Does the Peak Oil "Myth" Just Fall Down? -- Our Response to CERA
Posted by Dave Cohen on February 4, 2007 - 10:00am
Topic: Supply/Production
Tags: cera, daniel yergin, peter jackson [list all tags]
With the release of Why the "Peak Oil" Theory Falls Down Myths, Legends and the Future of Oil Resources by Peter M. Jackson, Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA) attempts to cast doubt on the credibility of those with imminent, empirically-based concerns about our future oil supply.
CERA's "Decision Brief" requires a response because since 1870, the health of the world's economies have hinged on a secure, dependable and growing flow of "conventional" oil. Their forecast, shown in Figure 1, predicts that the oil supply will continue to grow and sustain economic growth.
Figure 1 Click to Enlarge
We shall have much more to say about CERA's forecast later. For now, it is sufficient to note that CERA's analysis is lacking. The world's oil supply will not continue to grow to meet ever-rising global demand, and worse, the consequences could irrevocably damage global economies. Such an outcome would have harmful effects on people's lives. So, this debate is not "academic" much depends on a correct analysis of the future oil supply.
1. What is "Peak Oil"?
Peak Oil is the theory, with resulting hypotheses, tested with data, that the world's incremental production of conventional oil over time will reach some high water mark and decline thereafter. There are a number of ways to define "conventional" but, for our purposes here, such oil consists of crude oil, condensate and natural gas liquids.Conventional oil production is measured as the quantity extracted over time. For example, the United States produced 6.88 million barrels per day (mbd) of conventional oil in August, 2006 according to data provided by the Energy Information Administration (EIA). The world as a whole produced 81.55 mbd during the same month. The peak oil hypothesis claims that world production will reach an apex and decline, analogous to the production profile shown in CERA's graph for the United States in Figure 2 below.
Figure 2 Click to Enlarge
As Figure 2 clearly demonstrates, the peak of United States oil production measured in billion barrels per year for crude oil plus condensate occurred in 1970. We will have more to say about CERA's analysis of this graph in section 3 below. Notwithstanding any subtleties of interpretation, it is impossible to deny that the U.S. peak did occur and thereafter, production never reached the 1970 high water mark ever again.
No one, including CERA, doubts that a peak in world conventional oil production will eventually occur; it is only a matter of when it will occur. As Figure 1 shows, CERA believes that the apex of production will happen circa 2040. Those putting forth the peak oil hypothesis simply disagree about the timing. Although estimates vary, most of us agree that the peak will occur sometime before 2015, a scant 9 years from now. Within that range, some think the current plateau in oil production signals that the peak is now while others put the peak elsewhere in the coming decade. If this hypothesis is correct, the world will have little time to mitigate the problem, as outlined in Peaking of World Oil Production: Impacts, Mitigation & Risk Management by Robert L. Hirsch (SAIC), Roger Bezdek, (MISI) Robert Wendling, (MISI) published in February, 2005.
A final word about what peak oil is not: the hypothesis set forth here is not a catastrophist prophecy that the world is running out of oil. Once the world production does peak, views vary as to how severe the decline rate will be thereafter. Many reputable people from the oil & natural gas industry and elsewhere are concerned about peak oil. We are not a doomsday cult.
[editor's note, by Dave Cohen] It will not be possible here to cover all the necessary arguments which a neutral observer might wish to see in order to make a judgement in this debate. In particular, aboveground political risks that might "limit upstream investments" as CERA put it, such as in Russia and elsewhere, are not covered here. Nor have we addressed potentially explosive geopolitical situations such as the Iraq civil war or Iran's nuclear ambitions Middle Eastern tensions could have catastrophic effects on global oil production. We have not been able to include logistical concerns eg. the global shortage of drilling rigs. The alarming trends in world oil exports and declining discoveries which cause us genuine concern are not covered either; for example, conventional oil discoveries peaked in the 1960's and, as a result, the world's largest oil fields, which were found first, are now decades old and aging more with every passing year.
