DrumBeat: July 26, 2007

James Hansen: Huge sea level rises are coming – unless we act now

The current rate of sea level change is not without consequences. However, the primary issue is whether global warming will reach a level such that ice sheets begin to disintegrate in a rapid, non-linear fashion on West Antarctica, Greenland or both. Once well under way, such a collapse might be impossible to stop, because there are multiple positive feedbacks. In that event, a sea level rise of several metres at least would be expected.

As an example, let us say that ice sheet melting adds 1 centimetre to sea level for the decade 2005 to 2015, and that this doubles each decade until the West Antarctic ice sheet is largely depleted. This would yield a rise in sea level of more than 5 metres by 2095.

Are We Running On Empty? (video and transcript)

The oil age is coming to an end. A growing body of analysts believes we’re driving towards a precipice called "peak oil", the point at which oil production climaxes and then plunges into irrevocable decline. Some say we’re already there; it’s the Mad Max2 scenario of a world running on empty, where gasoline is the most precious resource on earth, and it’s the end of lifestyles that rely on plentiful oil for cheap transport. How do we quit our addiction to oil? Are modified cars the answer to the coming oil shock? Or should we seriously rethink individual car ownership? Can we get on board mass public transport? Do we follow the lead of people such as Rupert Murdoch, who recently announced he's buying a hybrid car that’s driven by a combination of petrol and electric motors? Leonardo DiCaprio also drives a hybrid, and George Clooney has gone a step further, with an all-electric car. Closer to home, Australian of the Year Tim Flannery, Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd are converts to hybrids, and thousands more Australians each month are joining them. Difference of Opinion has invited a panel of leading experts to discuss our transport future.


Regulators fine natgas market manipulaters

Two market regulators on Thursday fined two large natural gas players - defunct hedge fund Amaranth Advisors and pipeline company Energy Transfer Partners LP - alleging widespread market manipulation.


Transport policy needs to go off-road

Cars account for about 85 per cent of trips in Melbourne — among the highest rate in the world — and this dependence holds the key to solving Melbourne's transport problems. The Government's response is akin to a doctor prescribing a larger belt for an obese patient, and leaves Victoria ill-equipped to deal with four urgent issues.


The carbon cost of building and operating light rail

Rail mass transit is supposed to be good for the environment. But a leading critic of Sound Transit's Link light rail project offers metrics that suggest the environmental costs are much higher than those of more vanpools, more carpools, more buses, and, particularly, more bicycling.


BHP hit by cost of own iron

BHP Billiton is breaking production records but is still being squeezed by the rising price of one of its own products, iron ore.

A sharp kick in the price of steel a year ago appears to have almost singlehandedly caused a rise of 27 per cent, or $80 million, in the cost of the Stybarrow oil development off Exmouth on the West Australian coast.


Royal Dutch Shell's profit leaps 20%

Royal Dutch Shell Plc bucked an industry-wide trend of falling earnings on Thursday, posting a 20 percent rise in second-quarter profits as fat refining margins helped outweigh lower output.


The time is now

So we come to the question of when and how to act. And I'm going to suggest that everyone who reads this take 10 basic actions to provide for their security right now - this year, whenever possible. I could be absolutely off base, but it seems like the combination of peak oil, financial instability and climate change is going to strike us hard, and soon. Now maybe you disagree - you expect technological solutions, or things to be gentler. But even if you do, there's good reason to hedge your bets, invest a few resources and a little energy into preparation, so that just in case the crazy lady on the blog was right, your family, your community will be a little bit better off.


Time Will Tell For Global Oil Demand

EIA, like many others, is calling for much faster demand growth in the second half of the year than seen recently. Table 3 of EIA’s Short-Term Energy Outlook, shows third quarter 2007 global demand 1.7 million barrels over the third quarter 2006 demand level, while fourth quarter 2007 demand is expected to be 1.9 million barrels per day higher than in the last quarter of 2006. This compares to global demand growth of just 0.4 million barrels per day over year-ago levels in the first quarter this year and 1.4 million barrels per day for the second quarter. Part of this pattern is explained by warm weather in much of the Northern Hemisphere at the end of last year and the beginning of this year. But there remains an assumption that high oil prices will not impact demand significantly, in part, because for much of the world, the price increase has been somewhat muted as oil is priced in dollars and the dollar has been falling compared to most major currencies. In EIA’s projections, this expected growth in demand leads to larger inventory draws relative to normal patterns.


