosure, rinse and repeat. Well that is still better than buying and taking a capital loss of USD 75,000 every year for the next four years.
Hey Micro,
Thanks for this clear headed strategy.
A young colleague of mine is now in the unenviable position of deciding whether to risk his entire savings in the purchase of his first house. However his pre approved credit standing of last year no longer qualifies him since this year Michigan real estate is now considered a declining market by lending institutions.
After only a year on the job, producing 20% of the down payment, on top of student loans, is quite a tall order.
I never give financial advice since I can barely manage my own but I can show him your excellent analysis guilt free!
Thanks too to Gail for her incisive forecast.
It takes more than a bit of courage to offer, in uncertain times, specific views of the future.
Nicely put, Microhydro.
However, you are comparing rental yields of less than 4% with NZ bond rates of 7.5%. Let's say you can get 8% at a decent NZ bank. That's today's rate. What's it likely to be in 2012?
Gail is suggesting that banks will become more and more risk adverse, and thus presumablly will also being offering higher interest rates in order to attract cash to shore up reserves.
I recall that in Australia in the early 90s you could get 12% on a term deposit. Suppose those days come around again? If your choice is between 12% interest from a bank or buying a house and then trying to find good tennants in the middle of a depression, you are probably going to want a 12%-15% gross rental yield. Which would suggest house prices at a quarter of today's level.
To those who say it can't happen - look at Japan. A country giving a good impersonation of a market that will stay dead for a generation.
I think you also have the issue of the empty or abandoned homes. I think we are already seeing stories of people taking up residence in them. Poor folks who cannot afford the rent may be able to drop out of the rent-paying system.
Well, I hate to burst *your* bubble, while the housing bubble fails to bust, meaning it's only fissling out a little air..
The above chart, in and of itself shows NOTHING. Sorry - instead, it has to be compared to interest rates. Just like stock valuation is a function of what one can get in interest on the market...
1st, interest rates:

Does the curve seem familiar??
2nd, let's superimpose interest with rent returns:
In order to try to figure out what "normal" is, let's say that interest rates and rents were "normal" during the middle of the 1990s and superimpose the two graphs again:
Conclusion: Housing in America is NOT that much overpriced. Falling rent rates (and rising house prices) are much a result of the semi price deflationary environment we are in.
Cheers, Dom
ps. The scenario which Gale is presenting WILL NOT happen in 2008. Bubbles will only burst, once liquidity dries up. Does that look like it has happened recently?
Guys, please read Clif
And weep at how wrong you are.
Dom, please read Mish,
Money Supply Trends Are Deflationary
and see how wrong you are.
had read it, wasn't convinced.
Oddly enough, Clif failed to bring tears to my eyes. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water, and all that.
:-)
I've been following the argumentation of the bears since long before the height of the dot.com boom. Since 2003 I've been following the real estate bubble. Told my brother to sell his apt. in DC after doubling price in just two years WAY too early. But that's no problem, cause you can hardly ever catch the peak of any bubble.
Wondered with Thurow SIX YEARS AGO, when the American house of cards (deficite spending, zero savings, etc..) is going
to crash and burn. Now I know why America's deficite spending, etc.. will continue to work for a good while !!!
Found McKillop 4 years ago - he said price rises in oil are GOOD for the overall economy (where there are most certainly losers). And what has happen in the last 4 years???
Peak Oil will be a real problem for America and the world. But not until production fall more than 1-2% per year. My analysis goes deap and can hardly be explained on the quick.
But my conclusion is: America's problems *probably* won't really start for another couple of years. Comparing now to the 1970s, we haven't even reached 1973, let alone the recesion of 1980..
Cheers from Munich,
Dom
McKillop said that within limits higher oil prices are GOOD for the overall economy. I don't have specific links, but as I recall his analysis led him to posit that around $100/bbl we would see the breaking point at which the benefits of higher price began to give away to the overall pressure that peak oil would exert on worldwide economy. Guess what???
I have never been impressed with Cliff Droke.
and if *I* recall correctly, his "within limits" had nothing to do with an absolute price, but with a shock or no shock. There has been no shock. Just price movement within a rising channel (left and came back in).
For me its obvious. High or rising resource prices make money flow - first to those who have the resources, but then to all the countries in the way of the flowing money. The end of the river is the US once again. The Euro-pond is not big enough to soak it all up yet, and that's why the Euro has been rising.
It is a ponzi game and will crash. But I think we're still a couple of years away. Unless, of course, there is some sort of shock. And I don't think this "housing bust" in slow motion is going to do the job - especially if the idea of bad valuation (see graphs above) doesn't stick. Rents are absolutely lower - but not relatively!!
No one said you have to like Clif.
But here's the point of Contrarian thinking: If the whole world is wining about the stock markets about to crash, and only a correction of 10% is in the game, then obvious the market does not agree with the "fear in the air". If everyone is saying it will fall, and it doesn't, then it will rise!
But this is only one very small part of the puzzle. After this decade, for instance, demographics are going to hit America like a sledge hammer! And like I'll say again and again, falling oil production of 1-2% will take a long time to do its damage. 4% (what I think will be after about 2015) will be another sledge hammer!