2. Reserves Versus Production Flows
The question of recoverable reserves estimates versus production flows is central to the argument about the timing of peak oil. CERA states that "Reserves/Resource Definitions and Estimates Cloud the Debate". We agree. You will note that our definition of "peak oil" above does not mention reserves at all but, rather, focuses on production flows measured as the quantity extracted over time. Recoverable reserves are almost orthogonal to the debate outside the simple observation that these must exist before any oil can be extracted. The peak oil hypothesis focuses on realistic geological, technological and economic constraints on current & future oil production. A detailed example pertaining to future production will suffice.Great fanfare in the press accompanied Chevron's successful Jack #2 test well in the ultra-deepwater Lower Tertiary basin of the Gulf of Mexico. Press accounts such as Business Week's Plenty of Oil--Just Drill Deeper The discovery of reserves in the Gulf of Mexico means supply isn't topping out highlighted the estimated recoverable reserves numbers, which were given in the range 3 billion (Gb) to 15 billion barrels of oil with emphasis on the latter figure. Press releases related to the new "Decision Brief" have been similar, for example MSNBC's World oil supply still plentiful, study shows in which it is stated that
Cambridge Energy Research Associates said in a report that the world has some 3.74 trillion barrels of oil left -- enough to last 122 years at current consumption rates and triple the amount estimated by "peak oil" theorists.Although CERA states that huge reserves estimates cloud the debate, they continue to promulgate them.
Reading the "fine print" about Jack #2, it became apparent that there were extremely challenging hurdles to overcome in order to actually produce this oil. These included, among other things, the need for drilling equipment beyond the limits of current technology, huge capital expenditure requirements before first production could begin and the further necessity of doing additional tests to find out whether the geology of the reservoirs would permit sufficient oil flow rates to make the play economic to produce. At this time, Chevron and its partners will do additional appraisals next year. No decision has been made yet as to whether development of the Jack field will go forward.
So, it was with some surprise that CERA asserted the following in a press release dated September 6, 2006, based upon their August, 2006 Private Report Expansion Set to Continue: Global Liquids Capacity to 2015.
The most material new resource in the deepwater Gulf of Mexico is the Lower Tertiary Eocene.... [includes the Cascade, Chinook, Saint Malo, Jack, Das Bump, Stones, Hadrian and Great White fields]As the text quoted indicates, with its private clients, CERA does not focus on reserves. The 800/kbd is a production rate, not a reserves number. However these are the take home points CERA has added in productive capacity from the Gulf of Mexico, as shown in Figure 3, for the Wilcox play although it is not clear yet whether some of these fields will even be produced given the constraints on production mentioned above. Furthermore, CERA's production flow estimate is at least 300/kbd higher than any other independent estimate we could find for production in the 2013 period.A production test [Jack #2] is under way to assess the producibility of the deep Wilcox reservoir. Assuming a successful test, a capacity of 800,000 barrels per day [kbd] is projected from the Eocene trend of fields by 2013-14, plus capacity from any subsequent discoveries. [passage from the CERA report referenced above]
Figure 3 Click to Enlarge
What Figure 3 highlights, which is not found anywhere in the CERA's peak oil "Decision Brief", is their assumption shared by us of a 5% decline rate in existing oil production over time. As you can see, what CERA calls the "Upstream Oil Challenge" is a race between bringing new conventional oil production on-stream and declining production in existing oil fields such as Mexico's giant offshore Cantarell field. The assumed global decline rate is crucial. The hard & expensive problem of bringing new oil production on-stream is compounded over time by an exponential decline rate which requires the world to run faster to stay in-place, let alone move forward to meet increasing demand. Moreover, some of the conventional oil CERA is counting on to meet the demand challenge involves fields under appraisal or "yet to find" resources this is oil that does not yet exist. Of the 3.74 trillion barrels of oil CERA claims remains to be exploited see section 3 below 0.758 trillion barrels comes from "exploration potential" ie. it has not yet been discovered but, presumably, is recoverable despite unknown geological, technological and economic constraints on production of a non-existent resource.
For Saudi Arabia, now the world's 2nd biggest producer, Kjell Aleklett, President of ASPO (Europe) has this to say:
As an example, CERA thinks that Saudi Arabia needs more than 2 million barrels per day from fields that not have been found today. Shaybah is the latest giant field that Saudi Arabia started up in 1998 with a production capacity of 500,000 barrels per day. In principle, CERA is saying that the production equivalent of 4 Shaybah fields will be found and put into production during the next 9 years in Saudi Arabia.As you can readily see, there is more to the peak oil problem than meets the eye as detailed in CERA's latest "Decision Brief". The peak oil hypothesis is both complex and worrisome.