Domestic Demand: The Main Engine of Saudi Arabia's Growth

Saudi Arabia's economic boom is all set to continue after four years of strong growth driven by rising oil revenues, which have stimulated massive project spending. However, domestic demand will take over as the main engine of growth for the period 2007-2010.


The Dollar Collapse's Oil Ramifications

Oil is a commodity traded almost universally in U.S. dollars, but for how long?


If Iran Provokes an Energy Crisis: Modeling the Problem in a War Game

From December 2006 to March 2007, Heritage Foundation scholars conducted a computer simula­tion and gaming exercise that examined the likely economic and policy consequences of a major oil disruption in the Persian Gulf. The exercise utilized a realistic scenario, state-of-the-art macroeconomic modeling, and a knowledgeable team of subject-matter experts from government, business, aca­demia, and research institutes from around Wash­ington, D.C.


Downtown electricity supply stretched thin

The electricity supply in downtown Vancouver is stretched so thin that an equipment breakdown like one that occurred this month could touch off an economic and social disaster, documents filed with the B.C. Utilities Commission suggest.


Ghana: Unilever plans for the worse in energy crisis

The Managing Director of Unilever Ghana Limited, a multinational manufacturing company, Charles Coffie has exclusively told The Statesman about their intention to continue operation even without energy supply from the Akosombo hydro electric dam. "We are not frightened by the threats of expected shut down of the Akosombo Dam whenever it takes place."


Albania’s Electricity Monopoly Seeks Rate Hike

Amidst a severe energy crisis, the Albanian Power Corporation, KESH, announced Wednesday it will request an electricity price hike to recover from the higher cost of imports and low hydropower production due to the country’s drought.


Analysis: Iraq oil refineries go private

Iraq's Parliament has approved a law privatizing the country's oil-refining sector in order to lure investment and stem a fuel shortage.

The law, approved Tuesday, is a step toward relinquishing government involvement in the refining sector and, when poverty is alleviated, moving Iraqi consumers from state-subsidized to market prices for fuel.


The European Champions of Energy: Russia and France Play the Game

Last week I told you the French are beating the Brits in the pan-European battle for Russia's gas-fueled energy affection. But what exactly are they winning?

Across Europe, a new nationalism is in the air. France can take some of the blame for eroding the sense of inevitability that was once attached to European political unity. After all, it was the French voting public who, along with the Dutch, rejected the proposed EU constitution in mid 2005.


Big Oil drills for vote of approval

When Conoco­Phillips was battling to prevent a state takeover of its multibillion-dollar investments in Venezuela last month, why was one of its top executives talking to elementary school teachers about lightbulbs?

Jim Gallogly, head of refining and marketing, was conducting a day of questions and answers on recycling and other issues in Columbia, South Carolina. The third-biggest oil company in the US had sent him to a small city – where it has no operations – at this a critical time.

"People are mad at us," Mr Gallogly explains. "We have to get out and answer their questions."


Spanner in the works over BP and Shell merger

Tony Hayward, BP's new chief executive, will have saddened investment bankers everywhere this week with his rejection of speculation about a possible merger with Royal Dutch Shell.

As well as denying rumours that the companies were in talks, he suggested a merger would be the wrong answer to BP's problems. BP needed to fix its operations, not its strategy, he said.


Global Industries Awarded Berri & Qatif Projects by Saudi Aramco

Global Industries, Ltd. announced today that its subsidiary Global Al Rushaid Offshore Company, Ltd. has signed a contract with Saudi Aramco for the Berri Water Injection and Qatif Crude Offshore Pipelines Projects.

The work will be performed in the Qatif and Berri Fields off the Eastern coast of Saudi Arabia. The project consists of installation of water injection pipelines and crude oil flowlines ranging in diameter from 12" to 30", two shore approaches and numerous lateral pipelines including subsea valve skids.