FWIW..
Greetings from Munich,
Dom
The problem arises when the cost of "investing" in a property is way beyond the income available. It appears that many of the creative mortgages involved fraud, and there is simply no way of paying back the borrowed money or intent to do so. Hence, the destruction of credit- deflation.
The rent/price ratio is fairly reliable as it adjusts for both price and wage inflation- of which there has been remarkably little.
...According to this model, it could take us up to 5 years to come back from this housing indigestion!
I would offer that since we are past peak, all Models of what it "Historically" (via charts, cycles, etc) are nearly completely worthless. I view peak oil as basically "The End of Growth" period.
There won't be a "Coming Back From" in this. Not for a long long while. Ever since the Financial Graphs with their various business cycles, ran into the Graphs of Post Peak Oil, ALL Traditional Financial graphs are suspect of a basic flaw of paradigms.
Post Peak, Finances will not work like Pre-peak finances.
Supply/demand paradigm for example.
I want to thank Nate Hagens for his contribution to this piece. He read earlier versions and provided valuable feedback.
Mucho kudos to you both.
Excellent synopsis. 8D
I agree. Good insights, Gail.
The Washington Post's economic writer (Pearlstein) has a suggestion for your #8 (Homes that will never be sold)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/08/AR200801...
I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but it is a very possible policy choice I think.
This would be a great time to convert overly-large urban single-family houses into 2-family, 3-family, or even multi-family houses. Not only are there lots of properties on the market at distressed prices, there are also lots of unemployed construction workers that would be very happy for the work.
The only problem with this is that it will increase even further the over-supply of houses.
I would agree with you, though, that this is the way to go, if we can pick houses that are in good locations (future jobs, transportation). Homes that are in bad locations may end up being torn down.
Another use for unneeded homes is to be retrofitted as small stores that people can walk to. This will leave many big box stores unneeded.
" Homes that are in bad locations may end up being torn down."
Or scavenged for supplies.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/living/ci_7866227
Would require zoning changes from single family to muti. and by-law changes for parking requirements , service levels for schools, EMS, etc. Expect NIMBY resistance from other owners as this would be perceived as lowering their values even more I suspect (though I do not agree)...
Zoning depends on the area, it is very different from one community to the next. I think that some people on this board are accustomed to living with very rigid zoning rules; it isn't that way everywhere. In my small town, the zoning rules are pretty lax, and there are whole counties nearby with no zoning at all.
When you get into the older areas of cities, typically you'll see more of a mix of permitted uses. It is in suburbia where you are most likely to find a very rigid zoning that would absolutely preclude the types of modifications I have suggested above.
My brother bought a coop just before an earlier downturn in the housing market. The local government decided that it was a great place to put section eight (welfare family types) into because they were new and the repair bills were small.
He mailed his keys back.
"Once financial markets begin to recognize peak oil,..."
Or once we see the tip of the iceberg...
I continue to believe that the current financial debacle began
with Katrina.
The assumption is that the starting point is now.
And, IMHO, the game began when the US went bankrupt in 1985 trying to
pay for VietNam and imports of oil from 1972 on.
We now have a Shadow Banking System with zero reserves.
http://www.pimco.com/LeftNav/Featured+Market+Commentary/IO/2008/IO+Janua...
" ``Our modern shadow banking system craftily dodges the reserve requirements of traditional institutions and promotes a chain letter, pyramid scheme of leverage, based in many cases on no reserve cushion whatsoever.''
Here Elaine and I have channeled the same Bill Gross article
with the same conclusions.
http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/money_matters/
"At every step, the people who create loans are removing themselves from the responsibility of making up the difference if the loan fails."
We're in a Depression now. We will not be told.
"Human Nature and False Reporting:
It will be in no ones best interest to factually report the reality of the decline of fossil fuels once it begins in earnest. Owners, producers, geologists, professional organizations, governments, corporations, retailers, the press — NONE will have any motivation to report reality.-perry arnett
I wouldn't go as far as you in describing our current situation, but I would agree that the balance of payments situation was a serious issue, even before our current mess. There were also serious issues with structured securities.
These are links to some of my earlier financial posts:
Economic Impact of Peak Oil Part 1: A Flashback
Economic Impact of Peak Oil Part 2: Our Current Situation
Economic Impact of Peak Oil Part 3: What's Ahead?
Part 2 is the post most relevant to our current situation.
The quality and clarity of the views expressed on The Oil Drum are simply astonishing. How this website attracts the quality of input it does just amazes me. There are so many wonderful minds slicing and dicing the consequences of Peak Oil, it's almost enough to give some hope. Thank you Gail, Matt and Nate!
I agree hugbo. It allows me to calculate my future much better.
This site is so much better than other Peak Oil sites as well. Much more measured and thoughtful.
As Nate said in that interview article that was here yesterday:
This is very applicable to other sites like lifeafterthecrash.net (Matt Savinar) or Kunstler.
So when people say I'm crazy, I say "no, look at theoildrum dot com; it has these guys, and they're really smart" - whenever I defend myself I come off sounding retarded :).