3. Unconventional Oil Substitutes
As shown in Figure 1, the ability of the world to bring substitutes for conventional oil on-stream figures prominently in CERA's analysis both now and in the future. They define these substitutes as follows However, demand for refined products could outstrip conventional crude oil production. Conventional crude oil production excludes liquids production from heavy oil sands, ultra-deepwater oils, gas-related liquids (condensate and natural gas liquids), gas-to-liquids (GTL), and coal-to-liquids (CTL).* This means that additional sources of liquid fuels will be needed in abundance and in a timely manner, assuming relatively strong global economic and oil demand growth. Technology will promote a widening of the concept of conventional oil, as has occurred over the history of the industry.Let us get some clarifications and additions out of the way. First, in our more generous definition of conventional oil, condensates and natural gas liquids are already included. Second, whether ultra-deepwater production is conventional or not is a red herring it makes no difference to the debate. Heavy oil sands sometimes called tar sands refers to both the production of oil sands in Alberta, Canada by means of in situ heating or mining methods and the production of heavy tar in Venezuela's Orinoco Basin. Additional substitutes CERA considers include ethanol from cellulosic biomass or corn, from sugar cane (as in Brazil), diesel fuel from soybeans, and the like. Also not mentioned directly in the quote above is future production from oil shales. Taken altogether, these new sources plus additional conventional oil production are the source of the numbers quoted in the mainstream press.
CERA believes that the global inventory is some 4.82 trillion barrels of resources of which about 1.08 trillion barrels have been produced already. Therefore, there is as much as 3.74 trillion barrels of conventional and unconventional resource remaining, and this order of magnitude of resources will allow productive capacity to continue to expand well into this century.Although CERA asserts that "those who believe that a peak is imminent tend to consider only proven remaining resources of conventional oil, which at present they believe to be approximately 1.2 trillion barrels", any cursory glance at stories on The Oil Drum or much of the published peak oil literature will readily reveal that substitutes for oil are analyzed all the time. The reason for this is both simple & compelling since we believe the timing of peak oil is sooner rather than later, we are very concerned about whether substitutes will be available to ease the transition away from conventional oil to create a different energy mix in the future.[Note: for example, CERA estimates 0.707 trillion barrels to be produced from oil shales]
Unfortunately, our analysis reveals the same worrisome pattern over and over again for substitutes. The three principal problems with substitutes are listed below.
- Scalability by volume new liquid fuel resources can generally only provide a small percentage of the total volumes of liquid fuels supplied by conventional oil. For example, a National Academy of Sciences report came to the following conclusion.
The real risk from all these planned ethanol plants is that they'll use up vast quantities of corn. America's entire corn and soy crop could supply fuel volumes equal to just 12% of gasoline demand and 6% of diesel demand, notes a University of Minnesota ecology professor, David Tilman, an author of the July 25 Proceedings article.
- Scalability in time even where there is a vast resource, liquid production flows from substitutes are slow to ramp up. As a result, in the case of exponentially declining oil production not replaced by new conventional oil sources, substitutes will not make up shortfalls incurred in the short-term. To make matters worse, similar remarks apply to production of new conventional oil eg. recovering stranded oil by means of CO2 injection enhanced oil recovery (EOR).
- Low Energy Returns this refers to energy returned by a production process for a fuel divided by the energy required to produce the fuel standardly abbreviated as the EROEI. Both substitutes and, increasingly, new conventional oil production, have lower EROEIs tending toward the limit = 1. The closer one gets to the limit, the smaller the marginal returns. The EROEI term need not be confined to fossil fuel energy inputs but may include all of the economic costs associated with developing an energy fuel resource, depending on where the boundaries for the calculation are set. The general idea here is that the world is not like Spindletop in the Southeast of Texas anymore. You can not just sink a drillpipe and get a gusher anymore. The so-called "low hanging" fruit is gone and what is left is energy-intensive to develop & produce.