New York oil price hits new 11-month high: 77.24 dollars

The price of New York crude leapt to 77.24 dollar a barrel on Thursday, marking the highest level since August 9, 2006, as keen global demand and tight supplies fuelled speculative buying, traders said.

On Wednesday, the US government had revealed that inventories of American crude fell by 1.1 million barrels last week. New York's all-time high stands at 78.40 dollars, which was reached a year ago.


Exxon Mobil profit falls to $10.26B

Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's largest publicly traded oil company, said Thursday its second-quarter profit fell 1 percent from a year ago as lower natural gas prices hurt results.


How the Weak Dollar Affects OPEC

Peak Oil proponents note that many of OPEC’s oil fields, especially some of Saudi Arabia’s largest, are old and already require intensive measures to maintain current production rates. Whether or not this is true, there is another reason why OPEC may not be so eager to increase production.

This time, in spite of high oil prices in terms of U.S. dollars, OPEC is making less of a killing because the real value of the dollar is falling, and so are OOPEC’s real profits.


The Peak Oil Crisis: Hard Truths

The most interesting thing that can be said about the NPC report is that it has very little to do with providing government officials and the rest of us insight into the likely availability of oil over the next 25 years. There are federal employees, international organizations and contractors loaded with expertise that the Secretary of Energy can whistle up in minutes and can produce papers comparable in scope to the NPC’s efforts in days rather than years.

In reality, the “Hard Truths” report is a piece of political theater carefully constructed to deflect responsibility from the administration for failing to publicly acknowledge and start preparing the nation for the consequences of oil depletion.


The Single Biggest International Investment Trend

Though the movement is all around us, some haven't even noticed. You feel it at the dinner table and on the road. It leeches money from your pocket and it's the topic of every conversation you've had over the past few years. I've written about it countless times in this very publication.

But maybe you haven't even noticed the elephant in the room.

It's called Peak Oil, and it's the turning tide that is already positioning the 21st century's most savvy investors atop of a wave of wealth. My colleagues and I have cornered every angle of this sea change in the way the world works, and we want you to join us so you don't miss out on another second of the immense profits we're already delivering.


The day the drilling stopped

"There is a deafening silence from the world of dentistry on the subject of Peak Oil."

Some sentences are so great, they need no context or elaboration. They can just be appreciated, like a great blue heron rising from a forest pond.


Shell finds new Nigerian oilfield

The Nigerian arm of Royal Dutch Shell (RDSa.L) has made an oil discovery and a test well flowed at up to 5,000 barrels per day, the Shell Petroleum Development Company (SPDC) said on Thursday.


Udall Wants to Give U.S. Companies Power to Drill Offshore Cuba

Rep. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) has introduced legislation that would let U.S. oil and gas companies drill off the coast of Cuba.

The bill, according to Udall's office, would "make an exception to all laws, executive orders and regulations that now prohibit exports to or imports from Cuba or transactions in property in which a Cuban national has an interest."


ConocoPhillips Still in Talks on Venezuela Compensation

U.S. energy major ConocoPhillips (COP) said Wednesday it still was in discussions with Venezuela over compensation for stakes in crude-oil projects it ceded to the state-owned oil company there.


Blast, fire hit big gas pipeline in northwest Russia

A powerful explosion hit a gas pipeline in northwest Russia early on Thursday but officials said it was not caused by terrorism and exports were unaffected.

The huge blast hit a trunk pipeline outside Russia's second city of St Petersburg just minutes after midnight, shaking buildings as far as 5 km (3 miles) away from the epicenter and setting off a fierce fire.


About the NPC report

When I started working on oil depletion in 2003, there were a handful of lone voices in the wilderness sounding the alarm. Since then, the IEA, EIA, multiple government agencies in several nations, and several oil industry executives have determined oil shortages are possible. Multiple reports and books have been written. Congress has taken testimony. Key figures in Washington have made speeches. Although there are some differences in the details, they are trivial in comparison with the broader perspective.