In an example of points #1 & #2 above, CERA believes that "GTL and CTL collectively may well represent 6 percent of global productive capacity by 2030", an unimpressive fraction of liquids production as estimated for that time period. Obviously, in the shorter term within the next decade, the percentage of gas-to-liquids or coal-to-liquids that will substitute for conventional oil will be negligible. Similar remarks apply to oil shales. If you believe, as we do, that the peak of production will come sooner rather than later, there is genuine cause for deep concern.
CERA explicitly acknowledges the scalability problems as the timescale of Figure 1 indicates. Despite their belief that the economics of unconventional substitutes is favorable, however, CERA does not seem to take net energy returns into account. There are already problems with the production of the oil sands in Canada, our most successful substitute so far. Capital expenditure costs are soaring to support new incremental production measured in increments of 100/kbd, thus making it harder to attract capital investments. Total production from the sands may be in the 2 to 3/mbd range by 2015, although estimates vary given the ongoing environment, logistic and net energy concerns there.
The bottom line as shown in Figure 1 from the CERA "Decision Brief" is that conventional oil production will conveniently increase until substitutes are ready to come on-stream much farther down the road, thus providing a seamless transition to the new liquid fuel sources. If CERA is mistaken about that production, substitutes will be of little avail in making up shortfalls.
4. Peak Oil Modeling Theory & Data
CERA berates those concerned about peak oil, labeled peakists in their document, for using questionable data and analysis methods. This passage is worth quoting in full.We are also struck by three characteristics of the current debate:Here we must take exception to CERA's characterization of peak oil research, especially here at The Oil Drum. Not only have we tracked CERA's bottom-up project- by-project analysis in the past a complete list of stories is too long to enumerate here but we also avail ourselves of whatever data we can find, such as the Megaprojects Database compiled by Chris Skrebowski, editor of the Petroleum Review.
- The peakist argument is not grounded in a credible systematic evaluation of available data.
- The peakist arguments cluster around the questionable model described by the late American geologist M. King Hubbert. This is a technique that fails to recognize both that recoverable reserves estimates evolve with time and are subject to constant and often significant change. It also underplays the far-reaching impact of technological advances.
- Some of the peakists are, interestingly, shifting their emphasis away from running out, in terms of physical resources, to issues that we believe are significant--infrastructure and aboveground risks.
Space limitations preclude going into much detail here, but suffice it to say that it is a bit disingenuous for an organization such as CERA, a wholly-owned subsidiary of IHS Energy, to charge money for it's reports for paying clients and then turn around and tell us that we are unfamiliar with the current & future oil production data. This points up a larger issue which Matt Simmons has brought to the forefront of public attention: data transparency in the world's oil industry. Just as we can not see some of CERA's field-by-field production projections, we also can not see an historical production profile or this year's monthly production data for Ghawar in Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest oil field. For an issue so crucial to the health of world economies, the lack of readily accessible data is scandalous. A pro bono approach would make data available to independent organizations that have an interest in analyzing it.
CERA's critique of Hubbert modeling is quoted below.
Despite his valuable contribution, M. King Hubbert's methodology falls down because it does not consider likely resource growth, application of new technology, basic commercial factors, or the impact of geopolitics on production. His approach does not work in all cases--including on the United States itself--and cannot reliably model a global production outlook. Put more simply, the case for the imminent peak is flawed. As it is, production in 2005 in the Lower 48 in the United States was 66 percent higher than Hubbert projected [see Figure 2].M. King Hubbert's logistic production curve is not a physical model, so naturally it does not take into account technology, geopolitics or economics. It is simply a modeling tool which provides one more independent line of evidence that peak oil analysts use to investigate their hypothesis. Other lines of evidence, as discussed above, do take into account "real world" data. We accept CERA's criticism that such production data do not always follow the logistic (bell) curve that forms the basis of the model. However, unless some geopolitical perturbations occur or the oil producing region is relatively immature, it is usually the case that deviations from the logistic are seen in the tail end of the curve after the apex of production has already occurred. See the Graphoilogy weblog for additional information.
However, the criticism that the United States does not follow Hubbert's predictions does not hold water. While it is true that Hubbert did not foresee Prudhoe Bay and other Alaskan production, or the deepwater developments in the Gulf of Mexico, it is nevertheless the case that 1) U.S. production did indeed peak just about when Hubbert said it would and 2) despite reserves growth during the subsequent period in the tail end of the curve, actual oil production never again reached its 1970 peak it has declined ever since. These are the salient observations to bear in mind.
Moreover, CERA makes some observations that cast doubt on their understanding of Hubbert's methods and further refinements to it. CERA makes the following claim:
Hubbert's method also requires an accurate knowledge of the ultimate recoverable reserves of any area. However, numerous studies point to the fact that, during the life of oil fields, resource estimates often increase as understanding of the field improves and new technology is applied.In fact, a Hubbert Linearization based on cumulative production yields an estimate of the ultimately recoverable reserves (URR) these are not known in advance. For example, this linearization for Romania indicates that the URR will be 6.2 billion barrels and that there is a decline rate of approximately 6.7%.
Linearization of Romanian production (the y-axis
the ratio of annual production to cumulative
production, x-axis is cumulative production.
Linear fit is to the region for 1955 on (green
data - plum data is prior to 1955). Click for
larger version. Source: American Petroleum
Institute (courtesy J. Laharrere) for 1857-1958,
and BP for 1965-2005 (includes NGLs). Production
data for 1959-1964 is linearly interpolated
between the two data sets.
Figure 4 Click to Enlarge
Kuwait provides another important example of using the Hubbert linearization to estimate recoverable reserves.
At the Oil Depletion conference (hosted by the Energy Institute) held in London on 7th November, Dr Kenneth Chew, a Vice President of IHS Energy [CERA's parent company] reported proved and probable reserves (2P) for Kuwait of around 52 billion barrels... This is approximately 51% of the proved reserves reported in the BP statistical review that stand at 101.5 billion barrels. This tends to support recent reports of Kuwaiti reserves being substantially overstated.A linearization for Kuwait yields an estimate of 40 billion recoverable barrels there, an number more in line with IHS Energy's conclusions than OPEC's "official" estimate of 101.5 billion barrels.
The bottom-line is that those studying the peak oil hypothesis are not wedded to Hubbert's theory, which has been refined over the years. However, these mathematical tools provide a sometimes startlingly accurate model of real world production data, especially where the data set is completely known such as in the United States and Norway which is also in decline.
5. Our Conclusions
In Figure 3, CERA shows current productive capacity at 88.7/mbd. This number was set in the Spring of 2006 and has not changed since, to our knowledge. In fact, according to the EIA, actual conventional oil production (as defined here) was 81.55/mbd in August, 2006, a figure which excludes the category other liquids these include refinery gains, biofuels, etc. We can not know the source of the discrepancy between the two numbers. However, if actual production bears the same relationship to productive capacity in the future as it does today given CERA's projected demand, there appears to be genuine cause for worry belying their rosy forecast.To quote CERA's Peter M. Jackson once more:
In these times of relatively tight supply, high and volatile oil prices, and anxiety about energy security, the peak oil debate is raging once more. This debate reflects one of the most important issues facing not only the energy industry, but the world at large. Those believing in a doomsday scenario argue that peak oil is near and that the world is ill prepared for it. If world oil production were to enter a sharp downward spiral in the next several years, the ramifications for the global economy and geopolitics would be severe and potentially catastrophic.We are concerned that CERA has "maintained a consistent contrary view" and not taken the peak oil hypothesis seriously until now. We can only agree that "this debate reflects one of the most important issues facing not only the energy industry, but the world at large." We hope our response demonstrates that the peak oil hypothesis is anything but simplistic. Furthermore, no one here or elsewhere is claiming that conventional oil will "run out" anytime soon. Rather, the peak oil view is an evolving, sophisticated take on conventional oil production and the viability of substitutes to replace continuing demand for this paramount fossil fuel in the face of inevitable declines in available supply. Only the timing of such declines is at issue here. We can also only add that denial in the face of potentially very threatening events is a powerful force in the human psyche.For many years CERA has maintained a consistent contrary view. CERA does not agree with the simplistic concept of an imminent peak in oil production nor with the idea that oil will "run out" soon thereafter.