Analyst: Pemex, Union Negotiation Shows Govt Biding Time

This month's renegotiation of the collective contract agreement (CCT) between Mexico's state oil company Pemex and the oil workers union (STPRM) demonstrates the government and Pemex's leadership are not yet ready to confront the union, which itself realizes "time is limited," Eurasia Group analyst Pamela Starr told BNamericas.


Is IBM Going Solar?

I had a chance recently to visit with one of the individuals responsible for IBM’s Big Green Innovations strategy – which has made a splash in the cleantech world over the last half year. We were talking on a range of topics, but one that piqued my interest was the description of IBM’s work in photovoltaics – and a few thoughts on where they were going.


GE issues credit card aimed to cut emissions

General Electric Co. issued a credit card on Wednesday it says will be the first to cut help U.S. cardholders voluntarily cut emissions linked to global warming.

The card, called GE Money Earth Rewards Platinum Mastercard, allows users the option of automatically contributing up to one percent of their card purchases to buy greenhouse emissions offsets.


Study: Nevada has big temperature gains

Nevada is among the states with the most dramatic increase in average temperatures the last 30 years, according to a new study that examines the impact of global warming across the country.


Ozone cuts plant growth, spurs global warming: study

The affects of greenhouse gas ozone, which has been increasing near Earth's surface since 1850, could seriously cut into crop yields and spur global warming this century, scientists reported on Wednesday.


Agency, group to 'offset' CO2 emissions

The U.S. Forest Service is teaming with a nonprofit foundation to allow consumers to participate in a voluntary program to "offset" their carbon dioxide emissions.

Under the agreement to be announced Wednesday, the Forest Service and the National Forest Foundation will allow individuals or groups to make charitable contributions that will be used to plant trees and do other work to improve national forests.

A new Round-Up has been posted at TOD:Canada.

As oil threatens to go through the roof over concerns that OPEC may not open the spigots, exploiting Canadian reserves is becoming far more expensive. The threat of labour disruption in the oil sands will only add to the problem.

An OPEC equivalent controlling future LNG trade is seen as a threat to US security, even as natural gas prices decline and the drilling sector consolidates in Canada.

Burnaby BC comes to terms with a long clean up after an oil spill, as the aftermath of a Japanese earthquake rattles the nuclear industry, and Ontario's nuclear troubles continue.

Risk aversion goes international as credit markets tighten around the world. Faced with threatened deals, banks are holding on to loans rather than hawking them to investors. The US sends another more senior figure to China to convince them to buy mortgage-backed securities. As bridge loans become pier loans in the developing credit crunch, Wall Street 'heads for the diaper aisle'.

gas-tanker330.jpg

World-wide market meltdown, it's a Friday, and CNBC has hauled out the cheerleaders. The only surprise is they didn't roust Kudlow out of bed to come in and lead the Pep Rally. With Asian markets down 2.5%, the US Dollar in freefall, why would anyone want to stay in the market over the weekend is beyond me.

“Home Prices Are Falling Like Almost Never Before”
By Dean Baker

... we are looking at a downward cascading price path. Increasing defaults lead to more desperation sales, which puts further downward pressure on prices. Further declines in prices, lead to more defaults. The soaring default rate also constricts mortgage loans as investors become less anxious to give away money for people to buy overpriced homes. When buyers have more difficulty getting mortgages, many get shut out of the market, which puts more downward pressure on prices.
... house prices have tracked inflation going to 1895. ... In the period from 1995 to 2006, house prices rose by more than 70 percent, after adjusting for inflation.

...

In short, there was no explanation for this sudden run-up in house sale prices based on fundamentals. ...

... 1995 was the beginning of the stock bubble, when prices really started to diverge from fundamentals in a big way. It is easy to tell a story of a housing bubble growing side by side with a stock bubble; we had just seen it in Japan in the 1980s.

... Alan Greenspan dismissed the idea ...

... we should be especially attentive towards efforts to rewrite history. It is common for people to now say that everyone recognized the stock bubble in the 90s. This is not true, which can be easily shown by reading what economists said at the time http://www.phil.frb.org/files/liv/livjun01.pdf
... The vast majority of the economics profession either missed the housing bubble altogether or dismissed its importance at the time. This should not be forgotten.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/jul/25/home_prices_are_fall...

CNN covered the housing market this morning. (It ended on a hopeful note, of course. They might lower interest rates this fall - great news for buyers and sellers!)

One thing they mentioned...a lot of local governments are setting up funds to help people in danger of foreclosure.

Which is what Wall St. Journal Reports predicted three years ago. They had an episode that was basically devoted to peak oil (though they didn't say it that way). Their talking heads predicted that high gas prices would cause the value of suburban real estate to plummet...and predicted the politicians would not be able to resist the pressure to provide mortgage bailouts.

Leanan, great pic you posted of Florida. Thanks for all that you do.

I knew for certain the housing bubble was ready to pop when my dim neighbor told me he was thinking of buying investment property. When Joe Blow notices the latest investment scheme it's time to get out. Never fails.

Haha, this is so true, I overheard a checkout girl and bag boy (they were much younger than me so I am allowed to refer to them as a boy and girl) in a Safeway in early 2000 talking about their margin accounts. Freaked me out.

Anyway, who cares about all this peak oil stuff. I'm more concerned about peak gambling:

Electricity shortage threatens Macau gambling industry

New home sales tumble 6.6% in June to 834,000 annual rate, well below forecasts, Reuters reports.

Ireland was also a hot property market once. Seems like globalisation is a double edged sword. No doubt people will be calling for protection from it before long.

House prices plummet by up to €10,000 [$13800] every month
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/house-prices-plummet-by-up-to-eu...

THE value of average priced homes in some areas of the country is plummeting by €10,000 each month.

Estate agents last night confirmed that - despite recent concessions for first time buyers - there has been an alarming drop in house and apartment prices across the country over the past three months.

Experts say the drop is being fuelled by the growing number of homeowners who are selling their properties because they can no longer afford to meet mortgage repayments.

They are being forced to drop the price of their homes in a desperate bid to sell as nervous buyers continue to sit on the fence.

Triumvirate of collapse - Economy, Ecosystem, Energy

The UK housing market is also now failing. A global housing bubble problem?

UK house prices 'stall' in July
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6916823.stm

The sharp slowdown in July's house price numbers could show that potential homebuyers are thinking twice about overstretching themselves in a higher interest rate environment

Considering that the UK is more in debt per capita than the US, I'd imagine they're considering how massively overstreatched they already are.

The UK fails horribly on economic, ecosystem and energy... they're toast.

Triumvirate of collapse - Economy, Ecosystem, Energy

"The UK fails horribly on economic, ecosystem and energy... they're toast."

I have to disagree a little here. The UK is getting more and more integrated with Europe at the economic level every year. And Europe while not exactly booming over the last 3-5 years has also been making much more effetive use of it's advances. More public transport, more alternative energy, Less debt (excluding Britain and Spain) at the personal level.

Also the UK has only just started importing Oil and Gas. The US can't say that they are still 90% domestic for their Oil but the UK can (mind you it will be dropping quicker). Cut off British oil imports and prices of petrol would spike causing a shift of travel to the public tansport infrastructure. Cut off US imports and people start to starve, no public transport to fall back on and people have to travel just to get to food (you could limit use to food distribution, and the military/emergency services, but people may still need to travel 10 mile round trips for food in desert climates).

I suspect no country will handle the situation well but I disagree with the UK failing horribly in the short to mid term (2-5 years).

From the RigZone article linked above.
"Rep. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) has introduced legislation that would let U.S. oil and gas companies drill off the coast of Cuba."
No mention of whether the Cuban government or it's people will have a say so in whether US oil and gas companies drill off the Cuban coast.

I hope we consider saving some for our children and granchildren.

No mention of whether the Cuban government or it's people will have a say so in whether US oil and gas companies drill off the Cuban coast.

My understanding is that the inverse problem Udall is concerned about.

Gunga2006,

Cuban energy policy isn't the problem. The US trade embargo is, and it's lobbied by the Cuban-Americans in southern Florida who hate the fact Castro freed the serfs in the sugar fields and redistributed their lands.

US companies can't bid on the lease blocks, US companies can't buy the production, US service companies can't get the service work, even though we're closer than any other nation except Jamaica.