In conclusion, the peak oil debate is still alive and well, not moribund, as CERA and some mainstream media accounts would have you believe. We at The Oil Drum are not persuaded in the least by CERA's often and disappointingly weak arguments which, ultimately, depend on many assumptions we consider unrealistic.
Dave Cohen
TOD Senior Contributor
News Contacts: theoildrum @ gmail.com
The Author: davec @ linkvoyager.com



Also, we hope that you will also spend some time talking about this subject on your own blogs, sending this post to as many media outlets you think will publish or respond as possible, and sending this post to your public and/or elected officials.
Simply put, we must come to achieving a better understanding of our energy supply--the geopolitical, political, and social aspects of a plateauing supply with ever growing global demand could have an impact on the daily lives, especially of those who are less fortunate.
TOD will also be putting out a press release on this topic next week; we hope that you will also send that around as well when it is ready. It will be shorter and more consumable for those not exposed to this mode of thinking.
Just a quick idea, but getting press attention for the issue tends to require the 'good story'. CERA achieve this by pushing a view which is contrary to the accepted wisdom and very palatable for the general populous to believe in.
A suggestion would be to challenge CERA to a wager - say the $1000 they charge everyone to get hold of the words of 'wisdom'. CERA take their optimistic predictions of world oil production, TOD one that reflects the peak oil hypothosis and predicted data set. Whoever gets closest to the mark over a defined time period (say the whole of 2007) wins the bet.
The story is good and would get coverage, and I'll bet that given the reported mismatch that is already in their predictions, CERA would decline to take part - telling its own story.
If we are so flush with energy, then why is it that today I received the third mailing from my local utility company offering a $25 energy credit in return for allowing them to install a device that periodically shuts off the air conditioner during times of peak usage? I also received a telephone call from a pushy company rep with the same offer.
The utility company must have sent that letter to all their customers.
You don't need to keep your house at 65F durring the summer while your not even home. Turn it off or turn it up and save some energy.
The topic of the main posting is that CERA and other like minded groups are implying that ff production capacity is not reaching its limits and can meet projected demand. If that is the case, then it does not follow that utility companies would be worried about not being able to meet demand. The large metropolitan area I live in already had an incident last winter when the utility company was forced to shut off power to large areas due to lack of natural gas. Personally, I see this as a harbinger - but that is my take.
I understand that utility company problems are multifactorial, but this was beyond the scope of the simple point I was making. You were not even on the same page. Heck, you were not looking at the same book.
Try not to be so overreactive. Your views may be in the minority on TOD, but having a thoughtful and polite tone will go far in allowing others to consider any valid points you may make.
I would like to point out your original post is irrelevant. There are many reasons for electric companies wanting to reduce demand during peak periods, many of them financial.
And your story about your utility having to shut off power because of a natural gas shortage? This post was about liquids.
PS. I agree that Hothgor was rude.
ImSceptical was right. This kind of program has very good justifications that are unrelated to fuel shortages.
It's called "demand management". It can be much cheaper to pay people to allow the utility to turn off their demand at peak, versus building new generation capacity just for peak demand.
in any case, i applaud energy conservation efforts for whatever reason.
The WSJ had a short note yesterday about the American Petroleum Institute (API) sending a letter to Congress warning them that if they raise taxes on the oil and gas industry it will hinder the industry's efforts to bring on new supplies of oil and gas and new alternative energy sources.
I actually agree with the API on this point, but I disgree withe the semi-cornucopian way they (and probably CERA) are trying to combat higher taxes. IMO, we need a much higher tax on energy consumption, offset by a cut to the Payroll Tax.
If you have time, could you please explain a little more about what you say here? I'm just not sure I'm reading this correctly. 1) Are you saying that the industry efforts to bring on "new alternative energy sources" would be hindered by raising taxes on the industry itself? 2) And when you say you agree with API...do you see a difference between "...taxes..on the industry" and "...a higher tax on energy consumption"? Or, do you see these as being essentially the same? 3) What do you see as actions that would promote (rather than hinder) "...new alternative...sources"? (I just realize I'm assuming by "new...sources", you mean - actually, which new sources are you including when you use this word?) I apologize in advance if I've not understood your previous posts on this subject. Thanks.
Full disclosure: I am an energy producer. In any case, I don't think that taxing energy production is going to help. I think that we need to tax energy consumption--in much the same way the Europeans do. Total energy consmption per capita in the US is twice what it is in Europe.