It also shows the potential of the eastern Gulf of Mexico for production.

Its really strange that our country lets many immigrant groups lobby against the interests of the rest of us, because its not just the Cubans. Its the Israeli's against the other peoples of Palestine, the Sein Fein against the Brits , the Fallon Gong against China and I'm sure others. People need to give up nationalism for other countries or move to their real home.
Bob Ebersole

My point is that someone should ask the Cubans who they think should drill in their territorial waters.
The last time I checked they were a sovereign nation. Even if the US laws are changed , US companies may be shut out because THE CUBANS HAVE A SAY IN THE MATTER ALSO.

Regards,
Gunga

Gunga2006,

Of course they are a sovereign nation. But, they haven't banned US corporations from doing business in Cuba. Its the 35 year old embargo by the US government that's the problem.

Foreign subsidiaries of US corporations do business there all the time. Canadians do business there, Mexicans do business there-its only the United States who allows the great-grandchildren of the slave owners of Cuba to direct our foreign policy.

I think the point that everyone makes is that whether Cuba will want to participate in such a play. There is no talk of removing all of sanctions. Removing sanctions in oil sector only will benefit US only. I would image that Cuba can get the money that it needs for oil field development from many other countries (Europe, Russia, Venezuela, China,...), none of which has trade sanction against Cuba. So I share the skepticism in this plan. It can only work if US will remove all of sanction, then Cuba might reciprocate by allowing US companies to explore it's oil. Otherwise Cuba will simply loose.
Say Cuba holds no grudge and simply asks that any company that invests a dollar into it's oil industry has to invest another into oil processing industry. US would be automatically excluded from such offer.
Such partial sanction removal is useless.

Turkey Elects Islamic Government. Alliances May Shift Towards Iran, Syria.

"... at the top of the AKP's agenda is choosing a president in tune with its worldview. The president names the head of the armed forces, a power that could potentially turn the military into a servant of the government. Given that the government can change laws, name judges and staff the state administration, Turkey's slide to another political model could reach a point of no return. But what precisely would that model be?

If such a model means a Turkey that is more willing to embrace its traditional and religious heritage, the outcome would be relatively benign for most of its citizens as well as for its strategic alliances. But if it means a more anti-Western Turkey increasingly oriented toward Iran, Syria and radical Islamist movements, a major shift in international politics would be accompanied by mounting domestic instability."

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/rss/eo20070726a1.html

I have heard that in Iran, there is no more serious insult than calling someone 'Turkish.' Just an anecdote (and I might be remembering it wrong anyways), but no one in the Arabic world is likely to feel much more affectionate towards their former imperial masters.

Obviously, the rulers of nation states can have their own goals, apart from those they rule, but it is a major stretch to start building an alliance out of three very distinct cultures - with their own languages, histories, and yes, religious traditions. They do share interests - all have Kurdish populations, for example, and opposing a Kurdish state is something all three can easily agree on, to the extent of coordinating troop movements, etc.

And I suppose they feel the same way in the Persian world. Iran is not part of the Arabic world you know.

Sorry to be a nitpicker but it is a common mistake to think the Iranians are Arabs. They are not, they are just Iranians, formerly called Persians and they speak Farsi instead of Arabic.

Ron Patterson

They're still Muslims, anyway, which is probably the origin of the confusion for most Americans?

They're still Muslims, anyway, which is probably the origin of the confusion for most Americans?

Muslim is not muslim. Most people in Iran are shiites. There is a shiite minority in Saudi-Arabia that reportedly is so hostile towards the Sunni/Wahhabite majority that officials from the capital Ryadh avoid staying in the Saudi east overnight and rather take a flight back the same day.
There have been bloody wars against the shiites in the first decades of the Saudi kingdom.

Iraq on the other hand holds a Sunni minority, and that's one of the reasons why the US cannot easily withdraw from Iraq. The result would be military intervention from KSA in order to protect their Sunni brothers, and probably the start of a middle east war among muslims with unpredictable consequences.

I realize this, but it was very good of you to elaborate. Thank you.