However, the API is taking the cornucopian approach. Just leave us alone and everyone will continue to be able to drive their SUV to their suburban mortgages.
BTW, the weekend WSJ has an article that goes into considerable detail on the effect that forced energy conservation is having on Africa.
WT,
As long as we continue to offer oil companies corporate welfare, they will take it. With Exxon receiving the largest profit in corporate history (any corp), I doubt that increasing taxes and eliminating subsidies will hurt it much.
As they get prodigiously richer, the oil execs will be the only people who can afford to drive SUVs to their mortgages.
I agree that consumer taxes are necessary, but we must not forget the super-wealthy corporations. I am, of course, assuming that when the MSM says "profit," they mean money left over after all operating expenses, including research and exploration dollars.
Personally, I believe that we must immediately begin taxing the bejeezus out of all the rich and especially the corporations. They have gotten too much from the commonwealth and returned too little or have caused actual damage.
I have little sympathy for rich people who cry crocodile tears when they only have a couple of million dollars left to live on. BOO HOO.
This sort of selfish behaviour earns the applause of right wingers who claim it is precisely this "evil" behaviour that produces all the good things we currently enjoy. Unfortunately, for this argument, the good things have been available since time began. I.E. food, water, and air. (For how much longer, I don't know.) Corporations do not account for environmental costs, effectively off-loading these costs onto the commons. When a person gets sick from pollution caused by a corporation hundreds of miles away, society picks up the tab. This is nitpicking on my part, using the terminology of the economic categorizer, please forgive me. I must wash out my mouth with organic soap. The overarching truth of pollution remains: it is killing the planet. Does not matter how we slice the fictional economic pie, that group over there, better known as XYZ Corp., engages in murder; therefore, such selfish, evil behaviour must be stopped. That is why we must tax the bejeezus out of the rich. We need to clean up their selfish messes.
A tax on a corporation is a tax on its employees, its shareholders and its customers.
A corporation is just a legal construct, it isn't an end user in economic terms.
The actual fraction of say a $100 tax might be split 33/33/34 or it might be split very differently.
It depends on how competitive the markets in which the corporation operates in, and how competitive the suppliers are, and the employees.
So a company like WalMart is incredibly competitive, dominates its sector, dominates its supplier *but* it makes sub 10% margins.
Any new tax on WalMart is passed through to its employees, its suppliers and its customers.
Any proposal to 'tax' corporations has to recognise this transparency.
In practice, what the US should have is a low rate of corporate income tax (I would argue 25% or lower) but *no* exemptions. This would have the least distorting effect on tax revenues, and might actually raise corporate tax revenues.
Good thoughts, tho' I'm not an economist enough to agree or disagree..
As long as the 'no exemptions' part doesn't just get painted as a 'new tax', I think this would have a prodigious effect.. almost a corporate Flat Tax. So in the same corner, do you have a take on a US policy direction that would also deal with the virtual 'offshoring' of corporations to avoid our taxes? Would it be better to have a policy DISincentive to being outside the border (ie, Tariffs and other int'l Trading costs?), or some other kind of INcentive to keep a firm flying the Stars and Stripes? Membership ought to have its priviledges..
Bob Fiske
Dave-I understand the new Congressional commitee on energy is skeptical of the CERA report, stating they felt Cera's use of USGS data was erroneous. Should get them a copy of your work. Sorry I don't recall/have the links, just I recall an AP wire story read yesterday.
These CERA-related stories were probably earmarked elsewhere here at TOD:
http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/new_world_order/bush_nazis.html
This could be worth some digging.
Oh boy...
http://www.nndb.com/people/460/000060280/
Now, where did I leave my tin foil hat?
I need a tin foil coat to go with my hat
The fact is who pays CERA's bills is quite relevant perhaps more so than the organization's claim for objectivity. These analysts are ultimately hired by corporations (often through industry trade groups)for one reason: to promote either the company(s) that hired them or the individual that signed the contract. CERA's job is to make petroleum-related industries and people look good. I didn't pay their way. Perhaps you have?
There is one maxim that will drive any successful political or business investigation: follow the money. I say do it.