In essence, though, just factions of the same derivative Abrahamic religion vying for power for centuries. Except now, with the aftermath of decades of torturously grim political rule, in addition to a US invasion and occupation, this conflict has erupted in an open source atmosphere in an Iraq that is very "insecure". The whole thing is fueled by regional actors plus internal strife, and obviously our presence there. One doesn't win wars, they just happen. That's the problem with the US political discourse, no one is "honest" about the war... Not even poor 'ole droopy faced Biden who couldn't say he was "honest about the war" enough in the YouLube debate.

Isn't the capital of Iran named Teheran?

Also, Saudi Arabia is already funding the Sunni militias in Iraq, just as they fund Al Quaida. And the fundementalist Christians in America want Armagedon to begin, so they fund the Neocons who started this war. They are all a bunch of insane religeous idiots jepordising the whole world. George W. Bush, Osama ben Ladin, the Ayatolah Konemi, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham all had the peaceful light of true believers. Too bad God wasn't a little more consistent with His message.

"And the fundementalist Christians in America want Armagedon to begin, so they fund the Neocons who started this war."

For the latest, try Christians United for Rapture by Bluementhal at Huffington. A video and text piece on this week's DC convention. Complete with those of yesteryear, DeLay and Santorium. And I should add, Lieberman, I of CT. Not happy till we bomb Iran.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/rapture-ready-the-unauth_b_...

Persian Mr Zoubin emailed

Sunday, January 07, 2001 5:52 PM

Dear Friend, we saw some of these documents http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/8327/buehlerpayne.html but we would like your commentary about what happened and all circumstances so we can post it on our website but as well as a report to the mailing lists.

With thanks

On behalf of SMCCDI A. Zoubin ( Information Committee) http://www.iran-daneshjoo.org/

The Information Committee was advised that "we would like your commentary about what happened and all circumstances so we can post it on our website but as well as a report to the mailing lists" may be a bad idea for the reason the information might reach the wrong or right, depending on your point of view, people.

In the alternative, we suggested gaining as much information as possible about what happened, then taking legal action to settle these unfortunate matters peacefully.

Isn't the capital of Iran named Teheran?

Yes, but the capital of Saudi-Arabia, what I was writing about, is Rhyad.

I don't think expat meant to suggest Iranians were Arabs, he said Arabs probably didn't like Turks any more than Iranians did.

As for Iran, only about half the population are ethnic Persians and speak Farsi as their first language; sizable minorities include Azeris, Kurds, Mazandarani, Arabs etc. And in case somebody thinks Persians dominate, it's good to remember that the Supreme Leader is Azeri, and so is the commander of the Revolutionary Guard.

The sentence may not have been clear - the Turks ruled the Iranians, and they also ruled the Arabs - which means that the Syrians may not be as deeply anti-Turk as the Iranians, but the same dynamic applies in terms of fairly recent history, before the end of World War I.

I do realize that an awful lot of people in the U.S. think there is no difference between Persians and Arabs, so reminding people this is not true is always worthwhile. Especially if it wasn't as plain as it could be.

expat,
the Ottoman empire included Syria and Egypt too at one point. They were a brutal bunch, not well liked by anybody from the Balkans and Greece all the way around to Egypt. Bob Ebersole

Bob,

Send me an eMail about meeting in Houston before ASPO.

Thanks,

Alan

When was Iran ruled by the Turks?

I think you are confusing Iran with Iraq.

Well I am going to nitpick you, Ron. :)

Iran today actually embraces multiple ethnic groups, including Persians, Kurds, and Arabs. Of particular note to the war college was that the western part of Iran, which controls the oil fields is Arab and is worked by Arab Iranians for the most part while Tehran and much of the rest of Iran (excepting the northwest areas which are Kurdish) are of Persian descent.

So you can actually say that some Iranians are Arabs although it would be a mistake to make that claim of all of them, just as it would be a mistake to claim that all Iranians are Persian.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Dr. Albert Bartlett
Into the Grey Zone

Apologies for lowering the tone, but did anyone know if this candidate got in?

http://www.ufukuras.net/public/defter.aspx?id=595

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufuk_Uras

Gas prices have dropped 15 cents and oil is surging??? What gives?